Lake St. Clair Needs to Finally Become a True Asset for the Inner Ring Suburbs

**nain rouge** · April-29-12, 09:39 AM

As an avid bicyclist/walker living in Metro Detroit, I often find myself frustrated by how poorly integrated our region is with Lake St. Clair. I can't just hop on my bike, head east and expect to be able to access the lake. And that sucks.

In many inner ring suburbs, people live only 5-15 miles away from the Great Lakes, the largest collection of freshwater lakes in the world. However, because of the way everything is designed, the experience for most citizens isn't much different from living in, say, the middle of Ohio. The way the southern shoreline of Lake St. Clair has been cordoned off by homes with private beaches and residents-only parks is simply unbelievable.

The message is clear for most inner ring suburbanites: hit 16 Mile if you want to experience Lake St. Clair. Below that, this lake isn't for you. That's not so terrible if you have a car - it means you might have to tack an extra 15 minutes onto your ride. It's a nuisance, but not a complete As an avid bicyclist/walker living in Metro Detroit, I often find myself frustrated by how poorly integrated our region is with Lake St. Clair. I can't just hop on my bike, head east and expect to be able to access the lake. And that sucks.

If you live on 9 Mile and Scheonherr, for example, riding the bus or biking up to 16 Mile adds a ton of time and hassle to your trip, and walking is out of the question. Sure, you could go down into Detroit instead - where access is a little better - and get to the lake that way, but travelling through that 8 Mile to McNichols pocket without a car is something I could only recommend for experienced locals. Plus, it's still quite a trip.

Why can't our imaginary citizen that lives on 9 Mile and Scheonherr take 9 Mile to the shore? It's asinine.

Imagine you're selling a home in Ferndale or Hazel Park. As it stands, Lake St. Clair doesn't provide much of a selling point. But imagine if there were buses on some of the mile roads actually came by regularly and could take you straight to the lake, and you could actually walk along the shore and to all the nearby restaurants. Somehow, I think that would make many people much more interested in your people. The lake would finally be a real asset for the people in those cities.

The provincialism displayed by some citizens in the Pointes and St. Clair Shores is hurting our entire region as a whole, which in turn hurts those cities as well. St. Clair Shores, for example, exists solely as a byproduct of Metro Detroit's success as a region. It's tied intrinsically to the fortunes of its neighbors. In the end, cutting of access to Lake St. Clair hurts it more than it helps it.

We all need to start looking at the bigger picture, and looking at our problems from a regional perspective. As they say - divided we fall, together we stand. Detroit, for one, is starting to get it with developments like the River Walk. And, ideally, more people would live in Detroit and enjoy such amenities. The truth is, though, that there will always be a large group of people that prefer suburbs over cities, and that's why making our inner ring suburbs as attractive as possible is integral to our regional future and to the ultimate redevelopment of strong urban cores. The people on 9 Mile are just as important as the people on Jefferson.

**Johnnny5** · April-29-12, 10:20 AM

I totally agree that more public access on the Southern portion of the lake would be great. That being said, I can't blame communities with their own access points for keeping those locations to themselves. Space at most is very limited and allowing the entire region to use them would make for an all around poor experience for everyone.

**poobert** · April-29-12, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

Space at most is very limited and allowing the entire region to use them would make for an all around poor experience for everyone.

I realize you mean well and are in the same boat on this, but isn't that kind of attitude the problem? I don't think public spaces make for a poor experience for anyone, except maybe the very wealthy who would prefer to have an absolutely private, exclusive experience.

There are parks all along the Pacific Ocean in San Francisco, for example, which is hardly a poor experience for anyone, if you've ever been there. You can walk, bike, bus, streetcar there and they are magnificent - and public.

Detroiters suffer from this too - not just inner ring suburbanites. I live in Detroit [[East English Village) and folks in the southern end of the neighborhood can hear the freighters - but never see them, because there is literally no where one can access the lake because of Grosse Pointe. I understand they don't want people causing a commotion but there is something sinister about completely blocking off a natural landform, which the Supreme Being in his wisdom gave us, from the "other." Also I hardly count myself as rifraff, I would really just like to sit and look at the water. I've brought this up before in other threads.

I've also complained how unappealing the suburbs are and certainly ready lake access would make them much more desirable and interesting. I think that would be good for everyone.

