Fox 2 News Poll; Should Marijuana Be Legal?

[Sstashmoo]

Would you say THC is a harmless drug? It's considered a mind altering drug. i.e. long term effects. Batson, what say you?

[Thames]

No drug is harmless. What's your point?

[Detroitej72]

The main reason pot will stay illegal is because the alcohol and tobacco companies have deep pockets, and are able to pay lobbyists major dollars to protect their interests.

[Detroitej72]

Would you say THC is a harmless drug? It's considered a mind altering drug. i.e. long term effects. Batson, what say you?

THC is no worse than alcohol. Both kill brain cells, both alter the mind and alcohol can make folks violent. The big difference is booze is big business and is seen a socially acceptable.

[Blarf]

The logical extension of your argument is that since I support following all laws, I must be responsible for every law enforcement officer ever killed in the line of duty. It baffles me how liberals can boycott Walmart or tuna, but never think of boycotting killers. Drug dealers kill people and threaten people.

I'll state a more direct question for the thing I'm trying to understand in your argument. If pot were legalized, what do you honestly think a pot dealer will do for a living?

Who's a liberal?

The "war on drugs" goes against the ideas of conservatism, unless you like Big Government stepping in and telling you what you can and can't put into your own body.

[mjs]

but we do know he won't be selling illegal drugs.

I couldn't disagree more. I know the pharmaceutical company that would manufacture legalized marijuana wouldn't want him as a salesman to their distributors anymore than the guy would want a legal job if they did offer it. You buy your cigarettes, aspirin, prescrition drugs, or beer from a guy on the corner? A drug dealer won't accept a legal job and all he knows is the drug world so he'll simply move to coke or heroin or stolen pharms or whatever. Legalizing drugs is one thing, but painting drug dealers as freedom fighters is delusional. They fuck people over for money because having a real job is too much effort for them.

the "war on drugs" is a massive failure and a massive waste of resources. continuing to do the same thing thinking there will be a different outcome is a definition of...[[come on gang! you know the answer)

So are you saying to legalize marijuana or all drugs or all crime? I think its successful if crime is lower with enforcement than without. In the mid-eighties, we spent more on fighting coccaine and use went down. We keep on arresting murderers, but every year people get murdered so since its higher than zero we must be losing and should simply legalize it. While I'm at it I might as well quit mowing my lawn and washing my clothes. No matter how many resources I put into it, the grass keeps growing back and the clothes keep getting dirty. I must be an idiot for thinking mowing my lawn is ever going to get me somewhere.

[Lorax]

The logical extension of your argument is that since I support following all laws, I must be responsible for every law enforcement officer ever killed in the line of duty. It baffles me how liberals can boycott Walmart or tuna, but never think of boycotting killers. Drug dealers kill people and threaten people.

I'll state a more direct question for the thing I'm trying to understand in your argument. If pot were legalized, what do you honestly think a pot dealer will do for a living?

What sort of backward logic is this? Boycotting killers? Are you serious? The whole argument is that if marijuana was legal, you'd erase the market for selling it. Provided individuals were allowed to grow it and use it without penalty.

Problem with this socitey, is making it legal means making it illegal for individuals to grow it.

Corporate America would be lobbying to grow it on industrial farms, outlawing individuals from growing it. It would be another exclusive product open for taxation, and highly priced for medical use.

Either way, it's a loser for the individual. There is no way corporate America will allow such a huge market stay open to the public.

[mjs]

The "war on drugs" goes against the ideas of conservatism, unless you like Big Government stepping in and telling you what you can and can't put into your own body.

You're just pulling my leg right? Or are you smoking right now? According to a Gallup Poll. . .


http://www.gallup.com/poll/19561/who...alization.aspx

I'm a libertarian, so if asked to vote on legalization, I'd vote yes, but I definently wouldn't have any delusions that crime will go down, pot dealers will get jobs, prices will go down, or that dealers aren't going to continue to be lazy assholes that will screw over their own mother for the right price. If it were legalized, I wouldn't support legalization unless drug taxes paid 100% of treatment and increased health care costs for users, employers could deny users employment, insurers could increase users premiums, and users would still face the same penalties if they damage property, injure someone, or kill someone while under the influence.

[mjs]

Problem with this socitey, is making it legal means making it illegal for individuals to grow it.

You keep comparing it to prescription drugs and alcohol. For legitimate safety reasons, home made drugs and moon shine are illegal. Like tobacco and alcohol, marijuana use will have costs so it should be taxed. If we were both employers, I'd definently let you have the pot heads you fight so dearly for. I like my workers motivated so don't force any stoners on me.

[Lorax]

You keep comparing it to prescription drugs and alcohol. For legitimate safety reasons, home made drugs and moon shine are illegal. Like tobacco and alcohol, marijuana use will have costs so it should be taxed. If we were both employers, I'd definently let you have the pot heads you fight so dearly for. I like my workers motivated so don't force any stoners on me.

As if whether or not people make it, grow it, or buy it is finally the point.

