Census shows blacks moving to Macomb as more leave Detroit & Wayne County

**EASTSIDE CAT 67-83** · May-20-12, 11:37 PM

So I'll be the first to posit the elephant in the room, will the suburbs slowly follow the trend of white flight that occurred in Detroit during the 60's and 70's? With diversity comes change, will an increase in statistics with the influx of diversity [[code for African American) be the catalyst for white flight? I'd like to think that we have evolved beyond that but suspect human nature is what it is...

**adamjab19** · May-20-12, 11:49 PM

I don't mind having a full neighborhood of any color skin. Just take care of your house and keep your personal business inside your own walls!

**Red Devil** · May-21-12, 01:33 AM

Originally Posted by EASTSIDE CAT 67-83

So I'll be the first to posit the elephant in the room, will the suburbs slowly follow the trend of white flight that occurred in Detroit during the 60's and 70's? With diversity comes change, will an increase in statistics with the influx of diversity [[code for African American) be the catalyst for white flight? I'd like to think that we have evolved beyond that but suspect human nature is what it is...

Here's your answer:

http://www.schooldigger.com/go/MI/sc...61/school.aspx

Click on the "students" tab. However, is it based purely on race? I'd say no. Whites have been slowly "fleeing" Metro Detroit to job centers elsewhere in the country for some time now.

**Scottathew** · May-21-12, 09:13 AM

I live in the south-end of Warren. Recently we've had, as you say, "an influx of diversity". Along with many black families, we've also had many Bangladeshi families.

I don't think you'll see white flight, or at least not as much of it. I think the attitudes of many people have changed. Racism had greatly faded, and what's left will slowly fade out over the next 100 years.

I will be moving out of my neighborhood soon, but the primary reason is that I don't like Center Line schools. Their test scores are too low. We will be moving to a good school district before my oldest hits kindergarten.

The kids on my street play together, not just crossing boundaries of color, race, and religion, but rather ignoring those differences all together.

I wave and say hello to my Muslim neighbors, as they come back from their Mosque, and they wave and say hello to me when I come back from church. We know we're different; we just don't care, and it won't stop us from being friends or helping each other.

On the street where I live, a little bit south of 10 Mile Road, racism is dead.

**Chicago48** · May-21-12, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by Red Devil

Here's your answer:

http://www.schooldigger.com/go/MI/sc...61/school.aspx

Click on the "students" tab. However, is it based purely on race? I'd say no. Whites have been slowly "fleeing" Metro Detroit to job centers elsewhere in the country for some time now.

I live in CHicago [[exiled from Detroit in 1989) and there are a lot of Detroiters & Michiganders here. A lot! There's not a month that goes by that someone doesn't tell me they're from Michigan. It's because of jobs and the universities. Chicago has a LOT of universities. And it's all colors, but mainly whites who I meet.

**poobert** · May-21-12, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by EASTSIDE CAT 67-83

So I'll be the first to posit the elephant in the room, will the suburbs slowly follow the trend of white flight that occurred in Detroit during the 60's and 70's? With diversity comes change, will an increase in statistics with the influx of diversity [[code for African American) be the catalyst for white flight? I'd like to think that we have evolved beyond that but suspect human nature is what it is...

You damn well see flight, and lot's of it. The inner ring 'burbs will become the new Detroit.

It isn't really race anymore, though. Though anecdotal, as 48091 reported, most people don't care anymore, where as 50 years ago it would have provoked furor. It's class now.

You can buy a house in the inner ring suburbs or nicer areas of Detroit for virtually nothing. There was an article a while back about longtime middle class black Southfield residents pissed off that low class black Detroiters were moving in and screwing up their neighborhoods. You don't really need much money to live in most places in Metro Detroit so you've got people moving from the 'hood who don't know how to live in a "neighborhood".

Most of these people are just fine folks and want a better life but bring with them all the problems of the ghetto. Yelling down the street, grilling on the front porch, basketball in the street, couch on the porch, tons of family members staying at the house all the time, working on cars in the street, poor conflict resolution. Nobody wants to deal with that next door. Even if they're good neighbors they often lack the resources to maintain aging housing stock. Every time I drive through the inner ring suburbs the houses look shabbier and shabbier, and mostly not for lack of care, just that postwar construction was not built to last, and a lot of it is over 50 years old now [[with no good materials or architectural merit, though).

This also isn't limited to one race, it just happens that Detroit is overwhelmingly black now. You see the same kind of behavior from the hillbillies still sprinkled around Southwest.

You can accuse me of being anti-poor or whatever but on the contrary, there hasn't been any decent education, jobs, or access to jobs for these folks. They're trying to make their way as we all are but have never been given decent opportunity in the past.

