Gentrification?

**sumas** · April-23-12, 06:23 PM

Love my house, love my neighbors, making investments into our neighborhood.

Did get a pause when a neighbor's husband worried too many white folk moving in. This disturbs me.

I can't even articulate what bothers me so. We are not rich, giggle lots on that one. We cut our grass, look out for our neighbors.

What is the issue here, I don't see one. Kind of like I mind my business you mind yours but I want a street that is clean and neat. They want the same but what is this color issue?

**Detroitnerd** · April-23-12, 06:28 PM

Gentrification hasn't happened here so much, so it's worth defining it.

If "gentrification" just means that you share your neighborhood with more professionals and upper-income people and it raises the value of your house too, that's not really gentrification to me.

It's when government and corporations and real estate people conspire to make a lot of money by consolidating their hold on a neighborhood by getting rid of people then selectively restoring services the neighborhood didn't have before. It's a kind of cheating, I think, more than a neighborhood just getting richer and nicer.

I apologize for any completely coincidental similarities between "gentrification" and Detroit Works in advance. Thank you.

**gameguy56** · April-23-12, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by sumas

Love my house, love my neighbors, making investments into our neighborhood.

Did get a pause when a neighbor's husband worried too many white folk moving in. This disturbs me.

I can't even articulate what bothers me so. We are not rich, giggle lots on that one. We cut our grass, look out for our neighbors.

What is the issue here, I don't see one. Kind of like I mind my business you mind yours but I want a street that is clean and neat. They want the same but what is this color issue?

Gentrification happens in major coastal cities with overheated real estate values and a never-ending stream of young professionals moving into neighborhoods previously full of disadvantaged residents and then the landlords jack up the rents so that the existing residents are basically 'forced' out.

I don't think that's happening in Detroit. It's more of a trickle of urban pioneers. When, instead of 200,000 people leaving Detroit in 10 years, it's 200,000 people moving to Detroit in 10 years, we may have an argument for gentrification.

**Bham1982** · April-23-12, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by sumas

Did get a pause when a neighbor's husband worried too many white folk moving in. This disturbs me.

Accoring to the 2010 Census, with the exception of downtown and midtown, the white population is declining in Detroit.

So there's white growth in maybe 2-3% of the city, and white decline in the rest. So if presence of newcomer whites is some harbinger of gentrification, it doesn't seem to be happening, or at least not yet.

Maybe there's black gentrifcation, or non-race specific gentrification occuring in smaller enclaves in other parts of the city, but nothing of significance.

**Detroitnerd** · April-23-12, 07:06 PM

I love how Bham, from his perch out in the suburbs, sees all. See, Sumas? No need to notice anything changing on your street: Bham has spoken. [giggles]

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · April-23-12, 07:07 PM

Sumas: What neighborhood do you live in? Do you notice an increase in white residents?

**Bham1982** · April-23-12, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

I love how Bham, from his perch out in the suburbs, sees all. See, Sumas? No need to notice anything changing on your street: Bham has spoken. [giggles]

Read my post. I cited the 2010 Census.

Or are you claiming that Sumas' backyard anecdotal observations trump the research from hundreds of PhDs and thousands of employees working to enumerate the decennial Census?

**Detroitnerd** · April-23-12, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Read my post. I cited the 2010 Census.

Or are you claiming that Sumas' backyard anecdotal observations trump the research from hundreds of PhDs and thousands of employees working to enumerate the decennial Census?

Hell, yeah, when it comes to his street.

Let the man talk. I think he's probably the best judge of what's going on when it comes to his street. It's not anecdotal so much as empirical.

Anyway, Jesus H. Christ, what a totally nonexistent sense of humor you have, Bham.

**GoGrixdale** · April-23-12, 07:30 PM

We've gotten 3 non-coloreds in our neighborhood in the past year and a half. Add those to the others I'd say the ratio must be pushing 20%.

...can't say they seem wealthy ...just regular

Woodward tween 6 & 7

Me, and those I pal around with, PRAY for [[re)gentrification.

**Det_ard** · April-23-12, 07:40 PM

You can't have gentrification unless those moving in are richer than the original residents of the neighborhood. So if a neighborhood goes from upper-middle class to lower class to middle class, it's not gentrification.

Source: me.

**canuck** · April-23-12, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Hell, yeah, when it comes to his street.

Let the man talk. I think he's probably the best judge of what's going on when it comes to his street. It's not anecdotal so much as empirical.

Anyway, Jesus H. Christ, what a totally nonexistent sense of humor you have, Bham.

Sumas is a lady.

**antongast** · April-23-12, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by Det_ard

You can't have gentrification unless those moving in are richer than the original residents of the neighborhood. So if a neighborhood goes from upper-middle class to lower class to middle class, it's not gentrification.

Source: me.

Well, I think "gentrification" is synonymous with "bear attacks." If there are no bears involved, it's not gentrification.

**Det_ard** · April-23-12, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by antongast

Well, I think "gentrification" is synonymous with "bear attacks." If there are no bears involved, it's not gentrification.

Good to know.

**rb336** · April-23-12, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by antongast

Well, I think "gentrification" is synonymous with "bear attacks." If there are no bears involved, it's not gentrification.

what about coyotes?

