Lafayette Building next on DEGC hit list?

[buildingsofdetroit]

A City Council committee voted today not to give the Lafayette interim designation. DEGC apparently raised the issue of falling scrap prices.
More details as they come.

[GREENTROIT]

Falling scrap prices. Not pieces. $$$.

[ghettopalmetto]

A City Council committee voted today not to give the Lafayette interim designation. DEGC apparently raised the issue of falling scrap prices.
More details as they come.

Glad to see the DEGC thinks that the City is available for whoring to the highest scrap bidder.

[heywood mccrakin]

Glad to see the DEGC thinks that the City is available for whoring to the highest scrap bidder.

a couple of questions that should be asked.

Is there someone who wants it?
Is there someone who can use it?
Is there an ECONOMIC reason to keep it [[other than the fact that you love the building)?
Is there someone to pay for it?

If you have all NOs, then tear it down, and sell it for scrap.

[GREENTROIT]

I would argue there is an economic reason to keep the building. The structure is presumably sound, and the building provides a framework for redevelopment. Redeveloping the Lafayette would be much cheaper than building a new structure on the same site. Unless the goal is to create a parking lot, I don't see why this needs to be destructed. I was in favor of demolishing Tiger Stadium because I didn't see a use for it, but I can envision ways that this building could be used. So if redeveloped into offices/lofts/apartments/retail, you will increase your tax base and also boost the economy by bringing in more dollars in the way of residents and employees. So I think there is an economic reason to keep it.

[heywood mccrakin]

I would argue there is an economic reason to keep the building. The structure is presumably sound, and the building provides a framework for redevelopment. Redeveloping the Lafayette would be much cheaper than building a new structure on the same site. Unless the goal is to create a parking lot, I don't see why this needs to be destructed. I was in favor of demolishing Tiger Stadium because I didn't see a use for it, but I can envision ways that this building could be used. So if redeveloped into offices/lofts/apartments/retail, you will increase your tax base and also boost the economy by bringing in more dollars in the way of residents and employees. So I think there is an economic reason to keep it.

the problem is that we likely wont have developers that are willing to make that investment in this project. Again, if you can fund it, or find funding for it, then get to it.

Unlimited timetables dont work in development.

[Fnemecek]

a couple of questions that should be asked.

Is there someone who wants it?
Is there someone who can use it?
Is there an ECONOMIC reason to keep it [[other than the fact that you love the building)?
Is there someone to pay for it?

If you have all NOs, then tear it down, and sell it for scrap.

The answer to all of those questions is maybe. No one will commit to the project - or even say whether or not it's viable - until after they've had an opportunity to go through the building and properly assess its current condition. Unfortunately, the DEGC hasn't been willing to allow such an inspection.

Without an inspection, all that anyone has is pure guess work.

[rjlj]

Sure, there are plenty of uses for it. One proposal could be that the DEGC is looking at building a brand new facility for DDOT administrative offices on Washington Blvd.. Why not use the Lafayette at a fraction of the cost of building new?



http://www.degc.org/current-project-...s_title%5d+ASC



As for recovering money from scrap, you are not going to get much for it. The DEGC's new philosophy reminds me of something. Truth can be stranger than fiction.



http://www.theonion.com/content/news...sold_for_scrap

[GREENTROIT]

the problem is that we likely wont have developers that are willing to make that investment in this project. Again, if you can fund it, or find funding for it, then get to it.

Unlimited timetables dont work in development.

Oh, you're absolutely right. My point is just that when the time comes that investors are ready to develop, it is better to have a structure already in place. Because it's cheaper it's more likely to be developed. Picture this: It's 2020 and Detroit has come back from the dead. Is a developer more likely to rehab the Lafayette or build an entirely new building on on a vacant lot where the Lafayette once stood? I think the rehab is a much more likely option, and an option I think the City should keep open.

[heywood mccrakin]

The answer to all of those questions is maybe. No one will commit to the project - or even say whether or not it's viable - until after they've had an opportunity to go through the building and properly assess its current condition. Unfortunately, the DEGC hasn't been willing to allow such an inspection.

Without an inspection, all that anyone has is pure guess work.

come on Frank....do you REALLY believe that people are lining up to invest in Detroit?

Not tryign to degrade you, but honestly, if you heard nationally from the real estate people I do, you would change your tune.

