What is the point of the G 20 protesters?

**President Sekou** · April-01-09, 07:06 PM

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...,5474335.story

So far one person has died, they have clogged up one of my favorite cities protesting what? Capitalism? America? What is going on over there and what is the point?

**Pam** · April-01-09, 07:18 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe...ests.saturday/

**d.mcc** · April-01-09, 07:19 PM

My guess would be rampant consumerism and the ability of the G20 countries to have a massive effect on global production and human rights standards around the globe...

**Flanders** · April-01-09, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by President Sekou

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...,5474335.story

So far one person has died, they have clogged up one of my favorite cities protesting what? Capitalism? America? What is going on over there and what is the point?

Unlike jaded and sheeplike Americans, they dislike getting anal-raped economically by politicians and the ultra-wealthy global corporate capitalists.

**d.mcc** · April-01-09, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by Flanders

Unlike jaded and sheeplike Americans, they dislike getting anal-raped economically by politicians and the ultra-wealthy global corporate capitalists.

Yeah...I guess government sanctioned anal-rape would be a solid reason to protest...

ccbatson · April-01-09, 08:10 PM

Protesting socialism in America actually. Evidence of a major backfire for Obama's agenda.

**d.mcc** · April-01-09, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

Protesting socialism in America actually. Evidence of a major backfire for Obama's agenda.

Really...is that what they are protesting??? Once again...when did socialism become a stigma???

**Kevgoblu** · April-01-09, 09:27 PM

They're protesting being anally raped by a bunch of free market extremists, devoid of any moral conviction

**d.mcc** · April-01-09, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by Kevgoblu

They're protesting being anally raped by a bunch of free market extremists, devoid of any moral conviction

But its easier to scream, "Down with Socialism" than, "down with being anally raped by a bunch of free market extremists, devoid of any moral conviction"

**Detroitej72** · April-01-09, 10:11 PM

Europeans love Socialism, therefore, me thinks the are protesting CAPITALISM!!!

All kidding aside, these are IMO, a bunch of kids with too much time on their hands.

**oladub** · April-01-09, 10:24 PM

Watching CNN, my wife pointed out that the news likes to take pictures of the protesters and mention how many were arrested but the news doesn't interview them to find out what their views are.

**oladub** · April-02-09, 03:55 PM

The sign does get a message out but:

A.) They live in England so how would they know?

B.) Did the Labor Government print the nice sign?

**Johnlodge** · April-02-09, 04:01 PM

That picture makes it seem that nobody over the age of 30 is interested in this protest.

**Johnlodge** · April-02-09, 04:10 PM

**Flanders** · April-02-09, 04:37 PM

The media will commonly portray protesters as being prone to violence and destruction of property, when in reality, it is often the result of agents provocateurs and anarchists attempts to create friction between the police and the protesters, causing relatively peaceful protesting to turn into rioting.

**oladub** · April-02-09, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by Speramus Meliora

If you think that Great Britain is socialist, then you don't understand what the word means.

Or maybe the protesters don't know what capitalism is. Perhaps they are confusing it with corporatism which is an ugly hybrid of corporate and governmental interests - for example, when governments bail out banks and stick the populace with the ownership of the bad loans.

Since I never mentioned 'socialism', perhaps you could instruct us about what it means. Don't forget to include the unicorns and rainbows.

**oladub** · April-02-09, 06:31 PM

In this instance with the banks, it is corporatist. Some references are also using the word 'feudal'. Capitalism would allow banks that wasted their money on bad investments or huge executive bonuses to die. Smaller, more disciplined banks would pick up the pieces. Under corporatism, or economic fascism, the government bails out the banks, executives continue to live comfortably and contribute to friendly politicians, and the bad loans are charged to taxpayers. I am not knowledgable about the specifics of the British banking system. However, in the case of our own banking system, if there are similarities, Woodrow Wilson created the Federal Reserve, composed of a collection of private banks not completely US owned. The Federal Reserve was entrusted with controlling our monetary policy. It has since been allowed to create at least three bubbles resulting in major economic downturns in 1921, 1929, and 2007. The government, at least in '29 and '08 dug the hole deeper by trying to bail us out using the same tools that dug the hole e.g. paying farmers to burn crops or pumping more money into the already overbuilt housing market to prop up the bubble.

If our government wanted to challenge the bankers instead of buoying them, it could eliminate the Federal Reserve. If it is less bold and wanted to at least have a measure of transparency, it could take the baby step of passing HR 1207 - now with 55 sponsors, to find out what the Fed is up to.

We are going through a market correction in response to the meddling policies of the Federal Reserve and federal government. We have to go through that correction. That is why it is called a correction. The question is if the Fed and government will allow a correction or keep trying to inflate the collapsing bubble.