**Mikeg** · April-29-12, 10:38 AM

The need for public recreational access to Lake St. Clair in this area was recognized as a problem more than 45 years ago. In 1967, the Macomb County Drain Commission initiated what they called the "Island Study".

It proposed "punching" through the existing private development along the lakeshore by extending Nine Mile Road past the recently-completed Chapaton Basin onto a causeway that would connect with a man-made island out in Lake St. Clair.

However, the proposal never got past the "study" stage, likely because of the high construction costs and the increasing difficulty of getting Federal permission to reclaim dredging spoils.

Location map:

Bird's eye view:

Plan view:

**townonenorth** · April-29-12, 12:57 PM

I really like that concept, and wish that they would have completed it.

**Bobl** · April-29-12, 02:18 PM

I agree, not only along Lake St Clair, but all of the Great Lakes. There are numerous access spots along Lake Huron, on the Canadian side, and it is possible to walk for miles along the shore there.

**Gistok** · April-29-12, 02:35 PM

Unfortunately the shoreline was already populated with homes and cottages during much of the 20th century. And St. Clair Shores was built on a swamp... so much of the lakeshore was considered unsuitable for some uses.

The Macomb County Drain Commission is responsible for the closure of the 9 Mile Jefferson Beach back in the 1960s... so their plan may have been more PR than reality... since the Army Corps. of Engineers frowns on that type of changes to the lakefront.

Although St. Clair Shores has 3 parks for residents only... there is one small park available for cyclists... that's Champine Park at 12 Mile and Jefferson. There's no vehicular parking provided for this small oasis... but there is a bike rack available for cyclists.

**p69rrh51** · April-29-12, 03:08 PM

What type of access do you want? Unfortunately turning back over 100 years of development to open up the lake for your enjoyment would probably not happen anytime soon. As for bicycling and walking Lakeshore is accessable [[although parking is a problem). I would like to see the Lakeshore widened to include a bike lane as its too dangerous for both bicyclists and motorists alike in its current configuration.
What you really want is to have access to the lakefront parks. Its a double edged sword you everyone to use them but who pays for the parks? One of the selling points of GP is access to the Parks, if the are open to everyone, the area becomes quite unattractive and the residents will never let happen. If you did not know the parks are only available to the resident of the individual city a resident of Grosse Pointe Park cannot just go the the Pier in Grosse Pointe Farms unless as a guest of a resident of the farms so even the locals are locked out of some parks.
Its interesting there is excellent access to the Detroit River right at its mouth with Lake St. Clair just across Fox Creek from the Windmill Pointe Park in GPP. There are 3 parks that cover the waterfront from the Detroit/GP border almost to the Detroit Edison plant but nobody ever brings them up when talking access. I wonder why that is?? I also sail by the parks quite often during the summer and they are very underultilized why don't you ride your bicycle there?
There are plenty of local parks in every city that need plenty of attention but everyone seems to think that the 6 waterfront parks in GP plus the few parks in SCS are going to solve all their problems!

**Novine** · April-29-12, 05:32 PM

"One of the selling points of GP is access to the Parks, if the are open to everyone, the area becomes quite unattractive and the residents will never let happen."

This must be an "only-in-Detroit" thing. If you go to the west side of the state, almost every town along the lake has at least one or more significant public beaches along Lake Michigan and almost every one of those towns is a destination for people near and far. New Buffalo, South Haven, St. Joe, Saugatuck/Douglas, Holland, etc.

**nain rouge** · April-29-12, 06:02 PM

What type of access do you want? Unfortunately turning back over 100 years of development to open up the lake for your enjoyment would probably not happen anytime soon.

100 years of development doesn't necessarily impress me. We've torn down numerous historic neighborhoods to make way for freeways. There shouldn't be any sacred cows.

But I get it. Since the people in the St. Clair Shores and the Pointes have money and political connections, they deserve to have the shoreline as their personal playground.

Its interesting there is excellent access to the Detroit River right at its mouth with Lake St. Clair just across Fox Creek from the Windmill Pointe Park in GPP. There are 3 parks that cover the waterfront from the Detroit/GP border almost to the Detroit Edison plant but nobody ever brings them up when talking access.

