A Hotel for downtown Royal Oak?

**Lowell** · May-15-12, 12:55 PM

If so, it kind marks the completion of the transition of Royal Oak from sleepy declining village center thru artsy-hip comeback to full establishment.

The Southfield-based real estate brokerage CBRE Group Inc. is shopping plans for an eight-story hotel on Main Street in Royal Oak to the city's Downtown Development Authority to gauge its interest in the project.

Preliminary plans call for redevelopment of the former Jim Fresard Pontiac-Buick-GMC auto dealership at 400 N. Main St.

In addition to the hotel, the project would have a banquet facility and five-story mixed-use development with apartments and retail, according to the plan, submitted to members of the DDA to provide context before their Wednesday meeting.

from Crain's

**Radiogoon** · May-15-12, 01:11 PM

The property isn't big enough for all they are proposing...unless of course they ditch the parking garage.

**Bham1982** · May-15-12, 01:24 PM

I don't think this project makes much financial sense, but who knows.

There's definitely already too many hotel rooms in this region, and plenty of cheap, available rooms along the Woodward corridor in Oakland County.

**Baselinepunk** · May-15-12, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Lowell

If so, it kind marks the completion of the transition of Royal Oak from sleepy declining village center thru artsy-hip comeback to full establishment.

I don't think it will happen. Could but using the recent shit fest over the Kroger that was going to go in there, I don't think the surrounding residents want to lose their sense of place.

I know it's not a Kroger but it's still a behemoth.

**Detroitnerd** · May-15-12, 01:26 PM

Let's just keep building redundant downtowns. What could be wrong with that?

**daddeeo** · May-15-12, 01:47 PM

The senior citizen building is right behind there. I have a feeling they won't be too happy about this. They have enough drunken revelers there now.
That would also make traffic even worse.

**mikeg19** · May-15-12, 04:23 PM

Apartments? Yes. Hotel? With the abundance of them in the general 10 mile radius, No. Retail? Hell No! Maybe they should look at the apartment tower DIRECTLY NEXT TO THIS LOCATION! There hasn't been street front ground level retail there in, oh, I don't know, forever? I'm not sure why this is, the building is nice, but I really don't get that part of it.

**Scottathew** · May-15-12, 05:26 PM

This would be cool. Hopefully it has retail on ground level. It would start a significant develop of downtown north of 11 Mile.

Royal Oak is doing stuff right. They offer an "urban-lite" lifestyle with good schools and good city services.

**dtowncitylover** · May-15-12, 05:41 PM

If you know Royal Oak well, then you would know the need for a decent hotel has been wanted forever. Those motels along Woodward and the Travelodge at Coolidge and Woodward were never enough and always those kinds of establishments. Maybe with a hotel, therefore extra foot traffic, the retail spaces at the lofts will be filled up.

The Daily Tribune has a better article on the plan.

http://www.dailytribune.com/article/...car-dealership

**RO_Resident** · May-15-12, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by Baselinepunk

I don't think it will happen. Could but using the recent shit fest over the Kroger that was going to go in there, I don't think the surrounding residents want to lose their sense of place.

I know it's not a Kroger but it's still a behemoth.

I got the feeling that the resistance to the Kroger had more to do with Hollywood and Holiday Markets having a national chain invade their turf.

I don't know if a hotel is the best use of that space, either.

**Scottathew** · May-15-12, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by RO_Resident

I got the feeling that the resistance to the Kroger had more to do with Hollywood and Holiday Markets having a national chain invade their turf.

I don't know if a hotel is the best use of that space, either.

I agree with the resistance of a Kroger from a planning perspective. I would much rather see a hotel with retail on the ground level and perhaps a smaller Manhattan-style grocery store [[if there's a need for grocery in the area).

A Kroger store is contrary to what they've been developing.

On a side-note, my first job was at Hollywood Supermarket, although it was the one in Troy.