[[economic) Fascism is "socialism with shareholders". Communism is the official abolition of private property. That's not hair-splitting.
Under [[economic) Fascism, private property remains in force for those with government patronage. Its only abolished for everyone else! -Brit4RonPaul

ccbatson · April-02-09, 08:13 PM

European governments seem to love socialism and are unraveling as a result. The protestors however, are not government representatives, but the citizens on the front lines losing and suffering to the socialistic trends over there.

When did socialism become a stigma? Always...most acutely after witnessing what happened in the USSR.

**Ray1936** · April-02-09, 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by Johnlodge

That picture makes it seem that nobody over the age of 30 is interested in this protest.

That's close, but I can guarantee you that nobody over the age of 70 gives a care at all. Further, I think the young man breaking the windows on the Bank of Scotland building should have been shot on the spot. Or at least had the shit kicked out of him.

**oladub** · April-03-09, 12:08 AM

You aren't following. Corporatists include both the bankers and their government pals. You are trying to break it down into bankers bad, government good or at least Democrats good. And yes, as Catherine Austin Fitts has described it, one of the functions of Fannie/Freddie, for instance, is to package loans up in order to finance 'black' government operations by selling the same loan multiple times. If we don't deal with corruption, we are just spitting into the wind. The Republicans made a mess and Obama is making the mess bigger. If you are not a fan of bailouts, then don't support them.

**oldredfordette** · April-03-09, 08:10 AM

The protests were attended by all kinds of people, the news media very obediently focused on the work of the small groups of violent protesters, while ignoring the obvious provocation of the police, and ignoring the real issues at hand. Which are: these banks had a good time with our money, and now we're expected to pay for their bailout. Really and truly, doesn't it make you want to grab a rock?

**Johnlodge** · April-03-09, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by oldredfordette

The protests were attended by all kinds of people, the news media very obediently focused on the work of the small groups of violent protesters, while ignoring the obvious provocation of the police, and ignoring the real issues at hand. Which are: these banks had a good time with our money, and now we're expected to pay for their bailout. Really and truly, doesn't it make you want to grab a rock?

Not really, because not being an extremist, I stop and think about the repercussions of such an action on myself and my own community, and the reality that such an action doesn't generally achieve the desired results.

**Pam** · April-03-09, 08:51 AM

This picture is interesting. Window smashing guy surrounded by a mob of reporters. Makes you wonder if it was staged.

**oladub** · April-03-09, 09:59 AM

I agree with your second paragraph but it is too simple to say this is just a problem of deregulation created by both Republicans and Democrats - or in your case, just Republicans.. These problems go back decades. If you are concerned about deregulation, you might consider have you Representative co-sign HR 1207 for starters.

the Accounting and Auditing Act of 1950. The relevant section, 31 USC 714[[b), dictated that congressional audits of the Federal Reserve may not include "deliberations, decisions and actions on monetary policy matters." The exemption, as Foss notes, "basically includes everything." According to the law, in other words, the Fed simply cannot be audited by Congress. Or by anyone else, for that matter. http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...big_takeover/7

HR1207 would allow Congress to at least peek inside of the private banks that compose the Fed.

There were also laws written in 1947 and 1949 that allow the federal government to fund secret operations by allowing agencies to divert money. I call this corruption, perhaps you don't. Between $4-10T has disappeared from the federal budget. To me, that's a problem. I realize we weren't taught this in civics class and posts from 'mybarachobama.com' don't mention these things.

If you don't like the example of linking Fannie http://solari.com/archive/freddie-fannie-penny-stocks/ to corruption, then try HUD. http://www.dunwalke.com/sidebars/andrew_cuomo.htm I could go on. The lady that writes this was inside the Bush 1 administration and contracted housing services to the Clinton administration.

That still doesn't answer my question about what economic system you think that Great Britain has and why you think that the British are not qualified to comment on capitalism -Speramus Meliora

A question asked after I asked that you define socialism being sure to include references to unicorns and rainbows - still unanswered except to dismiss Stalin as a bad socialist. Not being one to duck a question though, I will try. Answer: Britian has a hybrid economic system that includes vestiges of its former robber barron style capitalism with increasingly corporatist policies uniting the heads of industry, government and labor. Globs of socialist policy are tossed to the masses, by the increasinly corporatist power structure, to keep them harmless and at bay.

**oldredfordette** · April-03-09, 06:28 PM

Pam, I've long thought the masked "anarchists" were agent provocateurs, they turn the debate from the issues and give the cops reason to wade in with batons.

I've spoken to a couple of British friends who were at the demos, they confirmed my suspicions. A person needs to read between the lines and the paragraphs to get the real story.