Somehow, cities like New York manage to provide excellent access to their waterfronts despite the existence of some rough neighborhoods. The main problem with the Detroit parks you mentioned is that they've practically been abandoned by the city government because Detroit has no tax base. And even if those parks were given more attention, how would that justify the way St. Clair Shores and the Pointes have blocked off the shore? You're just being xenophobic, to put it politely.

There are plenty of local parks in every city that need plenty of attention but everyone seems to think that the 6 waterfront parks in GP plus the few parks in SCS are going to solve all their problems!

No, I don't care about the parks in particular. I just want to be able to walk along the shore and touch the water if I want. Lake Shore Drive was a start, but aside from one tiny little section, it doesn't really resolve the problem.

Also, to touch on the topic of funding, I think that we should take a more regional approach to how we fund public spaces and buildings. Metro Detroit is plagued with too many fiefdom suburbs, which in reality just adds needless layers of additional bureaucracy to the regional government. Why do we need "cities" that only take up a couple of square miles? To reuse a phrase from my first post: it's asinine. Indianapolis is over 350 square miles in size and seems to function OK. I still can't believe we're just letting our shiny new science center rot. That was a real asset for a region!

**p69rrh51** · April-29-12, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

100 years of development doesn't necessarily impress me. We've torn down numerous historic neighborhoods to make way for freeways. There shouldn't be any sacred cows.

But I get it. Since the people in the St. Clair Shores and the Pointes have money and political connections, they deserve to have the shoreline as their personal playground.

Somehow, cities like New York manage to provide excellent access to their waterfronts despite the existence of some rough neighborhoods. The main problem with the Detroit parks you mentioned is that they've practically been abandoned by the city government because Detroit has no tax base. And even if those parks were given more attention, how would that justify the way St. Clair Shores and the Pointes have blocked off the shore? You're just being xenophobic, to put it politely.

No, I don't care about the parks in particular. I just want to be able to walk along the shore and touch the water if I want. Lake Shore Drive was a start, but aside from one tiny little section, it doesn't really resolve the problem.

Also, to touch on the topic of funding, I think that we should take a more regional approach to how we fund public spaces and buildings. Metro Detroit is plagued with too many fiefdom suburbs, which in reality just adds needless layers of additional bureaucracy to the regional government. Why do we need "cities" that only take up a couple of square miles? To reuse a phrase from my first post: it's asinine. Indianapolis is over 350 square miles in size and seems to function OK. I still can't believe we're just letting our shiny new science center rot. That was a real asset for a region!

Xenophobic just how would you plan on paying for all the land to start with?? Especially with funding as it stands right now. I do like that you compare a small area of 50k residents or so to a city the size of New York but again you avoid the comparing apples to apples[[try finding water access in some of "Fiefdoms" outside of NYC). In all this you do not mention the city of Detroit itself which should be creating similar parks. Also Lake St. Clair in not a great lake just a holding pond between two great lakes. Finally you seem to want to take it from the residents for your own personal use why not move to the area and pay for the privilege like we all do here?

**poobert** · April-29-12, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by p69rrh51

Also Lake St. Clair in not a great lake just a holding pond between two great lakes. Finally you seem to want to take it from the residents for your own personal use why not move to the area and pay for the privilege like we all do here?

So let's clarify:

You don't want people to take away "Lake St. Clair" from "the residents for [[one's) own personal use"

So now "residents" own the lake?? Do residents of San Francisco own the Pacific Ocean?? No one owns it!!! It is a natural resource! And let me be clear: you don't pay for the fucking lake.

The region will never get better as long as this "I've got mine so fuck you" attitude prevails.

By the way, I drove through St. Clair Shores today, and despite the lake monopoly it is looking a little rough around the edges these days. Like most of this region.

And no one can really fault Detroit in this, between Belle Isle and the Riverwalk it offers unparalleled, unprejudiced access to the water for everyone, no questions asked. I say we exclude residents of St. Clair Shores and Grossey Pointey.

**p69rrh51** · April-29-12, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by poobert

So let's clarify:

You don't want people to take away "Lake St. Clair" from "the residents for [[one's) own personal use"

So now "residents" own the lake?? Do residents of San Francisco own the Pacific Ocean?? No one owns it!!! It is a natural resource! And let me be clear: you don't pay for the fucking lake.

The region will never get better as long as this "I've got mine so fuck you" attitude prevails.

