Lafayette Building next on DEGC hit list?

[GREENTROIT]

heywood mccrakin...

Could you please enlighten us to the benefits of demolishing the Lafayette building?

[ghettopalmetto]

You didn't answer my question, kraig. Please do so for the enlightenment of all us sentimental nostalgic saps who favor preservation.

[DetroitDad]

Well, some people like to focus on the economics and architecture rather than the postcard shot.

Please tell me the last time you saw the spontaneous collapse of a building.

Last year we had at least two. The retail building next to the Broderick Tower on Woodward Avenue, and a building in Greektown at Monroe and Randolph. No one was hurt, but property was damaged in the later. Before that, the Statler was demolished because it was collapsing in on itself, and the Adams Theater which was demolished last week was suffering similar problems. Likewise, portions of the Lafayette Building's facade have reportedly fallen on the sidewalks and street below.

Having a large building collapse would be a P.R. nightmare for the entire city. I can understand why they want to demolish this building.

[ghettopalmetto]

Last year we had at least two. The retail building next to the Broderick Tower on Woodward Avenue, and a building in Greektown at Monroe and Randolph. No one was hurt, but property was damaged in the later. Before that, the Statler was demolished because it was collapsing in on itself, and the Adams Theater which was demolished last week was suffering similar problems. Likewise, portions of the Lafayette Building's facade have reportedly fallen on the sidewalks and street below.

Having a large building collapse would be a P.R. nightmare for the entire city. I can understand why they want to demolish this building.

If I'm not mistaken, that building next to the Broderick Tower had a partial failure because of the incompetence of the contractor working in the space, who created an unstable condition during their work.

Legally, you're not qualified to determine whether or not a building is failing or "collapsing on itself", and neither is the DEGC. Unless, of course, the DEGC would like to release the reports of the licensed Professional Engineers they hire, who seem to find all sorts of "structurally unsound" buildings in Detroit.

Is there anything to indicate that the structural system of the Lafayette Building could experience failure in the immediate future?

[kraig]

You didn't answer my question, kraig. Please do so for the enlightenment of all us sentimental nostalgic saps who favor preservation.

Like I said, why deal with conjecture when I have facts on my side?

I know where the developers of One Detroit Center wanted to go and couldn't, the Ford Auditorium site. Why? Because Ford Auditorium is still there and vacant 19 years after it was saved. Fantastic use of Riverfront property. I'm sure everyone around the world is green with envy over that visionary move.

[buildingsofdetroit]

Just a heads up. The issue now goes before the full City Council on Tuesday. Today's vote was a recommendation to the full council, from committee, to NOT support any designation or protection for the Lafayette.

[ghettopalmetto]

Like I said, why deal with conjecture when I have facts on my side?

I know where the developers of One Detroit Center wanted to go and couldn't, the Ford Auditorium site. Why? Because Ford Auditorium is still there and vacant 19 years after it was saved. Fantastic use of Riverfront property. I'm sure everyone around the world is green with envy over that visionary move.

They used the site they did because it was suitable. It wasn't as if they were licking their chops saying, "Damn. We want to construct this building, but the damned Greyhound station is there. We better wait until it gets demolished."

[DetroitDad]

If I'm not mistaken, that building next to the Broderick Tower had a partial failure because of the incompetence of the contractor working in the space, who created an unstable condition during their work.

Legally, you're not qualified to determine whether or not a building is failing or "collapsing on itself", and neither is the DEGC. Unless, of course, the DEGC would like to release the reports of the licensed Professional Engineers they hire, who seem to find all sorts of "structurally unsound" buildings in Detroit.

Is there anything to indicate that the structural system of the Lafayette Building could experience failure in the immediate future?

That was the Greektown Building. I don't believe work was going on at the Broderick. They had just set up scaffolding when it happened. The reason that was publicly given for demolishing the Statler and Adams were that they could not be saved due to the buildings essentially collapsing in on themselves.