[Fnemecek]

come on Frank....do you REALLY believe that people are lining up to invest in Detroit?

Not trying to degrade you, but honestly, if you heard nationally from the real estate people I do, you would change your tune.

Of those national real estate people that you've heard from, how many have done an adaptive reuse of a historic structure?

This is important because there are a multitude of state and federal tax credits involved in a historic property deal that aren't applicable in other cases. They change what is viable deal and what isn't.

Contrary to what some folks believe, the historic preservation community does not go chasing after every demolition project, trying to stop it. If we don't think there's a realistic chance of making a deal work, we don't go after it.

[ghettopalmetto]

come on Frank....do you REALLY believe that people are lining up to invest in Detroit?

Not tryign to degrade you, but honestly, if you heard nationally from the real estate people I do, you would change your tune.

Well, nobody is building anything anywhere right now, so I suppose the smart thing to do is for every city in the country to demolish everything they can, right?

[rjlj]

A couple of questions that should be asked.

Is the building structurally unsound?
Can a building of the same size be built for less than the cost of re-developing the building utilizing federal and state historic tax credits?
Is there a plan to re-build a new structure as soon as the old one comes down?
Is the plan for economic development in Downtown Detroit to turn all old buildings into parking lots or vacant lots?
Is the plan for economic development in Downtown Detroit to turn all old buildings into strip malls resembling the suburbs?

If you have all NOs, then why tear it down?

[detmich]

How easily could that building be wired for secure digital business systems? I know an awful lot of buildings in NY Chicago DC and Boston that were beautiful but would have cost too much to bring up to the electronic requirements of modern business.

[bailey]

Because it's cheaper it's more likely to be developed.

How is rehabbing a 20-25 year derelict building "cheaper" than building new on a vacant lot a block away?

Picture this: It's 2020 and Detroit has come back from the dead. Is a developer more likely to rehab the Lafayette or build an entirely new building on on a vacant lot where the Lafayette once stood?

So that would make it 30? 35? years empty and deteriorating? What did the Book Caddy renovation cost? But that of course, ignores the ridiculousness of the assumption that by 2020, detroit will have "come back". You seriously think the demand will be there to renovate a building in the next 10 years, in Detroit, that wasn't there during the the last 20 [[of which the layfayette stood derelict) which contained some of the longest sustained periods of economic growth in the history of the country? What about anythigng happening here makes that 10 year time frame even remotely realistic?

:Look it's called triage.... save what you can, amputate what will kill the host. The Book was saved- barely. The Lafayette is dead and not coming back. The money isn't going to be there...the political will wont be there... and the demand surely isn't going to be there.

Instead of focusing on buildings that have be derelict longer than many of you have been alive, why not focus on the recently abandoned places like the Book Building? Focus on keeping that from falling into the same state as the Lafayette, the Broderick, lee plaza, Staler, UA, the whitney...etc.

[buildingsofdetroit]

The Lafayette has been abandoned since only 1997.

[Bearinabox]

How is rehabbing a 20-25 year derelict building "cheaper" than building new on a vacant lot a block away?



So that would make it 30? 35? years empty and deteriorating? What did the Book Caddy renovation cost? But that of course, ignores the ridiculousness of the assumption that by 2020, detroit will have "come back". You seriously think the demand will be there to renovate a building in the next 10 years, in Detroit, that wasn't there during the the last 20 [[of which the layfayette stood derelict) which contained some of the longest sustained periods of economic growth in the history of the country? What about anythigng happening here makes that 10 year time frame even remotely realistic?

:Look it's called triage.... save what you can, amputate what will kill the host. The Book was saved- barely. The Lafayette is dead and not coming back. The money isn't going to be there...the political will wont be there... and the demand surely isn't going to be there.

Instead of focusing on buildings that have be derelict longer than many of you have been alive, why not focus on the recently abandoned places like the Book Building? Focus on keeping that from falling into the same state as the Lafayette, the Broderick, lee plaza, Staler, UA, the whitney...etc.

How is the Lafayette going to "kill the host?" I don't understand that argument. I don't see how either demolishing the Lafayette or leaving it standing will have a perceptible impact on downtown's vitality in the immediate term.

[ghettopalmetto]

First, you tear it down becasue vacant buildings are only a drain on our resources. The cost to clear the urban dwellers, and the blight that it brings to a city are high.