**gazhekwe** · April-23-12, 08:26 PM

Is "gentrification" the new Detroit definition for "getting dark around here"?\

I always thought "gentrification" meant people with money coming in and buying chunks of property at low prices, Putting in lots of improvements, making it nice so more people noticed and came in at low prices, and made improvements, until suddenly property values increased, then rents went up and current residents could not afford to stay.

**antongast** · April-23-12, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by rb336

what about coyotes?

Coyotes are typically a byproduct of exclusionary zoning laws.

**sumas** · April-23-12, 08:50 PM

Actually and truely do appreciate folks weighing in on my querie. I still am puzzled. The man in question is recently ordained. We attended the creremony. I really like him and wish his wife had not expressed he was worried about the white influx. She is an amazing woman and she agreed color just don't matter if it adds content to neighborhood. Cutting our grass [[note it needs it again) is just something one does as a homeowner.

**Richard** · April-23-12, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by sumas

Actually and truely do appreciate folks weighing in on my querie. I still am puzzled. The man in question is recently ordained. We attended the creremony. I really like him and wish his wife had not expressed he was worried about the white influx. She is an amazing woman and she agreed color just don't matter if it adds content to neighborhood. Cutting our grass [[note it needs it again) is just something one does as a homeowner.

I have run into that situation before and most cases it is somebody that is trying to control the neighborhood be it dealers, power trips or I guess in your case maybe ones flock may see the true colors or some are comfortable in there little realm and see outsiders as a threat ,sound familer ? Anyways it is usually just one person in general and not the entire neighborhood .

Nothing wrong with setting an example that's how it starts outside of the house gets painted next thing you know one by one the others start to put a bit more effort in, I would not let it bother me ordained or not you are being the better person by example anyways.

**wolverine** · April-24-12, 01:09 AM

I think some neighborhoods have improved but not to the level where residents have been forced out or where there's a large mismatch between incomes and propery condition / value. There's still a long way to go before Detroit will see the level of gentrification other cities had. Heck I remember when rehabbing factories and old homes into fancy condos and apartments was all the rage. Now those properties...renovated in the 90s and 2000s are being torn down for 4-level brownstones, mansions and towers....now that's ultimately tragic.

**Hermod** · April-24-12, 05:20 AM

Originally Posted by gazhekwe

I always thought "gentrification" meant people with money coming in and buying chunks of property at low prices, Putting in lots of improvements, making it nice so more people noticed and came in at low prices, and made improvements, until suddenly property values increased, then rents went up and current residents could not afford to stay.

Rents go up for the renters and taxes go up for the owners. People are economically forced from their homes which then leads to more gentrification.

**Eric_c** · April-24-12, 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by sumas

Love my house, love my neighbors, making investments into our neighborhood.

Did get a pause when a neighbor's husband worried too many white folk moving in. This disturbs me.

I can't even articulate what bothers me so. We are not rich, giggle lots on that one. We cut our grass, look out for our neighbors.

What is the issue here, I don't see one. Kind of like I mind my business you mind yours but I want a street that is clean and neat. They want the same but what is this color issue?

Well, neighbor, as far as someone being concerned about race at all - sounds like a racist. He may be a mild one, but one nevertheless.

And yes, the fact is also that Islandview Village is becoming attractive to young White people. In the eight years I've lived here, I've thought many times about why more people in general weren't flocking here. Now, over the course of the last few years, people *are* coming and they just happen to be young and White.

At the end of the day, people see an intact historic community that's affordable, minutes from downtown and Belle Isle, is one of only a small number of city neighborhoods that have multiple [[good, clean) grocery stores, and some of the most beautiful architecture around. As my buddy Burchi would say: a little slice of paradise!

**dmike76** · April-24-12, 08:02 AM

Frustrating. I don't understand why it's a bad thing that 'white folk' move in amongst the 'black folk'. My fiance moved here from Virginia Beach, which is a diverse community due to all of the nearby military bases. She was stunned when she saw the racial divide here because all of the ethnicities where she's from pretty much get along. I live in Livonia and there are some black families moving into my neighborhood, and it is a non-issue to me. As long as they take care of their property[[which they do), I could care less what color they are. Is that 'reverse gentrification'? Are they bringing down the property value of my house? No. If you define gentrification by people with money moving into areas and raising property value, then it happens all the time. I can't afford to move into more affluent neighborhoods, but you don't hear me bitching because 'It's not fair that I can't afford to live there'. I never hear any uproar, forum posts, or news stories when people can't afford to move to Plymouth, Birmingham, etc.

**ronaldj** · April-24-12, 08:55 AM

Hi neighbor to Eric C... Islandview Village is the best of past and new. Slowly people are discovering this great village of Detroit. All are welcome!

**dmike76** · April-24-12, 08:58 AM

We are planning on moving to the D after we get married, and one thing is for sure. We will work hard to have a good relationship with our neighbors regardless of color.

**Wesley Mouch** · April-24-12, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by Hermod

Rents go up for the renters and taxes go up for the owners. People are economically forced from their homes which then leads to more gentrification.

... and the next thing you know, your city's not going broke. City Hall hires more people. A coffee shop opens. Your kids have jobs in the community.

Gentrification is good. This isn't a racial thing at all. Look at Old Redford. Motor City Java House. Next thing you know, they're playing chess on the street --> http://g.co/maps/8vmnm