The nicer areas of Detroit such as where I live [[which are all majority black) have been dealing with this for a while now. First with all the bogus lending practices and now rock-bottom housing prices and you have clashes with new residents who don't understand the culture of the old ones.

It's also pretty telling why 48091 is moving. The schools aren't great, which is a common reason. Well if you're coming from DPS they are - which a lot of people are now. Then you're going to have a bunch of kids who are byproducts of DPS in all the worst ways entering a new school district they're not prepared for...see how this can keep getting worse? Again, I don't mean to knock DPS or DPS students. I know this doesn't apply to anywhere near most. It's just a proven fact that DPS has failed to educate or provide a safe environment for students.

**Wesley Mouch** · May-21-12, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by EASTSIDE CAT 67-83

So I'll be the first to posit the elephant in the room, will the suburbs slowly follow the trend of white flight that occurred in Detroit during the 60's and 70's? With diversity comes change, will an increase in statistics with the influx of diversity [[code for African American) be the catalyst for white flight? I'd like to think that we have evolved beyond that but suspect human nature is what it is...

Of course.But I think viewing it as 'white flight' is over-simplification. Sure -- whites fled. But at the same time so were blacks fleeing the inner-city. Certainly some of it was 'flight', and a lot of it was just 'sprawl' -- moving up and out to the American Dream -- a bigger house in a better neighborhood.

**detroitmale** · May-22-12, 08:48 AM

Good!!!!! Let them leave. Most of which are the problem anyway. Let them leave and let's attract more professional, intelligent residents to the city.

**Bham1982** · May-22-12, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by detroitmale

Good!!!!! Let them leave. Most of which are the problem anyway. Let them leave and let's attract more professional, intelligent residents to the city.

Uh, you do realize that many blacks are "professional" and "intelligent", right?

And the median income of blacks leaving Detroit is much higher than the median income of blacks staying. You're losing the middle class base, and the poor are staying.

**Wheels** · May-22-12, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by poobert

You damn well see flight, and lot's of it. The inner ring 'burbs will become the new Detroit.

It isn't really race anymore, though. Though anecdotal, as 48091 reported, most people don't care anymore, where as 50 years ago it would have provoked furor. It's class now.

You can buy a house in the inner ring suburbs or nicer areas of Detroit for virtually nothing. There was an article a while back about longtime middle class black Southfield residents pissed off that low class black Detroiters were moving in and screwing up their neighborhoods. You don't really need much money to live in most places in Metro Detroit so you've got people moving from the 'hood who don't know how to live in a "neighborhood".

Most of these people are just fine folks and want a better life but bring with them all the problems of the ghetto. Yelling down the street, grilling on the front porch, basketball in the street, couch on the porch, tons of family members staying at the house all the time, working on cars in the street, poor conflict resolution. Nobody wants to deal with that next door. Even if they're good neighbors they often lack the resources to maintain aging housing stock. Every time I drive through the inner ring suburbs the houses look shabbier and shabbier, and mostly not for lack of care, just that postwar construction was not built to last, and a lot of it is over 50 years old now [[with no good materials or architectural merit, though).

This also isn't limited to one race, it just happens that Detroit is overwhelmingly black now. You see the same kind of behavior from the hillbillies still sprinkled around Southwest.

You can accuse me of being anti-poor or whatever but on the contrary, there hasn't been any decent education, jobs, or access to jobs for these folks. They're trying to make their way as we all are but have never been given decent opportunity in the past.

The nicer areas of Detroit such as where I live [[which are all majority black) have been dealing with this for a while now. First with all the bogus lending practices and now rock-bottom housing prices and you have clashes with new residents who don't understand the culture of the old ones.

It's also pretty telling why 48091 is moving. The schools aren't great, which is a common reason. Well if you're coming from DPS they are - which a lot of people are now. Then you're going to have a bunch of kids who are byproducts of DPS in all the worst ways entering a new school district they're not prepared for...see how this can keep getting worse? Again, I don't mean to knock DPS or DPS students. I know this doesn't apply to anywhere near most. It's just a proven fact that DPS has failed to educate or provide a safe environment for students.

Very well said! The last paragraph was my exact thought when the lower test scores were mentioned. Made me think all is remarks about not feeling racism slipped away when he revealed this.

Buy American · May-22-12, 10:03 AM

I can't help but remember a couple of older ladies who lived on my block in the 7 Mile and Hayes area over 45 years ago. They would come out every morning, in their housecoats, with a broom, and sweep the street in front of their homes, sweep the sidewalk and go back inside. It was a ritual for them and we all followed their lead and kept our block clean and litter free, otherwise, we'd suffer their wrath.

