8 new casinos proposed: Long shot or good bet for Michigan?

**begingri** · April-01-12, 10:25 PM

By: Matt Helms
Detroit Free Press Staff Writer

A new casino would rise on Detroit's east riverfront next to the Renaissance Center, or across from Cobo Center at the shuttered Pontchartrain Hotel, with more hotel rooms and gaming space than any of the city's three existing gambling halls.

Another would be built on the grounds of the Pontiac Silverdome, underused since the Detroit Lions moved to Ford Field. It would be joined by two more suburban casinos: one in Romulus at Vining and Wick roads, less than a mile from Metro Airport, and in Clinton Township on Hall Road at Gratiot, close to Macomb County's bustling M-59 shopping and restaurant strip.

Continued at: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...=2012204010485

Also, a good picture that summarizes the proposal: http://www.freep.com/assets/freep/gr...4187394331.JPG

**professorscott** · April-01-12, 10:35 PM

Why not just go pure free-market on this issue and stop favoring the politically connected? Any damn body who wants to open a casino can do it, anywhere they can, subject to local zoning [[that is to say, not in the middle of a residential subdivision).

Then tax the bejeesus out of it and let the capitalist competition begin!

Really, unless you own a casino, who the hell cares how many there are? Why is a casino any worse [[or better) for a neighborhood than a tavern or a party store?

**313WX** · April-01-12, 11:06 PM

Yet again, the state is fucking over Detroit with this proposal.

Why would they approve the development of THREE ADDITIONAL CASINOS in the suburbs and exburbs and force the already established casinos in Detroit [[neither of which are doing as good as originally expected) to compete with them? Lord knows suburbanites will look for every excuse to NOT go into Detroit, and this would be a convenient excuse. They're essentially are forced to at this time, since the closest gambling institutions are all centralized in Detroit and its pure hell getting over to Windsor [[which helps Detroit).

As a good analog, see the impact Northland, Fairlane and Eastland had on Woodward Avenue.

That said, I have mixed feelings about the casinos in Grands Rapids, Cadillac, Lansing and Saginaw. On one hand, that means fewer people from other parts of the state will have one less reason to visit and spend money in Detroit. On the other hand, this would generate additional tax revenue for those communities.

**Hypestyles** · April-01-12, 11:21 PM

I don't know. Recognizing that a certain number of temp jobs are created with construction and some permanent when it's done-- I fail to see a drastic upgrade in much of the surrounding neighborhoods where the casinos are. Greektown was already Greektown. But where the MGM is now, [[edge of corktown?) it doesn't seem like there have been a drastic jump in nearby redevelopments. The old MGM site still sits, despite supposedly being the planned new police/fire headquarters.

The same goes for the Grand River/trumbull area near the Motor City Casino. If the nearby reinvestment was to spike, it certainly hasn't yet.

Overall I'm unsold on trying to turn Detroit into Vegas-Midwest. There should be other entertainment-industry models that can be explored. I want to see an amusement park. Too bad that the rug was pulled out on film, that could have been leveraged to encourage creation of more small or mid-size studios, post-production facilities, etc.

If these Detroit casinos happen, they should commit a fixed percentage of profits to rebuild and support Detroit schools.

**Wesley Mouch** · April-02-12, 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by professorscott

Why not just go pure free-market on this issue and stop favoring the politically connected? Any damn body who wants to open a casino can do it, anywhere they can, subject to local zoning [[that is to say, not in the middle of a residential subdivision).

Then tax the bejeesus out of it and let the capitalist competition begin!

Really, unless you own a casino, who the hell cares how many there are? Why is a casino any worse [[or better) for a neighborhood than a tavern or a party store?

Prof, you stole the words out of my mouth.

The current artificial scarcity was created to protect the casino operators so they could recoup their investment. Now that casinos are proven cash cows, its time to open this up. [[I would have followed your model from the start.)

There's no justification now for government protection of monopolies [[and there never was).

**Wesley Mouch** · April-02-12, 12:42 AM

Originally Posted by Hypestyles

<snip>
If these Detroit casinos happen, they should commit a fixed percentage of profits to rebuild and support Detroit schools.

The Michigan Lottery proved that this idea is pointless. They promised money to schools. Told us how great it would be. Better schools. More books. Smaller classes.

And amazingly, they did give the money all to the schools.

Of course in the best government way, they then took the same amount of support away with the other hand -- as I've heard it told. Can anyone confirm this? Typical government. Not to be trusted with money.

**Gistok** · April-02-12, 12:54 AM

This idea is DOA.... it ain't gonna happen... the Republican's in the state legislature aren't all that keen on casinos to begin with...

