Southern California spends a few bucks on transit...

**canuck** · April-06-12, 12:36 PM

Some Sprawlsvilles are getting it.

http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/ae...rnia_make.html

**DetroitPlanner** · April-06-12, 01:41 PM

My sister moved to Orange County a few years back. She is in an area that is sprawl city. I am amazed by much of thier transportation system. Land scarcity forces them to move things closer to the street and have minimal parking spaces, while roads are built with all users in mind. Nice, wide streets are par for the course. Another issue that comes into play is that California has strict air quality laws because so many of its urban areas are in smog bowls. Michigan does not have this issue as our air is getting cleaner as industry gets more efficient and we don't have large cities in small valleys. These roads however are wide to function not just for autos, but for bike lanes, and bus pull outs that have few areas of conflict. She is less than two miles from a train station that will take her to the heart of either LA or San Diego.

Compare this to what you see around here and it is amazing. Of course transportation dollars go farther as you are building things multimodal to begin with, and there is no freeze thaw cycle to deal with so roads last longer. They also have more ways of funding transportation than we do, with tolls, sales taxes, ecetera.

**iheartthed** · April-06-12, 02:07 PM

Related: http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate...ew-yorkify/?hp

**Detroitnerd** · April-06-12, 02:07 PM

Oh, those FOOLISH Californians! Don't they realize that we don't need no stinkin' transit, and that all those taxes are going to DRIVE AWAY BUSINESS! Stupid choo-choo trains!

**Detroitdave** · April-06-12, 02:16 PM

This is sad ! :-[[ Sad for Detroit ! Southern California gets it ! They are whiling to adopt a $524 BILLION dollar transit plan to invest in their infrastructure and we can even put in one line up Woodward ? and with the help of the Federal Government paying for most it ?
This really shows the way some state/cities think forward and some are held back.
This shows anyone ,thinking or whiling to move to Socal ,they are thinking about the future .
I know our council was complaining about the cost after it was built , but NO mass transit system in the WORLD pays for it self and in typical Detroit fashion they still don't get it ! :-[[ and we are whiling to send our taxes dollars to Socal, instead of bringing our dollars back home ? I just don't get it ?
We cant even get a regional system up and running and still can't pay for the crummy bus system we have , something should be telling them ,"maybe we have been going about this all wrong", but they insist on doing the same thing :-[[.
Hopefully Dan gilbert , Penske, and other can take the lead in this , because the city and citizens of Detroit , will NEVER get it . :-[[

**canuck** · April-06-12, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitdave

This is sad ! :-[[ Sad for Detroit ! Southern California gets it ! They are whiling to adopt a $524 BILLION dollar transit plan to invest in their infrastructure and we can even put in one line up Woodward ? and with the help of the Federal Government paying for most it ?
This really shows the way some state/cities think forward and some are held back.
This shows anyone ,thinking or whiling to move to Socal ,they are thinking about the future .
I know our council was complaining about the cost after it was built , but NO mass transit system in the WORLD pays for it self and in typical Detroit fashion they still don't get it ! :-[[ and we are whiling to send our taxes dollars to Socal, instead of bringing our dollars back home ? I just don't get it ?
We cant even get a regional system up and running and still can't pay for the crummy bus system we have , something should be telling them ,"maybe we have been going about this all wrong", but they insist on doing the same thing :-[[.
Hopefully Dan gilbert , Penske, and other can take the lead in this , because the city and citizens of Detroit , will NEVER get it . :-[[

Well this may be [[by the sheer size of this proposal) a signal to Michigan's governor to step on it and give Detroit's region an endowed transit agency.

**Gistok** · April-06-12, 02:51 PM

I'm all for Mass Transit in metro Detroit... and this sounds good for Southern California.... BUT... where are they going to get that kind of money?? 524 Billion??? Lets get real here... especially when they have this 'little" problem to deal with...
http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2010/b...look_2010.aspx

California can't print their own money....

**canuck** · April-06-12, 04:47 PM

It sounds like they probably order more than a couple of buses for that amount, eh?

I dont know. I guess they are looking at making improvements that will make their communities more competitive with not only other states, but other countries. Their GDP can handle some pressure. States like California are still a lot less endebted than Ontario and Quebec, and have a far bigger economy.

Their aim is to make the sprawly stuff of SoCal more sustainable I guess.

SteveJ · April-06-12, 04:54 PM

Well another article states that they are 290 billion short and that 524 billion is for total projects including roads for the next 25 years. This is like the Detroit City Council approving a trillion dollar plan and having no money.

**Packman41** · April-06-12, 08:22 PM

I must be getting old. The title of this thread mentions, “…a few dollars.”

I remember, back in the day, when a half a TRILLION dollars was a lot of money.

Today, “a few dollars” sounds like a rounding error.

**Mikeg** · April-07-12, 06:58 AM

From that blog post [[emphasis is mine):

While Washington politicians continue to point fingers about high gas prices, local leaders in Los Angeles have actually done something about long commutes. SCAG has approved a plan that will save people money, shorten their commutes and create a cleaner environment.

SCAG is the Southern California Association of Governments and all they have accomplished here is the approval of a "plan". Too many people, including the blogger, incorrectly equate a plan with action, when in fact one is simply a prerequisite for the other. Words are cheap, results are dear.

The blogger even has the impudence to "point fingers" by taking a shot at Washington over their inaction, while then going on to confuse the approval of a plan with actual results.

Southern California is still a long way from actually spending "a few bucks on transit".

**canuck** · April-07-12, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by Mikeg

From that blog post [[emphasis is mine):
SCAG is the Southern California Association of Governments and all they have accomplished here is the approval of a "plan". Too many people, including the blogger, incorrectly equate a plan with action, when in fact one is simply a prerequisite for the other. Words are cheap, results are dear.

The blogger even has the impudence to "point fingers" by taking a shot at Washington over their inaction, while then going on to confuse the approval of a plan with actual results.

Southern California is still a long way from actually spending "a few bucks on transit".

True, it is just a plan, but it is still something. They have light rail, a subway, and a relatively good bus system in L.A. San Diego is pretty spread out too, light rail might do the trick there too. The fact that they want more options is a healthy choice.

**j to the jeremy** · April-07-12, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by canuck

True, it is just a plan, but it is still something. They have light rail, a subway, and a relatively good bus system in L.A. San Diego is pretty spread out too, light rail might do the trick there too. The fact that they want more options is a healthy choice.

I don't care if they have the money, Cali is broke all the time and still passes legislation that they know they should, and guess what, sometimes it really gets done. I'd rather have that than a gov't like we have, where everyone is too scared to do anything that couldn't be done in 1950

**canuck** · April-07-12, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by j to the jeremy

I don't care if they have the money, Cali is broke all the time and still passes legislation that they know they should, and guess what, sometimes it really gets done. I'd rather have that than a gov't like we have, where everyone is too scared to do anything that couldn't be done in 1950

Yes, by making these decisions, they also are open to choices along the way.
There is money out there you know as well as I do. They are also competing with Texas cities sprawl. A lot of businesses have left California for Texas, but better designed urban areas will be the deciding factor for investors in relocating companies as time goes by, and the cost of fossil fuels rise.

Both Texas and California have high speed rail in the works also.

**DetroitPlanner** · April-07-12, 08:45 PM

Its not "just a plan". CalTRANS has the funding to work on it. We don't have any funding mechanisms here. Heck we can't even get a coordinated transit authority through state legislature. Plans need political and financial support to become active.