As soon as the "influx of diversity" [[as some on this forum are using that term) started moving in, the old ladies left out of complete fear and the rest of us stayed until we could no longer cope. I stayed until retirement because I was forced to live within the City limits and had no choice. It's just hard to comprehend why the majority of us live like human beings, respecting each other, keeping our homes and surroundings clean and neat, while others come in and shit where they live and live in the shit.

**Blueidone** · May-22-12, 11:24 AM

This is nothing new. Racial diversity hit Macomb County a long time ago. I lived there for over 30 years and watched it change. Particularly when housing prices dropped and interest rates were low, but even before that.

There is a whole psychology to why some people do not take care of their property. This happens not only to blacks, but to any race who is impoverished. Partially, it is due to the fact that in many cases, they do not own the property and have no hope of ever owning it. Add to that an "absentee" landlord who doesn't check on the property and insist that it be kept up.

Part of that stems from the court system in Wayne County Landlord Tenant Court, which is VERY pro-tenant. It is extremely difficult to evict a tenant for anything but non-payment of rent...and even that isn't simple. Even in Macomb County, it can sometimes be diffiult.

It's a vicious cycle that just keeps going round and round. Owners to are either absent or unwilling to force upkeep for various reasons. Renters who don't care when landlords don't care. Owners who don't care because their property is only worth a fraction of what they paid for it and they will never recoup their money. Owners who have lost their jobs and income and don't have the financial ability to keep it up.

Sweeping a street is one thing, but what's the point of sweeping the street in front of a house where the roof is caving in or the porch is falling off? Or where the house next door is a burned-out hulk?

It's a combination of many ills...there is not one answer.

**Rolfsy** · May-22-12, 11:59 AM

[QUOTE=Buy American;320963]I can't help but remember a couple of older ladies who lived on my block in the 7 Mile and Hayes area over 45 years ago. They would come out every morning, in their housecoats, with a broom, and sweep the street in front of their homes, sweep the sidewalk and go back inside. It was a ritual for them and we all followed their lead and kept our block clean and litter free, otherwise, we'd suffer their wrath.
QUOTE]

And these ladies' grandchildren, getting near retirement age now, get to repeat this sad story as it turns from 'Sterile Whites' to 'Startled Whites'.

I love how not-racist this region is. I love that no matter how nice an area is, my amazing white cohorts will drop it the hot minute a few new faces show up. I'm so glad I finally broke down and invested in a house here, so that one day I can find myself retired in a warzone.

**SWMAP** · May-22-12, 12:28 PM

When Hamtramck was filled with recent immigrants from eastern Europe, packed in with people in little frame flats, that city looked like a polished copper penny.

Now enablers here say that Detroit looks the shameful way it does because poor people, landlords, etc are hopeless. So maybe the porch is falling in. Still, for the sake of the children, pick up, clean up, sweep, polish, open the curtains to let light in, wash the glass, take the filthy sofa off the porch, sweep the gutter and pick up litter. Children cannot grow proud, despite the rhetoric, growing up in filth, litter and chaos. A deep, deep shame in young people is the price of parental carelessness.

Buy American · May-22-12, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

When Hamtramck was filled with recent immigrants from eastern Europe, packed in with people in little frame flats, that city looked like a polished copper penny.

Now enablers here say that Detroit looks the shameful way it does because poor people, landlords, etc are hopeless. So maybe the porch is falling in. Still, for the sake of the children, pick up, clean up, sweep, polish, open the curtains to let light in, wash the glass, take the filthy sofa off the porch, sweep the gutter and pick up litter. Children cannot grow proud, despite the rhetoric, growing up in filth, litter and chaos. A deep, deep shame in young people is the price of parental carelessness.

Well said. Enablers is the best word you could have used.

**Det_ard** · May-22-12, 12:44 PM

It's cultural [[not racial, not ethnic, not class-based). To acknowledge that is very un-PC. No one wants to talk about different values. Especially if one set is seen as better than another.

**Wesley Mouch** · May-22-12, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by Buy American

I can't help but remember a couple of older ladies who lived on my block in the 7 Mile and Hayes area over 45 years ago. They would come out every morning, in their housecoats, with a broom, and sweep the street in front of their homes, sweep the sidewalk and go back inside. It was a ritual for them and we all followed their lead and kept our block clean and litter free, otherwise, we'd suffer their wrath.

As soon as the "influx of diversity" [[as some on this forum are using that term) started moving in, the old ladies left out of complete fear and the rest of us stayed until we could no longer cope. I stayed until retirement because I was forced to live within the City limits and had no choice. It's just hard to comprehend why the majority of us live like human beings, respecting each other, keeping our homes and surroundings clean and neat, while others come in and shit where they live and live in the shit.

This story, and poobert's great post tell much real truth about what's really going on.

So stop the chat about racism and get to work fixing the behavior of scum of all races.