Just 2 or so years ago there was a proposal for casinos in Romulus and Port Huron...we all know where that went. Some developer wants to have more casinos... not gonna happen.

The Indian tribes and the Detroit casinos have the money to lobby against that idea big time...

Occurrence · April-02-12, 02:36 AM

If the economy is so bad, where are all these people getting money to loose at the casino?

**CLAUDE G** · April-02-12, 02:40 AM

I have mixed feelings...

#1 I can't see how these places would be hurt to make a profit. Maybe a little increased competition would give us a better odds and an increased chance of winning. Look at all the Casinos in Vegas, and the odds are better than what they are here.

#2 I don't agree with the Casinos in the Suburbs, they should all stay in Detroit.

**davewindsor** · April-02-12, 07:34 AM

This is a real long long shot by a lobby group being, for one, that Governor Snyder is opposed to it in the article.

If it had any chance, why isn't Moroun involved with putting Michigan Central Station on that proposal list? He's proposed turning MCS into a casino before and he has the money. Moroun is the king of longshots. Yet, he doesn't even want to be part of this lobby effort?

That shows how much realizable value this effort has.

**ordinary** · April-02-12, 07:53 AM

For heaven's sake, can't we do something productive around here?! What a crock. It's just a giant money exchange.

**Wheels** · April-02-12, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by Occurrence

If the economy is so bad, where are all these people getting money to loose at the casino?

Exactly!
I vote we make it a law anyone on State Aid, Bridge card, or any other government hand out, loose that benefit. See how many show up at the Casino in Detroit then.

**southen** · April-02-12, 08:52 AM

i really hope this gets squashed. if it doesnt though i am going to be furious if they build it on the east riverfront. that area has so much potential and i think a casino would ruin the district completely.

**canuck** · April-02-12, 09:43 AM

They should plan for a love ranch too because Windsor will probably put one up next to its casino, now that it's legit...

**DetroitPlanner** · April-02-12, 09:57 AM

The Detroit plan has them putting 150,000 sq ft of gaming on the site of the Pontch. How is that going to work? I am sure it is also going to want a hotel, what will they do build a second tower just for 'gaming'? Where the heck will they put the transportation? only so much room available for parking and buses!

**Johnnny5** · April-02-12, 10:24 AM

Does anyone honestly think the Detroit casinos [[Or these proposed new casinos) bring a worthwhile amount of dollars into our local economy? For the most part the people I have run into at the Detroit casinos are Metro Detroiters. Sure there are some gamblers from surrounding states, but with new casinos opening in Toledo and Cleveland that number is going to fall fairly quickly. Every dollar spent inside one of the Detroit casinos is one dollar that is not going to other local businesses or to the Michigan Lottery.
As someone else mentioned all one has to do is look at the areas surrounding Motor City and MGM and see the lack of spin off businesses that were supposed to arise. The casinos have done nothing to revitalize the neighborhoods they are in, and honestly have probably hurt them. The bars and restaurants inside the casinos poach customers by offering discounted and free meals, while surrounding places close their doors [[Carl's and countless establishments in Greektown).
The problem is the State and City government are now hopelessly addicted to the sin taxes these places provide and they'll do anything for more.

.
.

**D_Town** · April-02-12, 10:26 AM

I hope not...One thing I wished is that Detroit made Motorcity, MGM ,and Greektown stay in one area together near the people over to be more like a casino district.

**Detroitnerd** · April-02-12, 11:37 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but Detroiters never wanted the casinos. In election after election, they rejected casino gambling in Detroit. They had to have a statewide election to saddle Detroit with the casinos.

**EastsideAl** · April-02-12, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but Detroiters never wanted the casinos. In election after election, they rejected casino gambling in Detroit. They had to have a statewide election to saddle Detroit with the casinos.

Absolutely true. Lansing though, particularly during the Engler administration, saw casinos as a way to reduce the paltry, but unpopular, funding they sent to those "scary" people down in Detroit. And they sold the statewide vote that way. So, no matter how we actually felt about it, casinos we got.

Now someone wants to add even more casinos? Lovely. We can suck even more life out of our city into hermetically sealed corporate clockless spaces surrounded by parking lots.

**Gistok** · April-02-12, 01:07 PM

Don't bother losing any sleep over this... it ain't gonna happen.

And another thing... those buses from Ohio and Indiana will still be rolling up to the Detroit casinos, regardless of what happens in Toledo. It all depends on the "COMPS" that casinos offer. Greektown Casino offers comps for neighboring restaurants as well. As for the casinos being fortresses unto themselves... that's no surprise.