Holding onto buildings for dear life becasue you think that something could be done with it is insane.

And yes, it would be nice if Detroit learned something from the suburbs. WELL RUN COMMUNITIES don't let their properties turn to rubble. WELL RUN COMMUNITIES dont have 40 year vacant properties being shown on TV as a case of "what happens when people are gone"

These horrible shopping malls seem to be raising money in the form of taxes to support local governments....something this building isnt doing.

And you are misstating something...I never said to turn ALL OLD BUILDINGS IN THE CITY into something else...just the ones that are city owned, not used, and have been vacant for 3+years.

Come up with the money...if you can't, then who do you think should pay for it?

If that kind of mentality prevailed throughout the U.S. you don't have modern-day Manhattan, Brooklyn, Philadelphia, Chicago, DC, Richmond, Charleston, Savannah, Baltimore, Miami Beach, San Francisco, and on and on and on.

[bailey]

My bad. I thought it actually closed late eighties. It just seemed abandoned.

[bailey]

How is the Lafayette going to "kill the host?" I don't understand that argument. I don't see how either demolishing the Lafayette or leaving it standing will have a perceptible impact on downtown's vitality in the immediate term.

No, you're right. Derelict buildings enhance the grittiness that is detroit. I'm sure the guests and condo owners at the Book really enjoy the premium view. I know I enjoy walking past it. It so enhances the area.

Would a dirt lot enhance the area? no. but a pocket park would.

[ghettopalmetto]

How so?

give me some examples of buildings in those cities that were rehabbed like the Lafayette that are now thriving....ones that sat vacant for 13 years, and were rehabbed during a down ecconomy.

Silly. Do you think the economy will never rebound?

I'm so tired of idiots like George Jackson taking ONE data point and extrapolating it into some kind of trend. "Well, gee, the economy sucks *today*, so we *have* to tear down this building on which we're not spending any money."

[iheartthed]

How so?

give me some examples of buildings in those cities that were rehabbed like the Lafayette that are now thriving....ones that sat vacant for 13 years, and were rehabbed during a down ecconomy.

So the choice is to either tear it down now or rehab it? Is there some developer lined up that is hell-bent on developing this one piece of land, as opposed to the dozens, if not hundreds of vacant lots sitting untouched in downtown Detroit? Lots where buildings were razed in the name of progress... Except nothing actually ever progressed.

Detroit's problem isn't that this vacant building sits there. Detroit's problem is why this building is sitting there vacant. Tearing the Lafayette building down won't fix the why.

[bailey]

Silly. Do you think the economy will never rebound?

The economy rebounding and Detroit "coming back" are two different things. If the last 20 years hasn't shown that, well, you are ignoring reality.

[DetroitDad]

I try, but I just don't always care about the importance of maintaining old buildings or nostalgia. I have an appreciation for it, but in an unusable building? Sorry!

Now what I do care about is quality of life for employees, employers, and residents in Downtown Detroit. I am a resident and employee in Downtown Detroit.

I got to walk along Michigan Avenue between Cass and Campus Martius Park several times this week. It is the only main street in Downtown that doesn't look like an old lady after a bar brawl with her teeth knocked out of her head. With the construction of the The Griswold Structure [[Book-Cadillac Garage) the Rosa Parks Transit Center, and the Earnest and Young Building, Michigan Avenue is quickly becoming one of my favorite streets to walk. The variety of architecture is amazing, especially the height and semblance of the Book-Cadillac, The Griswold Structure, and the Lafayette Building.

Demolishing the Lafayette Building with out replacement would simply be removing the only vacant building down on this stretch for a vacant lot. This stretch of Michigan Avenue is arguably a model that other Detroit city streets should someday resemble. The affects this demolition has on the urban feel and environment should be considered. Why not keep the building until a replacement is possible. Please give our Downtown Detroit residents, employees, and employers anything but another unwalkable street and missing tooth/vacant lot, which are considered the only thing worse than abandoned buildings by most that wish to live in urban centers.

Please keep trying to attract young wannabe urbanites in Michigan and Detroit. Save the freshly created street wall on Michigan Avenue in Downtown Detroit.

[kraig]

Here's a thought for any historic conservancy groups out there. Identify a building that you feel is worth saving, develop a business plan, identify funding, and get the property before it falls into the hands of the DEGC.