Frankly, when the race card gets played, the response by the accused is 'flee'. What are your other choices when your efforts are stymied by judgement based on race.

**SWMAP** · May-22-12, 01:21 PM

Yes? Are we college freshmen in a diversity education class where a label of racist is is the most terrifying thing?

We are in the real world. Racist labels, when eyes can not be deceived and experience discounted, just cause the accused to walk away.

**trotwood** · May-23-12, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by adamjab19

I don't mind having a full neighborhood of any color skin. Just take care of your house and keep your personal business inside your own walls!

ICAM with you......&48091 and Poobert.

**Danny** · May-23-12, 09:02 AM

Yes the 2010 Census made it clear. The Black population in Macomb County is growing faster then black folks moving into Oakland County. Eastpointe now has a small Black community from Gratiot Ave. to Kelly Rd. from Toepfer St to E. 8 Mile Rd. There are mostly middle income blacks coming from Detroit's East Side area get get away from the madness, mayhem, violent street crime coming from low-income black folks. Middle class blacks want better neighborhoods, better housing, execellent public, private, parochial or charter schools. They want better police protection, safety and security for their children and themselves. Moving to the suburbs would provide those requirements. Not just Eastpointe that middle income black families are moving, but also to Warren, Sterling Heights, Roseville, Clinton TWP and some still hanging in Mt. Clemens. Al long as Detroit and its black and blighted ghettoes continue to suffer under the doom and gloom coming from po'folks, schizos, mutants, wierdos and brothers killing brothers along with poor police,fire depts and corrupt city council and other plantation politics. Blacks will continue to leave Detroit to suburbs or any other U.S. city until a community change would happen. [[ Not in a 100 years)

**Hypestyles** · May-24-12, 12:20 AM

more multicultural diversity needed, on both sides of 8 mile..

**EASTSIDE CAT 67-83** · May-24-12, 10:34 AM

Hypestyles, could you explain to us all why "multicultural diversity" is "needed"? Is something missing on both sides of 8 mile as you state, what is the benefit to the current residents, is it going to help the economy, sounds like you are into the whole social engineering thing.

**Scottathew** · May-24-12, 10:54 AM

I would say that what we need is less invisible economic dividing lines, like 8-Mile, that separate those that have, and those that have not.

However, the issue is that many folks that have the ability to live in places other than Detroit, will take that option, leaving only those that have not a choice.

While this thread is titled about the possible white-flight from inner-ring suburbs, the real issue is the black-flight that has been happening in Detroit. As black families start to gain wealth and capitalize on opportunities, they are fleeing Detroit. There is nothing wrong with that, as it makes sense for folks to do what's best for their families.

1. Fix the schools
2. Fix the police
3. Get rid of the gangs

**Wesley Mouch** · May-24-12, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by Danny

Yes the 2010 Census made it clear. The Black population in Macomb County is growing faster then black folks moving into Oakland County. Eastpointe now has a small Black community from Gratiot Ave. to Kelly Rd. from Toepfer St to E. 8 Mile Rd. There are mostly middle income blacks coming from Detroit's East Side area get get away from the madness, mayhem, violent street crime coming from low-income black folks. Middle class blacks want better neighborhoods, better housing, execellent public, private, parochial or charter schools. They want better police protection, safety and security for their children and themselves. Moving to the suburbs would provide those requirements. Not just Eastpointe that middle income black families are moving, but also to Warren, Sterling Heights, Roseville, Clinton TWP and some still hanging in Mt. Clemens. Al long as Detroit and its black and blighted ghettoes continue to suffer under the doom and gloom coming from po'folks, schizos, mutants, wierdos and brothers killing brothers along with poor police,fire depts and corrupt city council and other plantation politics. Blacks will continue to leave Detroit to suburbs or any other U.S. city until a community change would happen. [[ Not in a 100 years)

That make sense.

Macomb is a relatively new destination for blacks. So the rate of increase there is high.

Detroit's NE side was pretty stable until about 5-7 years ago -- so there was little reason to move. But as the area deteriorates, the motivation to 'follow the road' out to greener pastures increases. Oakland on the other hand already saw that out-migration years ago.

I think its also a reflection of the increasing acceptance of 'diversity' in the suburbs. Years ago, the warmth of the Jewish community towards blacks allowed migration to Southfield and Oak Park. But the more Italian/Polish Macomb County was less welcoming.

The new generation of Macomb County residents are more enlightened than their parents.

Our future is fewer Greektowns and Africantowns -- and more 'diversity' -- until there is no diversity -- just people.

Buy American · May-24-12, 11:37 AM

For decades, Detroit's politicians have blamed the woes of the City on whites and "white flight". Now, with the black population deserting Detroit for the same reasons whites left, who will they blame? It will be very interesting indeed.