What I don't get is when people who go to Greektown without going to the Casino [[like myself)... how is the Casino affecting people from NOT going to the restaurants? It's the restaurants themselves [[many were dives to begin with) who are selling out to other interests. It's all about $$$. If someone offers you more money than your business brings in... then guess what is going to happen... the owners will sell. My biggest disappointment was the loss of Trappers Alley as nothing more than a Casino vestibule... but it was dying before the casino came along anyway.

But this whole discussion about more casinos is much ado about nothing... because it just ain't gonna happen. The existing Detroit and Indian casinos [[plus the republican controlled legislature) will see to that...

And the saying should be "every dollar spent in a Detroit Casino is a dollar not going to Casino Windsor or Mt. Pleasant"....

**canuck** · April-02-12, 01:28 PM

Casinos would be the perfect context to let loose mrs Gilbert's gogo designs on Detroit.

**iheartthed** · April-02-12, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

And another thing... those buses from Ohio and Indiana will still be rolling up to the Detroit casinos, regardless of what happens in Toledo. It all depends on the "COMPS" that casinos offer. Greektown Casino offers comps for neighboring restaurants as well. As for the casinos being fortresses unto themselves... that's no surprise.

I wouldn't be so confident that Detroit casinos won't take a big hit from Ohio casinos. Detroit hasn't materialized into a destination outside of casino gambling, unlike Vegas, so there really isn't an experience that someone from Cleveland or Toledo would trek up to Detroit for that they couldn't experience at home.

There is a similar battle for casino bucks going on here in the northeast that the NYTimes just wrote about:

Foxwoods has had its own in-state competition since 1996 from the Mohegan Sun, which lies just west, across the Thames River. Owned by the Mohegan Tribe, it is a more modest property, though only by comparison — Mohegan is the second-largest casino in the hemisphere. In October, a casino opened at the Aqueduct racetrack in Queens with 4,500 slot machines, and Gov. Andrew Cuomo is pushing an expansion plan for the site that includes a hotel and what would be the nation’s largest convention center. And lawmakers in Massachusetts recently voted to issue licenses for a slots parlor and three full resort casinos — an especially ominous development for the Connecticut casinos, which draw about 30 percent of their clientele from Massachusetts, because many gamblers are ruled by what is known in the business as the law of gravity. They stop where the pull is the strongest, which is usually the nearest casino.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/18/ma...pagewanted=all

I'm personally beginning to wish that they'd never allowed casinos to ever be built outside of Vegas.

**Gistok** · April-02-12, 02:24 PM

One other draw for casinos is the comps... whoever offers the best comps, gets a lot of business. I have several neighbors who still take a bus up to Mt. Pleasant, because they feel the comps are better there than here in Detroit. It's not as simple as the closest location will get the business...

**Gistok** · April-02-12, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by canuck

Casinos would be the perfect context to let loose mrs Gilbert's gogo designs on Detroit.

Her "design" involvement reminds me of how it was in the 1920s for the Fox Theatre Chain. William Fox's wife Eve Leo Fox was also interested in the fashions of her husbands movie palaces. She traveled the world looking for just the right stuff for his exotic palaces, and C. Howard Crane's 3 Fox Theatre's [[Detroit, St. Louis and Brooklyn [[razed)) were filled with some of her finds and artistic flair. Those Camelback chairs at the top of the Grand Staircase were one of her middle eastern finds. When Thomas Lamb was designing the San Francisco Fox [[razed), he avoided Eve Leo Fox at all cost, and filled his palatial theatre with more tastelful furnishings and bric-a-brac.

**poobert** · April-02-12, 02:42 PM

Everyone here pretty much summed it up, and I do think it is DOA. What an idiotic idea.

I don't think most suburbanites mind coming to the city for the casinos, at least I like to think they don't. They're the most hermetically sealed environments that even the most gittery suburbanites would be comfortable in. I do, however, think that this propsal is designed to exploit our hyper-divided nature as a region, to appeal to that very sentiment of not going to Detroit and keeping the casino "at home" in Jerkwater Park or wherever.

I know Detroiters in particular are keen to hate on the casinos. I lived in the shadow of one in Briggs and they do absolutely nothing for the neighborhood. However they bring in millions to the city and what never gets mentioned are the jobs.

Don't get me wrong, three casinos is enough, but in a city starved of jobs, these are thousands of reasonably well paying jobs that require a varying levels of skill. Most of them are union. My neighbor accross the street earns a good, full time living working at the casino. He's a great guy. He also happens to be young and black. I'm not sure what he'd be doing otherwise, but in my opinion more localized employment that pays a decent wage without requiring a doctorate would solve a LOT of social ills.