By the way, I drove through St. Clair Shores today, and despite the lake monopoly it is looking a little rough around the edges these days. Like most of this region.

And no one can really fault Detroit in this, between Belle Isle and the Riverwalk it offers unparalleled, unprejudiced access to the water for everyone, no questions asked. I saw we exclude residents of St. Clair Shores and Grossey Pointey.

No I do not own the lake but I do pay for the access and gladly do!! But then I also have had to pick up the litter, beer cans, liquor bottles, and even used condoms left you those who want the access for[[most from the cherished areas discussed here). Would you want that lack of respect for your property? One summer we even had a person fishing [[its illegal to fish along Lakeshore) when finished he would clean the fish right out in front of the house and leave the guts on the front of the property. Talk to any GP resident who live close to the lake and you will here very similar stories [[one of the reasons no parking is so far from the lake on some streets). So if it comes to dealing with more of that there is no fucking way I want anyone to have access!

**oladub** · April-29-12, 07:58 PM

Did anyone say "Belle Isle"? Some improvements are needed but it has over 5 miles of scenic shoreline, is good for bicycling, is closer for more Detroiters than 16 mile Road, and peeks at Lake St. Clair.

SteveJ · April-29-12, 08:01 PM

You open the parks up and all the ghetto trash from the east side come. I don't blame them.

**Johnnny5** · April-29-12, 08:06 PM

Again, I think the size of the parks in question really needs to be taken into consideration before criticizing these communities for restricting access. We're not talking about dozens of miles of public coastline like in San Francisco or on Lake Michigan. The parks in the Pointes are for the most park tiny, and available parking is non existent in some and limited in the others. These parks would literally be overrun with users if access was not limited to residents and their guests.

More public access in the area would be great, but the residents deserve to be able to enjoy the parks that their tax dollars helped pay for and maintain. That would not be possible if 4 million Metro Detroiter's had access to those tiny parks.

**JBMcB** · April-29-12, 09:32 PM

I don't understand what all the consternation is all about. If you want lake access move to St. Clair Shores or one of the Pointes. You'll pay for it, of course - they take good care of their parks and their property taxes reflect that.

Or move to Detroit - my friend lives in an apartment building on Jefferson and can walk to Belle Isle.

**nain rouge** · April-29-12, 10:36 PM

More public access in the area would be great, but the residents deserve to be able to enjoy the parks that their tax dollars helped pay for and maintain. That would not be possible if 4 million Metro Detroiter's had access to those tiny parks.

All this talk of parks is shifting the tone of the conversation away from my main points. Look at my original post. I believe the word park only appears twice, and one of the times is in reference to Hazel Park. While opening up access to the tiny parks in the Pointes and St. Clair Shores to nonresidents would be beneficial for the region as a whole, it's far from what I'd ideally want. I want the coast opened much more than that.

But on the topic of park access: Hey, maybe you're right. Perhaps every city in Metro Detroit with a couple square miles to its name should block nonresidents from as much access as possible. Hell, cities in the inner ring should put toll booths on the roads along the borders, because people who don't pay taxes in those cities don't deserve to use the roads for free. It's just ridiculous to expect small old Hazel Park, for example, to continue to keep its roads open for all 4 million Metro Detroiters without tolls.

But to be serious, I would like to see our shoreline treated as a regional asset, and that could very well mean spreading out the tax burden more. But that opens up a can of worms - if Grosse Pointers expect us to pay to get in their parks, I'll be expecting them to pony up for the parks and other regional assets in Detroit, too. Fair is fair.

I don't understand what all the consternation is all about. If you want lake access move to St. Clair Shores or one of the Pointes.

It's not ridiculous for me to think that someone living 5 miles away from Lake St. Clair should be able to have some kind of access to the lake without having travel over double that amount of miles. These territorial couple square mile cities are artificial constructs and relics of a bygone era. We have to recognize that we all have a stake in this region's health, and that possessiveness is damaging in the long run. St. Clair Shores and the Pointes aren't exactly what they used to be, and part of that has to do with the deterioration of the cities around them. Making the shoreline a regional asset would improve the standing of living for all the eastern inner ring suburbs, which too often feel soulless and restrictive, and would entice more people to live in them. We could all be proud of Lake St. Clair.