**douglasm** · May-15-12, 06:38 PM

Might be an OK idea. I like the mixed use element, but I wonder a bit what their market might be. I'll grant you it's been a long time since I've lived in the area, but I look at it in the same light as putting a hotel on the fringes of downtown Ferndale. I can't really see wht the draw would be.....is downtown Royal Oak that much of a tourist attraction?......and have a hard time figuring out how they would make it work.

**rb336** · May-15-12, 06:57 PM

it's ugly, uninspired, blah. An upscale hotel IS needed in Royal Oak, but can't they make it look decent?

**iheartthed** · May-15-12, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by rb336

it's ugly, uninspired, blah. An upscale hotel IS needed in Royal Oak, but can't they make it look decent?

Why is an upscale hotel needed in Royal Oak?

**Bham1982** · May-15-12, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

If you know Royal Oak well, then you would know the need for a decent hotel has been wanted forever.

Wanted? Yes

Economically feasible? Probably no

Royal Oak was begging hotel operators to build on the I-696 site, and had no takers. The [[formerly decent) Woodward motels are mostly hooker havens.

And there was a mid-priced [[and decent) Birmingham hotel that was just demolished, right on Woodward.

There are just too many hotels in Metro Detroit. Half the hotels in Southfield are empty, the best downtown hotels go for $60-$70 if you know when to go [[and what to say), and overall vacancy rates are way above the national average.

**DLife** · May-15-12, 09:11 PM

It should help support business travellers going to visit companies in RO/Ferndale--plus I see expanded office space be the driver of the remaining vacant lots in RO the next 10 years. The restaurant craze I hope is finally coming to an end.

**JBMcB** · May-15-12, 09:46 PM

Makes sense. The only decent hotels in the area are up Woodward towards Birmingham, or out in Troy. I think, with the businesses in the downtown area, and the light industrial scattered around the area, a quality, small hotel should be pretty viable.

**DTWflyer** · May-15-12, 10:01 PM

There really are not a lot of decent hotels in that area of town.

The closest options include:
-Hooker Havens/ Transient dives along Woodward
-The hotels on Stephenson Hwy near Oakland Mall [[they work but not great)
-Troy Marriott
-Southfield hotels
-Townsend [[pricey)

There seems to a lot people in the Royal Oak / Berkely / Ferndale area that have friends & family come to visit but they end up staying in some suburban hotel in a sea of parking lots. Is there demand for a hotel in walkable downtown Royal Oak? Perhaps.

The question is what crowd would it cater to?

**southen** · May-16-12, 06:05 AM

i like that it adds density. although not my scene, royal oak has a very active restaurant scene and nightlife which will definitely be a draw for visitors. throw in the fact that the city is extremely walkable and i think the potential is there for a very successful hotel.

**cramerro** · May-16-12, 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Wanted? Yes

Economically feasible? Probably no

Royal Oak was begging hotel operators to build on the I-696 site, and had no takers. The [[formerly decent) Woodward motels are mostly hooker havens.

And there was a mid-priced [[and decent) Birmingham hotel that was just demolished, right on Woodward.

There are just too many hotels in Metro Detroit. Half the hotels in Southfield are empty, the best downtown hotels go for $60-$70 if you know when to go [[and what to say), and overall vacancy rates are way above the national average.

The hotel you speak of [[I'm assuming) was the one on the southeast corner of Maple and Woodward, which was demolished [[and packaged with other parcels) with an approved plan for a 10-story Hampton Inn hotel in hand. I think the financing has hit a rough patch since the approvals were pre-recession, but it was not knocked down for lack of business, per se. There is also an approved plan for a luxury hotel on the northwest corner of that same intersection. Draw your 10 or 5 mile radius at Royal Oak... there isn't much to choose from above true motels. A few out in Southfield, some Birmingham, some Troy, but Royal Oak and environs would be well-served. Also good access to downtown Detroit.

**Bham1982** · May-16-12, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by cramerro

The hotel you speak of [[I'm assuming) was the one on the southeast corner of Maple and Woodward, which was demolished [[and packaged with other parcels) with an approved plan for a 10-story Hampton Inn hotel in hand. I think the financing has hit a rough patch since the approvals were pre-recession, but it was not knocked down for lack of business, per se.

