Is Robert Davis helping or hurting Detroit ?

**Detroitdave** · April-02-12, 06:28 PM

Is political activist Robert Davis helping or hurting the city of Detroit.
First off Robert Davis does have a right to do what he is doing , however, with time running out and Detroit with very few options.
the Governor has said by Thursday we have ONLY two options.
1) EM
2)declare that Detroit is not under sever financial stress.
We all know Detroit is beyond sever financial stress, now is not the time to grandstanding and getting your face out in the press.
Something need to be done YESTERDAY and I don't hear Mr Davis coming up with ANY options ? , just more hold ups.
I know we want it done right and we've had decades to get it right , guess what time is up!
EVERYTHING has a time limit and we have reach ours.
The sky isn't falling , but we can't pay our bills and we all know what happens when you can't pay your bills ?We can go back and forth on this ALL we want , but time stops for no man !
When time is up time is up / what are you going to do ?

**townonenorth** · April-02-12, 08:49 PM

I hope that he drives the process to where he seems to want it to go, to bankruptcy court.

**Scottathew** · April-02-12, 09:05 PM

I do agree with his Open Meting Act objections.

His work today seems to be more obstructionist in nature.

**professorscott** · April-02-12, 09:40 PM

Well, let's see. Detroit's only options are a consent agreement, emergency manager or municipal bankruptcy.

Mr. Davis seems determined to block a consent agreement or an emergency manager, so his goal seems to be to force Detroit into a municipal bankruptcy.

Nothing, and I mean nothing, would be worse for the union employees who work for the people of Detroit than a municipal bankruptcy. So calling Mr. Davis a "union activist" seems ironic. He is working very hard to make absolutely sure the union employees of Detroit are put into the worst possible position.

As for the actual question on the thread - is this better or worse for Detroit - it actually doesn't matter. Most of the same things will happen, and soon, whether they are imposed on the City by a consent agreement, by an emergency manager, or by a trustee of the court in bankruptcy. All the smoke and flash about what is best, or destroying democracy, or any of the other noise being made, is all just posturing.

**corktownyuppie** · April-02-12, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by professorscott

Well, let's see. Detroit's only options are a consent agreement, emergency manager or municipal bankruptcy.

Mr. Davis seems determined to block a consent agreement or an emergency manager, so his goal seems to be to force Detroit into a municipal bankruptcy.

Nothing, and I mean nothing, would be worse for the union employees who work for the people of Detroit than a municipal bankruptcy. So calling Mr. Davis a "union activist" seems ironic. He is working very hard to make absolutely sure the union employees of Detroit are put into the worst possible position.

As for the actual question on the thread - is this better or worse for Detroit - it actually doesn't matter. Most of the same things will happen, and soon, whether they are imposed on the City by a consent agreement, by an emergency manager, or by a trustee of the court in bankruptcy. All the smoke and flash about what is best, or destroying democracy, or any of the other noise being made, is all just posturing.

I see all these signs at the meetings saying "VOTE NO". I want to bring a big sign that says, "If you VOTE NO, then WHAT HAPPENS NEXT?"

My frustration at the process is quickly superseded by the knowledge that in less than 8 weeks, all these foolish notions of racist motivations will be eclipsed by an empty bank account.

And when that happens, I hope that Lansing says, "We also VOTE NO. Your move."

**Novine** · April-03-12, 06:00 AM

Davis's legal efforts wouldn't have mattered if Andy Dillon and company had followed the law. The fact that the state can't even manage to follow the law that they wrote doesn't bode well for anyone.

Buy American · April-03-12, 08:06 AM

He is hurting Detroit's chances. The longer his efforts delay an agreement the worse off Detroit will be.

**coracle** · April-03-12, 09:23 AM

He's hurting the State, and hoping the State will be forced to give Detroit the money at the eleventh hour to save face and avert social disorder.

**Novine** · April-03-12, 09:38 AM

"Nothing, and I mean nothing, would be worse for the union employees who work for the people of Detroit than a municipal bankruptcy. So calling Mr. Davis a "union activist" seems ironic. He is working very hard to make absolutely sure the union employees of Detroit are put into the worst possible position."

This may be true but I don't think many in the union ranks actually think this is the case. Under the alternatives, everybody gets paid but the unions. In bankruptcy, the unions seem to believe that while they're going to take a haircut, so will the creditors, contractors, city administrators and others. I think part of their calculus is that there's no point making concessions at this point. If a bankruptcy judge is going to whack pay and benefits, they can start the process there, not go into already having conceded a lot. It's a dangerous game to play but seeing how Bing has botched things and the zero trust that the state has with them, I can see how they've ended up at this point.

**Novine** · April-03-12, 09:40 AM

It's unclear how this would come into play with a municipal bankruptcy but some background on how union contracts may or may not be voided in court.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/03/...ion-contracts/

**corktownyuppie** · April-03-12, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by Novine

"Nothing, and I mean nothing, would be worse for the union employees who work for the people of Detroit than a municipal bankruptcy. So calling Mr. Davis a "union activist" seems ironic. He is working very hard to make absolutely sure the union employees of Detroit are put into the worst possible position."

This may be true but I don't think many in the union ranks actually think this is the case.

This is one reason why I'm frustrated. Novine has a good point here, and it's one that has not gotten any airplay. Which would better for the unions in the long run? Bankruptcy? or an EM? or a Consent Agreement?

