What used to be Herman Gardens ...

**Meddle** · February-17-21, 10:27 AM

.... looks pretty nice now. Appears to be all new construction in the last 5-10 years. Lots of room for new places yet to be built too

What happened? Is it still city owned?

**Zacha341** · February-17-21, 10:33 AM

History: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Gardens

**royce** · February-17-21, 11:33 AM

At some point in the plans, the southeast corner of the Joy/Southfield Freeway intersection was to be developed with retail and the land along the Southfield Freeway was to be a huge pond. I don't know if either is still planned. Instead of a pond, however, a nice park with basketball and tennis courts would be nice. These HUD developments, Cornerstone Estates, and Woodbridge Estates for example, never build park space. There might be a "rest" area with a few benches but nothing like a picnic area or recreational area. You would think with a smaller amount of units being built than what was there before, that there would be room for parkland and maybe some retail.

**Meddle** · February-17-21, 12:00 PM

^^ That's one thing I noticed in the satellite pictures. There's a long greenspace right along the service drive with a wet spot in the middle, like maybe a pond area is being worked on.

**Meddle** · February-17-21, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

History: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Gardens

Damn, talk about propaganda.

"southeast corner of the Joy Road and Southfield Freeway intersection close to what was then termed "some of the most affluent neighborhoods in the City of Detroit." The Gardens were home to some notable individuals. Automobile giant John DeLorean, TV judge Greg Mathis, and classic Motown group The Spinners all called Herman Gardens home"

I remember that as one of the worst ghettos in the city. An area even the police didn't want to go alone.

**Zacha341** · February-17-21, 12:53 PM

^ Yep. That's wiki for you.... but at one point it was nice.

**LongGone06** · February-17-21, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

I remember that as one of the worst ghettos in the city. An area even the police didn't want to go alone.

Actually, I was talking to a very well regarded local attorney some years ago, who told me that he and his wife lived in Herman Gardens in the early 1950's when he was first admitted to practice law. He told a very similar story as that in Wikipedia. Much to my surprise, he said it was well cared for and safe, and that public housing was not viewed negatively in those days.

**Meddle** · February-17-21, 02:03 PM

I'm sure some could/would say that about Brewster and others as well.

But I can only speak for what I knew in the late 60s into the 70s.

**hybridy** · February-17-21, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

^^ That's one thing I noticed in the satellite pictures. There's a long greenspace right along the service drive with a wet spot in the middle, like maybe a pond area is being worked on.

That is a detention basin. It's there to capture stormwater in heavy rains so as to not overwhelm DWSD treatment system. DWSD mandates these in all large projects.

Regarding parks, there are small playscapes interspersed throughout and there will be central greenspace in the final build-out.

**royce** · February-17-21, 02:50 PM

So looking at the rendering [[see above) in the center of this development is all this greenspace. If you live in Manhattan, then it's a nice touch. However, for this kind of development with families, it just would make more sense to me if the greenspace was park space or used for picnic space. Woodbridge Estates has that same middle greenspace minus the "crown" looking area. I never see anyone in that area. Put some basketball courts there and kids have a place for activity. I know a lot of folks would find basketball courts to be problematic - noise, possible drugs deals, whatever. However, if you don't build recreation areas, then the kids have to go off site and can't be monitored by parents, especially young kids and pre-teens. Also, isn't the retention basin dangerous for a development that has children? Why can't the old way of collecting rain water work here?

**Meddle** · February-17-21, 02:58 PM

I just hope they can keep it looking as nice as what I saw in the streetview.

**hybridy** · February-17-21, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by royce

So looking at the rendering [[see above) in the center of this development is all this greenspace. If you live in Manhattan, then it's a nice touch. However, for this kind of development with families, it just would make more sense to me if the greenspace was park space or used for picnic space. Woodbridge Estates has that same middle greenspace minus the "crown" looking area. I never see anyone in that area. Put some basketball courts there and kids have a place for activity. I know a lot of folks would find basketball courts to be problematic - noise, possible drugs deals, whatever. However, if you don't build recreation areas, then the kids have to go off site and can't be monitored by parents, especially young kids and pre-teens. Also, isn't the retention basin dangerous for a development that has children? Why can't the old way of collecting rain water work here?

As mentioned, there are multiple playscapes integrated into several blocks at the rear of housing units accessible by sidewalks from all directions. I can't speak to basketball courts, but there is a Boys + Girls Club in the SE corner of the development + a school [[vacant). I imagine any of the duplex homes can add a hoop to their driveway.

I think the intent of a central green comes into play when the trees become more established. A central green can be used for a myriad of things: carnival, swap meet, kite flying, frisbee, football, soccer, picnic, sunbathing, walking, exercise, yoga etc. It's also low cost [[first cost + maintenance). You have to remember these are government low income projects, so there aren't grandiose budgets for these spaces with regard to equipment and maintenance.

Regarding detention ponds: they are meant to capture large amounts of runoff during 100-yr storms [[which are becoming more common) and then slowly release the water over time so as to not overwhelm systems after a large rain event. They are not intended to be "wet" ponds and remain dry most of the time. If they are retention ponds that remain wet they would require fencing for safety.

**Sehv313** · February-17-21, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by royce

I know a lot of folks would find basketball courts to be problematic - noise, possible drugs deals, whatever. However, if you don't build recreation areas, then the kids have to go off site and can't be monitored by parents, especially young kids and pre-teens.

In my neighborhood it's the opposite, most kids near the Sojourner houses play basketball and football to stay out of trouble, which is why the court was recently moved from the back of the park to the front right across from the housing development.

**Sehv313** · February-17-21, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by hybridy

That is a detention basin. It's there to capture stormwater in heavy rains so as to not overwhelm DWSD treatment system. DWSD mandates these in all large projects.

Regarding parks, there are small playscapes interspersed throughout and there will be central greenspace in the final build-out.

I swear they have been working on this development since Kwame was still in office while Emerald Springs [[old Buffalo Projects) started after and finished years ago.

**Dexlin** · February-17-21, 11:07 PM

I mean, they build this stuff as HUD grants become available and as need demands. Also, Emerald Springs is only 206 units; Gardenview is planned for over 600 units. These are not directly comparable.

**rickbak** · February-18-21, 09:30 PM

We moved from our old home on Pinehurst & West Chicago in '69 to new one on Ashton, block off Warren and Southfield. We knew folks who lived in the Gardens then and it was still pretty nice for public housing. A few years later [['76-77) I was driving a cab and most drivers didn't want to pick up there, but I never had any trouble. Another few years, though, the crack epidemic hit and the Gardens went totally to shit.

**missn** · February-24-21, 09:00 PM

So join Wikipedia and edit the article. Do some research and write the story of the bad old days. Be sure to quote sources.

**IrishSpartan** · February-25-21, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by Meddle

Damn, talk about propaganda.

"southeast corner of the Joy Road and Southfield Freeway intersection close to what was then termed "some of the most affluent neighborhoods in the City of Detroit." The Gardens were home to some notable individuals. Automobile giant John DeLorean, TV judge Greg Mathis, and classic Motown group The Spinners all called Herman Gardens home"

I remember that as one of the worst ghettos in the city. An area even the police didn't want to go alone.

Interesting since John DeLorean actually grew up on the east side around Dequindre and 6 Mile or E. McNichols if you prefer. Back in the day [[before 40's through late 60's) a significant amount of DPD and DFD personnel office lived just east of Greenfield between Joy and Tireman.