EMF repeal blocked due to font size.

**brizee** · April-26-12, 12:13 PM

The games some people play.

I am expecting some shenanigans for the ages across the country this November.

**Novine** · April-26-12, 02:26 PM

This will be overturned in the courts.

**Detroitnerd** · April-26-12, 02:33 PM

It's a good thing the Michigan Board of State Canvassers weren't there to greet Moses when he came down from Mount Horeb bearing the tablets with the Ten Commandments ...

**Wesley Mouch** · April-26-12, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

It's a good thing the Michigan Board of State Canvassers weren't there to greet Moses when he came down from Mount Horeb bearing the tablets with the Ten Commandments ...

By Any Means Necessary.

**Ray1936** · April-26-12, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

It's a good thing the Michigan Board of State Canvassers weren't there to greet Moses when he came down from Mount Horeb bearing the tablets with the Ten Commandments ...

Ah, but remember "History of the World", when Mel Brooks came down from the mountain with three tablets, proclaiming, "I have been given these fifteen......<crash, one tablet falls and shatters>.....uh.....ten commandments....."

**socks_mahoney** · April-26-12, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

It's a good thing the Michigan Board of State Canvassers weren't there to greet Moses when he came down from Mount Horeb bearing the tablets with the Ten Commandments ...

WOW. Didn't think I would be able to get a laugh after looking at this. But seriously. ROTFL

Remember Remember the font in November.

fucking fascists. excuse my french. le resistance.

**edgar_rhode** · April-26-12, 08:42 PM

i'd be curious to check this petition against previous republican approved petitions and ballot issues. it would seem there should be some consistency.

but what next - rejected for use of comic sans? bad kerning?

pitiful.

**stasu1213** · April-26-12, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by edgar_rhode

i'd be curious to check this petition against previous republican approved petitions and ballot issues. it would seem there should be some consistency.

but what next - rejected for use of comic sans? bad kerning?

pitiful.

I wonder if the font size on Gov. Snyders petition or ballot for governor was the same size fonts as on this petition. If so, would Snyder have to steop down from being Governor?

**Don K** · April-26-12, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by Novine

This will be overturned in the courts.

Um... with a Republican-controlled Supreme Court? Not a chance.

**Det_ard** · April-26-12, 11:11 PM

Every residential lease in the state of Michigan has to have certain exact verbiage in a specific minimum font size. I have heard of evictions being overturned because a sentence was in 12 point type instead of 14 point.

Yes, it's petty, it's a technicality, and in this case it's pure politics. It's also the law and whoever screwed up the font size is a total idiot.

Something tells me that many folks would be perfectly happy if a font size issue prevented a bank from foreclosing on some family's house. Contextual outrage or glee, depending on whose side you're on.

**Novine** · April-26-12, 11:20 PM

The printer testified that the font was the correct size.

**drjeff** · April-27-12, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by Novine

The printer testified that the font was the correct size.

This is important because there are several different ways of measuring font size. The politicians reportedly measured it with a ruler, which is not accurate.

**brizee** · April-27-12, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by drjeff

This is important because there are several different ways of measuring font size. The politicians reportedly measured it with a ruler, which is not accurate.

I also read [[but can't confirm at this time) that on petition fond size and bolding is required but not the font type.

So 14 point font of differing styles would be drastically different in size.

I don't care what side of the aisle you're on. This is disenfranchisement, and it makes all 9.9 million of us look like complete rubes.

**Hypestyles** · April-27-12, 12:31 PM

curious. I wonder how long the appeals process would take?

**Det_ard** · April-27-12, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by Novine

The printer testified that the font was the correct size.

Maybe it was, I haven't seen it and a printer ought to know.

On the other hand, a cynic [[or even a reasonable person) would question whether the printer who printed the petitions could objectively assess his own work. Even another printer might be inclined to favor the petitioners if he were unionized, since this EFM repeal effort is heavily union-backed.

**Wesley Mouch** · April-27-12, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by brizee

...I don't care what side of the aisle you're on. This is disenfranchisement, and it makes all 9.9 million of us look like complete rubes.

Both sides of the aisle are willing to use 'whatever means necessary' to gum up the other side. This is the political world we live in. Don't think for a moment that the pro-Union side wouldn't do the same thing if they had the chance.

The state of politics is indeed sad.

**1953** · April-27-12, 02:04 PM

I love that this petition drive was blocked...

