Belle [[?) Isle...

[tvaspen]

My wife and I and two other couples went biking on the riverfront and it was fantastic. We decided to ride around Belle Isle when we got there, we were less than impressed. The garbage left behind and strewn everywhere by the 'picknickers' was disgusting, it looked like a real mess. For the life of me I just can't understand how people can have such disregard for their surroundings. If you can't find a trash can, pack it up and throw it away at home for christ's sakes. Otherwise the riverfront was a treat and we will definately do it again, Belle Isle? No. And dinner at Andiamos afterwords on the patio was a real treat.

[iheartthed]

Cool story bro.

[TKshreve]

My wife and I and two other couples went biking on the riverfront and it was fantastic. We decided to ride around Belle Isle when we got there, we were less than impressed. The garbage left behind and strewn everywhere by the 'picknickers' was disgusting, it looked like a real mess. For the life of me I just can't understand how people can have such disregard for their surroundings. If you can't find a trash can, pack it up and throw it away at home for christ's sakes. Otherwise the riverfront was a treat and we will definately do it again, Belle Isle? No. And dinner at Andiamos afterwords on the patio was a real treat.

WTF did you expect? lol

You must have just moved here. Welcome

[corktownyuppie]

WTF did you expect? lol

You must have just moved here. Welcome

I'm with the OP on this. Belle Isle needs to change in order to become the state-wide attraction that it deserves to be. The riverfront has gotten much better in the last 10 years. I will say that in 5-10 years Belle Isle will be in significantly better shape.

[j to the jeremy]

Cool story bro.

[corktownyuppie]

It kills me that people are up in arms over a proposed $0.84 per month fee to use the park. That's $0.84 per month per carload. I mean, c'mon. If you can't afford the $0.84 per month...then let's sit down and re-prioritize where you spend your money or where Belle Isle should fall on your list of life concerns.

[Johnnny5]

My wife and I and two other couples went biking on the riverfront and it was fantastic. We decided to ride around Belle Isle when we got there, we were less than impressed. The garbage left behind and strewn everywhere by the 'picknickers' was disgusting, it looked like a real mess. For the life of me I just can't understand how people can have such disregard for their surroundings. If you can't find a trash can, pack it up and throw it away at home for christ's sakes. Otherwise the riverfront was a treat and we will definately do it again, Belle Isle? No. And dinner at Andiamos afterwords on the patio was a real treat.

If you think it's bad now stop by after this weekend.

[HistoryNotHisStory]

I saw the same thing when I went to Niagra Falls National Park.

Litter.

Keep America Beautiful people.

[SWMAP]

How odd. I go there every summer and I never noticed enough litter to remark on..

[kryptonite]

I used to volunteer for the annual Belle Isle cleanup that Friends of Belle Isle sponsored. i finally quit after another volunteer and I had picked up all kinds of trash in an area only to see a big car pull away and the POS driver had set Kentucky Fried chicken boxes, etc. right on the parking lot and drove off rather than take 10 seconds and get his *ss out of the car and put the KFC trash in a trash can. I thought why bother anymore, it was a wasted effort and let the slobs picnic in knee-deep trash for all I care.

I am all for an entrance fee to the island.

[Wheels]

This is just another example of how Detroit in general doesn't work. The laws are on the books. It's illegal to litter and fines are already established. Put a few police on bikes, on foot, on horseback and let them write tickets. If you don't pay up you loose your drivers license. They could pay their own salary and then some just in fines. Then you would have adequate police protection so normal humans could use the island too.

[Hypestyles]

This past weekend there was a group of mostly teens, organized by the ACCESS agency out of Dearborn, and they cleaned up much of the former Belle Isle Zoo. The Friends of Belle Isle/Consortium helped facilitate the effort..

[Whitehouse]

Just ask 2 dollars entry for pedestrians and 5 for cars. Cleaning the park is paid for, problem solved.

[Smirnoff]

City needs to sell the island immediately!

Why not turn it into an amusement park with a casino, horseback riding, canoe rental, zoo, aquarium, museum, basketball courts, conservatory, ice skating rink, concession stands, baseball diamonds, tennis courts, golfing, etc.....