The problems stated with the Lafayette is that it is dropping portions of it's facade. The general argument in the past has been whether this should be fixed without a developer, or whether that same money should be put towards simply demolishing the building.

[ghettopalmetto]

That was the Greektown Building. I don't believe work was going on at the Broderick. They had just set up scaffolding when it happened. The reason that was publicly given for demolishing the Statler and Adams were that they could not be saved due to the buildings essentially collapsing in on themselves.

Well, that's a Code enforcement issue then, is it not?

I'd LOVE to see an engineer's report for any of the buildings that Detroit has declared "structurally unsound" and spent public money to demolish.

The facade isn't part of the structural system of the building. If the City got out of the business of demolition-by-neglect and took care of their properties, perhaps they wouldn't represent such a huge liability problem.

[buildingsofdetroit]

[quote=kraig;33737]

Comerica Park -Vacant Row Houses

So you're just going to forget about all of the other stuff that was razed for Comerica Park? YMCA, Detroit College of Law, YWCA, Hotel Wolverine [[albeit, it was empty)...

[EastsideAl]

Let's see, a redeveloped Lafayette Building could, when times improve, be used as an office building, an apartment building, a hotel. On the other hand, a vacant lot could be used to, ummm, park cars for the non-existent offices, apartments, and hotels? But, hey, at least that vacant lot won't look like a vacant building. It'll just look flat.

Really, the amount of collective amnesia around here is stunning. It's like no lesson at all has been learned from the destruction of our City Hall, to be replaced by the hideous concrete emptiness known as Kennedy Square, or of the Kern Block, which then sat empty like big gaping life-sucking hole in the middle of downtown for 30 years, or of the historic Monroe Block, which is still an open lot in the middle of downtown awaiting its wonderful promised "redevelopment," or of Hudson's, replaced for 10 years now by a rubble filled hole. And anyone who touts the destruction of the historic Chene house [[Little Harry's) to be replaced by a freaking IHOP as an example of wonderful developmental vision must either be being facetious or have lost his/her mind. How many damn times do we have to learn this same lesson?

Demolition = emptiness, which is the precise antithesis of a city. It robs us of precious existing structures, the likes of which cannot be duplicated today at any price, destroys the urban fabric that IS our city, and disconnects us from our historic urban heritage. All for what, the vague promise that something might be built there in the future? Why are the recent lessons of the Book Cadillac and the Fort Shelby so easily dismissed? While the unfortunate and tragic template of the Kern Block, Monroe Block, etc., seem to be being so avidly followed over and over again? What the hell is wrong with us?

[kraig]

They used the site they did because it was suitable. It wasn't as if they were licking their chops saying, "Damn. We want to construct this building, but the damned Greyhound station is there. We better wait until it gets demolished."

"They used the site they did because it was suitable."

OMG, I don't believe it. Do you mean to tell me that developers actually built something on a suitable site? I find that very hard to believe. Why would a developer build
on a suitable site? Because, if they're not careful they might erect a building that fits into their specifications and suits their purposes better than an old building and cost their shareholders less money to build. Are you suggesting to me that someone wants to do business that way? Again, I find that very hard to believe.

[Trumpeteer]

How so?

give me some examples of buildings in those cities that were rehabbed like the Lafayette that are now thriving....ones that sat vacant for 13 years, and were rehabbed during a down ecconomy.

Virtually the entire riverfront of Savannah was rehabbed from an array of dilapidated, abandoned cotton warehouses that sat that way for almost 20 years until they were rehabbed into restaurants, hotels, and stores starting in 1972. This was during the Carter years that weren't great either.

[DetroitDad]

http://kunstlercast.com/

Check out episode #43 entitled Missing Teeth in the Urban Fabric and Episode #68 about Historic Preservation in the player on that site. They are relatively short audio clips you can listen to while responding here.

We should be trying to fix the missing tooth problem. At this point in our history, we should not be worsening it.

[ghettopalmetto]

Because, if they're not careful they might erect a building that fits into their specifications and suits their purposes better than an old building and cost their shareholders less money to build.