Look, if you want the lake all to yourself, I think you should move farther north. The fact is that St. Clair Shores and the Pointes are part of a large band of suburbs, and are hurting the rest of the band by blocking off the lake. It's simply bad business.

Especially with funding as it stands right now. I do like that you compare a small area of 50k residents or so to a city the size of New York but again you avoid the comparing apples to apples[[try finding water access in some of "Fiefdoms" outside of NYC).

The inner ring suburbs as whole have hundreds of thousands of people. If we worked together, we could afford to open up the shoreline. And I'm not talking about turning the whole thing into a park necessarily. Just make it open, so you can touch the water if you want.

**JBMcB** · April-29-12, 10:57 PM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

It's not ridiculous for me to think that someone living 5 miles away from Lake St. Clair should be able to have some kind of access to the lake without having travel over double that amount of miles.

If lake access is that important to you, moving five miles to St. Clair Shores doesn't seem unreasonable.

If there is that much demand for people from Roseville to hang out on the lake, they can team up with Eastpointe and whomever else, cough up a [[probably sizable) millage, buy a chunk of land and build their own park.

I think you'll find that most people don't care. I don't - I like the lake and all but I'm happy going to the pool. Besides, the grounds pass for the Edsel house is cheap and the views of Lake St. Clair are spectacular there - it's where I'd go if I want to hang out on the lake and don't feel like driving to Metro or Belle Isle.

**p69rrh51** · April-30-12, 12:21 AM

Originally Posted by JBMcB

If lake access is that important to you, moving five miles to St. Clair Shores doesn't seem unreasonable.

If there is that much demand for people from Roseville to hang out on the lake, they can team up with Eastpointe and whomever else, cough up a [[probably sizable) millage, buy a chunk of land and build their own park.

I think you'll find that most people don't care. I don't - I like the lake and all but I'm happy going to the pool. Besides, the grounds pass for the Edsel house is cheap and the views of Lake St. Clair are spectacular there - it's where I'd go if I want to hang out on the lake and don't feel like driving to Metro or Belle Isle.

So right!! But in all this there is hardly any mention especially by nain about the bigger picture the shoreline from the mouth of the river to the bridge or so. There is 8-10 miles of shoreline. Why don't you want improve the access there? The impact to the metro area would be far greater there than anywhere in the city. Also why are you not ranting about all the Oakland Co. lakes and access there? Its a very similar situation to the eastside. Hazel Park is closer to some the lakes but no crying about the lack of access there? Wouldn't access to those lakes improve your theoretical ideal city?

**KJ5** · April-30-12, 12:59 AM

Legalize fishing on Lakeshore!

**p69rrh51** · April-30-12, 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by KJ5

Legalize fishing on Lakeshore!

Is the fishing along the shore that good? I only see anglers out at specific points along the GP shoreline but they are all out a bit in the lake.

**Gistok** · April-30-12, 01:29 AM

What is interesting is that there is nearly 1 mile of shoreline that was tied up by Edsel & Eleanor Ford, when they bought their Gaukler Pointe estate in the 1920s. The current land around the mansion has 3,100 ft. of lakefront property [[including Ford Cove). They either donated or sold another large chunk of adjacent lakefront land in St. Clair Shores to Grosse Pointe Woods as their private waterfront park. So that takes nearly 1 mile of waterfront that is locked away. Add to that the removal of former Jefferson Beach when the Chapoton Drain/Retention Basin was installed at 9 Mile Rd., and you have a large chunk of land removed from potential [[greater) public use.

In SCS there is still one medium sized plot that could be eventually be waterfront parkland... the VFW property near 13 Mile. But besides that, every other part of SCS is filled in. And with Eminent Domain as restrictive as it is... there's no other option for more...

**ordinary** · April-30-12, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

there is one small park available for cyclists... that's Champine Park at 12 Mile and Jefferson. There's no vehicular parking provided for this small oasis... but there is a bike rack available for cyclists.

It is totally disingenous to even call that a park. It's about the size of a postage stamp.

**ordinary** · April-30-12, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by p69rrh51

One summer we even had a person fishing

Horror of horrors, there was a person fishing!! I know I'm taking that out of context but it did strike me as funny.

The bottom line is that the lakefront is never going to be opened up. It's too late for that. It would have had to happen 100 years ago.