Geez - just like it was in the past...............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mikeg19]

I actually went jogging on the Riverwalk as well yesterday. It was my first time on it, as well as the Dequnidre Cut and I must say I was very impressed. It was incredibly clean, people everywhere, cops patrolling. Everyone who was out was having a good time. I didn't venture all the way to Belle Isle because, well lets be honest, it's a mess. Unless the State takes over it'll remain that way. I hope that the Grand Prix has a crew out in full enforcement to clean that place up prior to the race, or all you'll see on tv is mounds of garbage. What a way to showcase the city!

[Wintersmommy]

My Daughter and I went to the island Sunday to support the plant sale at the greenhouses [[they have Great perennials and heirloom tomatoes at very reasonable prices) and when we were leaving we took a spin around the island. I couldn’t believe the amount of "camp" sites around where people just up and left the stuff laying where it fell...beyond disgusting and its to the point that decent families are going to stay away. We have enjoyed the island for picnics in the recent past and its not been so bad. It was a whole other level of filth, not like overflowing garbage bins..just like people who don’t give a fuck up and trashed the place and left. Who wants to spend time in a garbage heap??? Not I. Even my daughter commented that its was gross..at one point we were right next to the police station and she was like don’t they see it [[meaning the police) I said yes i am sure they do, apparently they don’t give a flip either
is an enterance fee going to fix peoples attitudes about littering? I think not. I just hope that it might provide enough money for people to be hired to pick up after the slobs.

[MSUguy]

In who's world doesn't a problem exisist? I was on BI Sunday and it looked like a dump, there needs to be dedicated cleaing crews like they have for the Riverwalk. Whether that money is raise through a fee or a through private donations something needs to change.

[corktownyuppie]

I hope you no one thinks I'm socking anything to the poor. I don't have anything against the poor. I have something against people littering in the park. The purpose of a nominal fee isn't to price people out of the park. It's to pay for people to keep it clean.

And seriously...if $0.84 per month is pricing anyone out from coming to the park, then they've got bigger problems to deal with.

[Detroitnerd]

I hope you don't think I'm socking anything to the poor. I don't have anything against the poor. I have something against people littering in the park. The purpose of a nominal fee isn't to price people out of the park. It's to pay for people to keep it clean.

And seriously...if $0.84 per month is pricing anyone out from coming to the park, then they've got bigger problems to deal with.

I love these plans for user fees. I have some news: They won't raise enough money to keep the park clean. You will have the whole bridge full of traffic with people waiting to be allowed, you will have to employ fulltime people to admit motorists, you will have angry motorists and police calls, and it will be totally ineffective at raising the funds to "help" clean the park.

If you don't like garbage lying around, why not go pick it up? Jesus. If not, the understaffed park employees will get to it.

Belle Isle Park is free for a reason. Detroiters used to sleep on the park at night because it was 10 degrees cooler. Detroit doesn't have a huge system of city parks. And when those poor families pile into the one working car they have and have a little picnic, that's about as good as it gets sometimes.

People of means have a limited understanding of just how punitive user fees are for the very poorest.

[corktownyuppie]

I love these plans for user fees. I have some news: They won't raise enough money to keep the park clean. You will have the whole bridge full of traffic with people waiting to be allowed, you will have to employ fulltime people to admit motorists, you will have angry motorists and police calls, and it will be totally ineffective at raising the funds to "help" clean the park.

If you don't like garbage lying around, why not go pick it up? Jesus. If not, the understaffed park employees will get to it.

Belle Isle Park is free for a reason. Detroiters used to sleep on the park at night because it was 10 degrees cooler. Detroit doesn't have a huge system of city parks. And when those poor families pile into the one working car they have and have a little picnic, that's about as good as it gets sometimes.

People of means have a limited understanding of just how punitive user fees are for the very poorest.

Or I could just go somewhere else where I don't have to deal with this nonsense. And that's why Belle Isle is a mess.

While you're championing the needs of the poor, the lower-middle, the middle, the upper-middle, and the upper-class are all saying, "Forget it. I'd just rather go somewhere else." And so what do they do? They spend a couple hundred dollars and travel to Chicago as tourists to enjoy Navy Pier.

Look I care about the poor, too. The problem is that if you care about them at the expense of everyone else, everyone else says, "Forget it. I'd just rather go somewhere else."

Believe it or not, I was actually with you until you said,

If you don't like garbage lying around, why not go pick it up?

I spend all day doing work for someone else. We all do. So when I go to the park, I don't want to have to pick up for someone who just didn't care to walk to the nearest trash can.