Liquor is cheap, and readily available, your workers no doubt will be tipping back during the work day, and you won't know it, unless of course they're stinking drunk!

Any addicted person who has been doing it for some time is usually pretty good at hiding it.

Employers drug test now, perhaps we should add alcohol to that testing, so if their levels are too high, send them home. Deal with firing them later.

[WolverinesA2]

If it were legalized, I wouldn't support legalization unless drug taxes paid 100% of treatment and increased health care costs for users,

No one has ever overdosed on marijuana. EVER. Studies done on rats show that the lethal dose for cannabis is about 1250 mg/kg. So for humans, to die from smoking pot, you'd have to smoke about 1500 pounds of pot within a 15 minute span to get a lethal dose.

[Lorax]

What the fascist right is most afraid of in legalizing marijuana is the simple fact that marijuana pacifies people, and is a claming drug.

No one ever started a revolution, or was predisposed to joining the military if they are regular pot smokers.

It would take Big Pharma some time to figure out how to grow it on corporate ranches, market it, sell it, and keep others from growing their own pot plant.

[Blarf]

You're just pulling my leg right? Or are you smoking right now? According to a Gallup Poll. . .


http://www.gallup.com/poll/19561/who...alization.aspx

No, I haven't smoked a few weeks.

Whoever would votes to keep pot illegal while claiming to be a conservative is confused.

Conservatives are for smaller government and personal liberties, am I right? Supporting big government that steps in [[epically on a federal level) and decides what we can't put into out bodies goes against these ideas.

And on a side note, I'm more in favor of decriminalizing than legalizing.

[Detroitej72]

If we were both employers, I'd definently let you have the pot heads you fight so dearly for. I like my workers motivated so don't force any stoners on me.

How would you feel about your employees coming to work hung over and doing a lousy job since they are sick from legal booze?

[mjs]

Liquor is cheap, and readily available, your workers no doubt will be tipping back during the work day, and you won't know it, unless of course they're stinking drunk!

Any addicted person who has been doing it for some time is usually pretty good at hiding it.

Employers drug test now, perhaps we should add alcohol to that testing, so if their levels are too high, send them home. Deal with firing them later.

Our guys used to. Now we have real management. We are expected to routinely check up on our subordinates and contractors and watch their eyes, speech, and behavior. Management can and has been fired when something occurs when an employee is under the influence or just simply because higher management burned them before you did. The union reps bitch about how often we use drug and alcohol tests and that they're used with almost every safety incident and everytime we find someone sleeping, but most employees don't mind being safer and not carrying dead weight. Refusing a test results in a lifetime ban from all of our facilities. If a union guy fails a test, we force him to contractually agree to treatment, random tests, and no recourse if he fails another. If a manager fails a test, they are immediately escorted off the property and banned for life so nobody ever drinks at lunch or ever comes in if called while out drinking. For contractors, we often cancel the contract, remove the entire crew, and force the highest levels to come to us to beg for a new contract. Contractors bring suspect employees to our attention and union guys bring suspect contractors to our attention.

No one has ever overdosed on marijuana. EVER. Studies done on rats show that the lethal dose for cannabis is about 1250 mg/kg. So for humans, to die from smoking pot, you'd have to smoke about 1500 pounds of pot within a 15 minute span to get a lethal dose.

Don't quote me and then say that. I never said anyone overdosed from marijuana. You think inhaling a chemical substance can't create all the same problems as cigarettes and alcohol. Don't people attend substance abuse over pot. Fine by me, but don't ask me to pay for the next guy's entertainment. Its why I shrug when people complain about cigarette taxes. Then don't smoke the damned things, take up some exercise, and reduce my medicare and health costs.

[mjs]

How would you feel about your employees coming to work hung over and doing a lousy job since they are sick from legal booze?

I'd fire them. Come in ready to work or let me promote your replacement from that job you refused. I drink, but its never affected my job.

[mjs]

Whoever would votes to keep pot illegal while claiming to be a conservative is confused.

Conservatives are for smaller government and personal liberties, am I right? Supporting big government that steps in [[epically on a federal level) and decides what we can't put into out bodies goes against these ideas.

And on a side note, I'm more in favor of decriminalizing than legalizing.

That link divides up the poll results in various interesting ways. It depends on how you define bigger or what role you are talking about. Conservatives are for less government spending excluding the police and military. Liberals are for more government spending excluding the military. They both want more restrictions. They just disagree whether the government should be restricting drugs or guns, racism or pollution, nudity or whatever. Libertarians want more individual rights and there's groups that want more states rights. Omaha, batson, Oladub, you guys understand these terms better than I do.

[ccbatson]

Libertarians have this one 100 percent correct.

[rb336]

Conservatives are for smaller government and personal liberties, am I right?

that is what they claim, but the reality is another story [["patriot act" "project for a new American Century" and other things). all they are really for is preserving the wealth and power of the mighty

[Detroitej72]

Libertarians have this one 100 percent correct.

Amen Brother!

[ccbatson]

Realize that this means that individuals should have the right to decide, even if/when the decisions that they make are stupid.