THIS is the discussion that should be occupying those who are leaders of the community...whether that be Lansing, City Council, the Mayor's office, activist leaders, community leaders, union leaders....

Instead, what do we get? Threats to burn the city down.

So, can anyone make a case that bankruptcy is actually a better option for the unions? Or that it's better for the city? or both?

**GPCharles** · April-04-12, 06:42 AM

I keep reading about "activist Robert Davis."

Who is he, what is his background and, most importantly, who is funding him? All of these law suits, and the attendant attorney's fees, are not cheap!

**ragnarok1981** · April-05-12, 12:13 PM

Robert Davis should not be allowed to file any of these lawsuits in my opinion. He is from Highland Park, not Detroit and so I think he should not have any standing in this situation. Aside from that he has been a member of the highland park school board for some time now and look how well that system has worked. The guy seems hellbent on just stirring up trouble and cares little about the consequences.

**Wesley Mouch** · April-05-12, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by Novine

"Nothing, and I mean nothing, would be worse for the union employees who work for the people of Detroit than a municipal bankruptcy. So calling Mr. Davis a "union activist" seems ironic. He is working very hard to make absolutely sure the union employees of Detroit are put into the worst possible position."

This may be true but I don't think many in the union ranks actually think this is the case. Under the alternatives, everybody gets paid but the unions. In bankruptcy, the unions seem to believe that while they're going to take a haircut, so will the creditors, contractors, city administrators and others. I think part of their calculus is that there's no point making concessions at this point. If a bankruptcy judge is going to whack pay and benefits, they can start the process there, not go into already having conceded a lot. It's a dangerous game to play but seeing how Bing has botched things and the zero trust that the state has with them, I can see how they've ended up at this point.

Novine's points are most valid.

The motivation of the Unions is really interesting. It would be best if their interests were aligned with the city's residents in general. But they're not.

Union Management has interest in maximizing revenues from dues. That comes from higher wages and higher employment. In addition, they get more support from vocal members if they stonewall and delay -- while all the time getting more dues money.

Its also worth noting that the Union does not see this as a Detroit-only game. They need to maintain position for the larger battles to come in other cities and states. They do better by letting the Detroit workers swing for the fences. It supports their income in other places, even if those workers lose their jobs and/or income. Look at American Axle [[Detroit/Hamtramck) or Caterpillar [[London ON) for lessons in how Unions are willing to let their members go down fighting.

**Wheels** · April-05-12, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by GPCharles

I keep reading about "activist Robert Davis."

Who is he, what is his background and, most importantly, who is funding him? All of these law suits, and the attendant attorney's fees, are not cheap!

Here is a little in-site to his background. I personally think he is just in it for the attention. It worked for Jeffery Fieger.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...ETRO/203130364

**adamjab19** · April-05-12, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Wheels

Here is a little in-site to his background. I personally think he is just in it for the attention. It worked for Jeffery Fieger.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...ETRO/203130364

I think that is what is propelling these loudmouths is the attention they are getting. Sure it's nice for people to have an opinion and a voice but as stated above they are offering no valid counteroffers besides let us fix it which is not an option.

**firstandten** · April-05-12, 02:53 PM

I think Mr. Davis is helping Detroit. In most cases he is making sure the process is being followed properly. However if I were advising him I would tell him to pick his battles carefully. The slope is very slippery from activist to obstructionist.

**BigD** · April-05-12, 03:15 PM

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120405/METRO01/204050465/Highland-Park-School-Board-member-Davis-indicted-federal-theft-charges?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

Just another crook.

Buy American · April-05-12, 03:18 PM

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/H...z/-/index.html

Here's your Robert Davis.

**coracle** · April-05-12, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by firstandten

I think Mr. Davis is helping Detroit. In most cases he is making sure the process is being followed properly. However if I were advising him I would tell him to pick his battles carefully. The slope is very slippery from activist to obstructionist.

I see he's just been indicted on a Federal charge for thieving $125k. What a bad joke he's turned out to be. Detroit can certainly pick um.

**firstandten** · April-05-12, 03:24 PM

yep ! Just saw it, if true this is very disappointing

**Wesley Mouch** · April-05-12, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by coracle

I see he's just been indicted on a Federal charge for thieving $125k. What a bad joke he's turned out to be. Detroit can certainly pick um.

Indicted is not convicted nor guilty.

So far, he's only guilty of stupidity -- right now, just one count.

**1953** · April-05-12, 03:39 PM

I'd say he is guilty of more than one count of stupidity, no matter which way this indictment turns out.

**Detwa** · April-05-12, 03:42 PM

I actually heard of these forthcoming charges about a year ago, then nothing else. I thought my ears were deceiving me when I heard it on the radio. Now a year later the indictment finally came down. I admit I'm curious about the timing, but he does seem to be a little bit of a gnat. What's his motivation? And what's his real job besides finding needles in haystacks? I hope the charges aren't true though.

**Wesley Mouch** · April-05-12, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by Detwa

I actually heard of these forthcoming charges about a year ago, then nothing else. I thought my ears were deceiving me when I heard it on the radio. Now a year later the indictment finally came down. I admit I'm curious about the timing, but he does seem to be a little bit of a gnat. What's his motivation? And what's his real job besides finding needles in haystacks? I hope the charges aren't true though.

Well, if you think you'll need to play the race card later when you really need it, you should lead with it.

[[Charge of stupidity withdrawl, replaced with respect for his planning.)