I understand how punitive user fees are for the very poorest. But the city cannot care for the poor WITHOUT MONEY. Who is punished the most by the uncontrollable crime in the city, the rich with their private security force and locked garages? Or the poor and middle class? Guess what...we don't have ENOUGH MONEY. Who is punished the most when recreation centers close? Is it the rich with their $40 Tiger tickets and tickets to the Fox Theater? Or is it the poor and the middle class? Guess what...we don't have ENOUGH MONEY.

We need money.
We need money.
We need more money.
We need a lot more money.
We need to stop wasting money.
We need to stop people from stealing money.


Money money money money money.

And so when you're telling me that we shouldn't charge people an $0.84 per month charge to use the park because some people can't afford it? I don't care. Not because I don't care about the poor. It's because I care about the poor. Because without attractive city services, there's no reason to live in the city. The people with money leave [[as they have) and the poor who are left have even less money to go around to help them. It's already a mess as it is, and this is coming from someone who grew up here and decided to move back.

Are you really telling me that when you weigh the happiness of 100 poor people that can't afford $0.84 per month vs. the $5,000 in taxes my roommate and I wrote to the city this year, you're choosing them over us?

I hate to be blunt, but this is the essential problem. Detroit can be divided into two groups of people, independent of race, gender, education, or ability. There are those who contribute more value than they receive. Then there are those who consume more value than they give.

We have not enough of the first, and way, way, way, way, way, way, way too much of the second.

[Detroitnerd]

Yeah, I'm sorry, Corktown. I fundamentally disagree with you on this. And, yeah, give a hoot and pitch in.

[Kevgoblue]

This is just another example of how Detroit in general doesn't work. The laws are on the books. It's illegal to litter and fines are already established. Put a few police on bikes, on foot, on horseback and let them write tickets. If you don't pay up you loose your drivers license. They could pay their own salary and then some just in fines. Then you would have adequate police protection so normal humans could use the island too.

Yeah, I tend not to go out to the island on a Sunday night / Monday morning either. The place looks like a mess!
Much like Hart Plaza does at the conclusion of the Hoedown!

[Detroitnerd]

Hell, don't take it from me that the poor are being squeezed harder and harder every day. Read this literate piece by Barbara Ehrenreich.

====================

At the local level though, government is increasingly opting to join in the looting. In 2009, a year into the Great Recession, I first started hearing complaints from community organizers about ever more aggressive levels of law enforcement in low-income areas. Flick a cigarette butt and get arrested for littering; empty your pockets for an officer conducting a stop-and-frisk operation and get cuffed for a few flakes of marijuana. Each of these offenses can result, at a minimum, in a three-figure fine.
And the number of possible criminal offenses leading to jail and/or fines has been multiplying recklessly. All across the country — from California and Texas to Pennsylvania — counties and municipalities have been toughening laws against truancy and ratcheting up enforcement, sometimes going so far as to handcuff children found on the streets during school hours. In New York City, it’s now a crime to put your feet up on a subway seat, even if the rest of the car is empty, and a South Carolina woman spent six days in jail when she was unable to pay a $480 fine for the crime of having a “messy yard.” Some cities — most recently, Houston and Philadelphia — have made it a crime to share food with indigent people in public places.


===============================

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/05/...g-on-the-poor/

And if you want police to ticket litterers, then they have to pay a whopping fine. Chances are that, if they can't pay it, they get a warrant for their arrest and have to pay a larger fine. So there's a good chance that people in dire straits could go to jail and lose a lot, all because you couldn't stand to wait a day or two for the park employees to pick up the garbage AS THEY'RE PAID TO DO.

Not a lot of thought goes into these things, but the default these days is -- since we can never, ever tax the rich, even if they got their loot in a criminal manner -- we're going to "get tough" on petty shit like littering.

Count me out.

[jcole]

Yeah, I tend not to go out to the island on a Sunday night / Monday morning either. The place looks like a mess!
Much like Hart Plaza does at the conclusion of the Hoedown!

Or used to look at the conclusion of Hoedown, because now it has become a pay only event at Comerica Park instead of a free event at Hart Plaza where people will be paid to clean up instead of garbage being left everywhere for someone else to clean up.

[Detroitnerd]

Yeah, I tend not to go out to the island on a Sunday night / Monday morning either. The place looks like a mess!
Much like Hart Plaza does at the conclusion of the Hoedown!

But those aren't careless litterers! Those are taxpaying people bringing business into town!