**Novine** · April-27-12, 02:22 PM

Why? The idea that the font size of on the header of the petition can be a cause to disqualify a petition that was signed by more than the required number of petitioners is contrary to our state's constitution. The courts have consistently said that this kind of reason can't be used to otherwise disenfranchise voters. The courts will put this back on the ballot. Then the voters can decide, which is how it should be.

**bailey** · April-27-12, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by Novine

Why? The idea that the font size of on the header of the petition can be a cause to disqualify a petition that was signed by more than the required number of petitioners is contrary to our state's constitution. The courts have consistently said that this kind of reason can't be used to otherwise disenfranchise voters. The courts will put this back on the ballot. Then the voters can decide, which is how it should be.

The voters DID decide when they elected the current administration and the legislators. This is the losing side wanting another bite at the apple. If you want this changed, vote for the other guy next time who campaigns on repealing PA 4. Continually submitting every action of government you don't like to a voter referendum will ensure nothing ever gets accomplished....or we remain in a state of constant uncertainty on major issues.

Also, to echo a comment from above.... if this had been a font screw up on something the Unions didn't want, it would absolutely have been raised. Let's not be silly and pretend one side is using dirty tricks and the other is beyond such methods.

**brizee** · April-27-12, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Both sides of the aisle are willing to use 'whatever means necessary' to gum up the other side. This is the political world we live in. Don't think for a moment that the pro-Union side wouldn't do the same thing if they had the chance.

The state of politics is indeed sad.

Nope.

Even though I'm not really fans of either side I definitely come down solidly in one camp. You don't get to

*Put the southern strategy in effect for 40 years

*Go out of your way to discourage the vote of young people, minorities, the poor, college students [[aka people unlikely to vote for you)

*Continually regularly pull stunts as stated in the OP

and then to cry false equivalence when called on it.

You keep stinging people don't get mad when you're called out for the scorpions and snakes that you are.

**Wesley Mouch** · April-27-12, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

The voters DID decide when they elected the current administration and the legislators. <snip>

Exactly. No one is 'disenfranchised'. They exercised their 'franchise' to vote in their representatives. This is an effort to create a new ballot initiative. They either did or did not comply with the law. If they did, then I'm sure it'll get on the ballot.

Originally Posted by bailey

Also, to echo a comment from above.... if this had been a font screw up on something the Unions didn't want, it would absolutely have been raised. Let's not be silly and pretend one side is using dirty tricks and the other is beyond such methods.

Exactly.

**Jimaz** · April-27-12, 08:00 PM

We grew up with a printing press in the house but I don't remember this much confusion about the size of a point. The Wikipedia article on "Point [[typography)" makes it sound very confusing.

Reference the following graphic from Freep's Emergency manager ballot issue rejected, now it's headed for the courts.

The problem on the left is that they're not including descenders [[e.g. the tail of a lowercase "g") in the measurement. It's my understanding that descenders should be included in measuring the point size of type even if no lowercase letters are used in a particular sample. I suspect the space between successive lines should be included too.

The problem on the right is, well, I'm not a top expert but I've never heard this idea that the size of a point varies from font to font. I do recall my father using a "pica stick" to measure point sizes. For all his many different fonts he had only one pica stick and it wasn't designated to be used for any one particular font. Here's a pica stick:

from Is this what is meant by a “pica stick” and how do you read it? at briar press.

The 2000 "hanging chad" fiasco comes to mind. The reporters need to interview printers instead of attorneys to put this technicality behind us and move on with the substance of the emergency manager debate.

**Gistok** · April-27-12, 09:07 PM

For what it's worth... I believe that 9 point Ariel appears larger than 10 point New Times Roman... but I digress....

P.S. Tis true!!

**Novine** · April-27-12, 09:29 PM

Bailey and Wesley, the right to a referendum is part of the Michigan constitution. If you don't believe in the right of people to exercise that right, just say so. As for the phony argument of "the unions would have done this if the tables were turned", the courts would still hold that the right for voters to decide takes precedence over claims that the font size or point size of the header justifies voters the right to vote on the law.

**Zacha341** · April-27-12, 11:23 PM

The given "X" height of a font varies and Arial for example will look larger than Times New Roman of the same size due to its larger X height. Ahhh... Takes me back to my type specing days and those typography classes back in college, etc.

Originally Posted by Gistok

For what it's worth... I believe that 9 point Ariel appears larger than 10 point New Times Roman... but I digress....

P.S. Tis true!!