What information do you have to support these claims?

How do you figure it's appropriate to take one project and extrapolate that to cover the entire universe?

And why do you falsely imply that demolition of the old Greyhound station *caused* One Detroit Center to be constructed?

[rjlj]

Well said EastsideAl

[HazenPingree]

the problem is that we likely wont have developers that are willing to make that investment in this project. Again, if you can fund it, or find funding for it, then get to it.

Unlimited timetables dont work in development.

Unlimited timetables sure don't work... So, why would you demolish it? Demolishing it, you can never go back. If you leave it up, someone can come and request to develop on the site and demolish it... However, demolishing for the sake of "attracting investment" [[which is what they are doing) is %$#ing stupid. It never works. Donovan, Madison Lennox, Hudsons... need I continue? Our leadership needs to go. ALL OF IT.

[ghettopalmetto]

Virtually the entire riverfront of Savannah was rehabbed from an array of dilapidated, abandoned cotton warehouses that sat that way for almost 20 years until they were rehabbed into restaurants, hotels, and stores starting in 1972. This was during the Carter years that weren't great either.

Oh, but that was in Georgia. There's no way it would *ever* work in Michigan. Just because.

[kraig]

[quote=buildingsofdetroit;33779]

So you're just going to forget about all of the other stuff that was razed for Comerica Park? YMCA, Detroit College of Law, YWCA, Hotel Wolverine [[albeit, it was empty)...

Don't we now have a new, state of the art, YMCA? Oh, that's right, we have three.

[iheartthed]

But the real tragedy is that the city should not be using taxpayer funds to demolish historic structures downtown. I'm not even a hardcore preservationist on this issue. If a developer purchased the Lafayette and had a viable plan for the property -- other than a parking structure -- then I would support demolition [[that the developer paid for themselves). It doesn't make sense for the DEGC to spend public funds on demolition if their intention is to market the property to a private developer.

That is, IF their sole intention is to market it to a primary developer. But my hunch is that they are more interested in lining the pockets of some demolition contractor.

[DetroitDad]

So, what we have here in just about every American City is a tendency to demolish for an eyesore or something that isn't nearly as good or urban as the existing building. or a vacant lot. Many of these buildings aren't even used for parking anymore, like the Statler site. They just sit weed and crime covered.

[DetroitDad]

But the real tragedy is that the city should not be using taxpayer funds to demolish historic structures downtown. I'm not even a hardcore preservationist on this issue. If a developer purchased the Lafayette and had a viable plan for the property -- other than a parking structure -- then I would support demolition [[that the developer paid for themselves). It doesn't make sense for the DEGC to spend public funds on demolition if their intention is to market the property to a private developer.

That is, IF their sole intention is to market it to a primary developer. But my hunch is that they are more interested in lining the pockets of some demolition contractor.

Or the value of the Book-Cadillac Condos.

[DetroitDad]

I say put up some ad space on the building. Maybe some digital boards similar to Time Square in New York City. They would be visible from Campus Martius, straight down Cadillac Square, all the way to the Millender Center. Even better, have some sort of New Years type ball drop or other holiday gathering in front of the building. Maybe sync it up with the NYC Ball Drop, with screens on the building showing Time Square [[and maybe vice verse if it got big enough here). That would assure a lot of people looking at the ads and should surely fill the ad space.

Money could go to building maintenance, and maybe combine with the saved demolition money, could slowly go to bringing the building up to a more marketable state to developers.

[iheartthed]

Or the value of the Book-Cadillac Condos.

The Book Cadillac Condos will not increase in value if they are across the street from a vacant lot. And the DEGC would have to demolish virtually all of Washington Blvd if they believed that abandoned buildings were a drag on the B-C sales.

[EastsideAl]

They should've torn down Orchestra Hall when they had the chance. I mean, it sat vacant for all those years and they somehow left it standing. Another wonderful potential development opportunity lost!

Damn symphony...