You're right that it wasn't knocked down for lack of business, but it was closed for lack of business, which eventually led to demolition.

And yes, there are two potential hotel sites in downtown Birmingham, but neither has moved forward, because they can't get financing [[which is directly tied to anticipated demand; hotel financing is very available for strong projects).

So if these two Birmingham projects can't get started, I would surprised if the Royal Oak one had strong prospects. Again, there are too many rooms in the area. High rise hotels sit totally vacant a few miles west, in Southfield.

**rb336** · May-16-12, 07:24 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

You're right that it wasn't knocked down for lack of business, but it was closed for lack of business, which eventually led to demolition.

It was an outdated dive of a hotel by the time it closed. I recall it being closed a couple of times for health code issues

**cramerro** · May-16-12, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

You're right that it wasn't knocked down for lack of business, but it was closed for lack of business, which eventually led to demolition.

And yes, there are two potential hotel sites in downtown Birmingham, but neither has moved forward, because they can't get financing [[which is directly tied to anticipated demand; hotel financing is very available for strong projects).

So if these two Birmingham projects can't get started, I would surprised if the Royal Oak one had strong prospects. Again, there are too many rooms in the area. High rise hotels sit totally vacant a few miles west, in Southfield.

If there was such a glut of hotel rooms, why would they spend considerable time developing the project? Why would the two Birmingham sites have spent a LOT of time and money developing proposals and getting City approvals?

One, just because you can't get financing in an era of the most restrictive lending market in 50 years does not prove a point about hotel room demand.

Two, the fact that you and others are lumping together "hotel rooms" into one pool demonstrates a total lack of knowledge about hotels. Three and four-star hotel customers do not defer to one-star accomodations when there are none better... they find somewhere else to go. There are few middle-upper and upper-end hotel offerings in the metro area, including Oakland County. This also applies to your connection between Birmingham high-end hotel plans being proven foolish by the vacant 60-year-old Holiday Inn on Telegraph [[see below for more).

Three, the only "high-rise" hotel in Southfield that I know of vacant is the former Holiday Inn, which was bought by an investor who then fleeced the entire staff and reserved guests for their money when he up and left one day. Someone who worked there told me they were booked at about 80% on weekends for the next few months as of the time he ditched and ran.

This hotel in RO and the ones in Birmingham are very attractive sites, that provide a great location for business travelers and tourists. There is a lot to do nearby in a walkable setting, and easy quick access to Downtown, the Palace, and other destinations. Businesspeople are in business to make money... not to say that people don't make stupid assumptions but who are you to say there is no demand for new hotels in the area? I say this is an exciting proposal, and more input should be sought on the design and plans for the former showroom... at least a street wall and maybe a caonpy or something connecting the sidewalk/street with the building would make a big difference.

**Bham1982** · May-16-12, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by rb336

It was an outdated dive of a hotel by the time it closed. I recall it being closed a couple of times for health code issues

And that's exactly my point.

If there were demand, it wouldn't have deteriorated to an "outdated dive".

If there were demand, the Woodward motels wouldn't be sleazy.

If there were demand, 30-year-old Southfield highrise hotels wouldn't sit empty.

Yeah, you could build a Royal Oak hotel, but it would be a zero sum game. Maybe the Holiday Inn Select in Birmingham closes.

**Bham1982** · May-16-12, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by cramerro

If there was such a glut of hotel rooms, why would they spend considerable time developing the project? Why would the two Birmingham sites have spent a LOT of time and money developing proposals and getting City approvals?

Wait, what? You're saying that, in a market economy, all participants automatically act rationally?

Highland Park built something like 100 single family homes in the last few years. Most sit abandoned, and those occupied have almost no market value.

Dubai built 100 floor buildings that sit empty, artificial islands sinking into the Gulf, and even planned an underwater hotel. Should we take these projects as face value demand?