Stephen Henderson: Why isn't there more outrage when innocent kids die in Detroit?

**rjk** · March-25-12, 06:58 AM

http://www.freep.com/article/2012032...ie-in-Detroit-

**iheartthed** · March-25-12, 08:30 AM

Does it really need to be spelled out? Was this a flawed attempt to be provocative?

What have we done for Delric? Or Kade'jah? Or Je'Rean?

Uh, well, arresting their suspected murderers was a start.

**stinkytofu** · March-25-12, 08:54 AM

Obviously race is an issue with Trayvon, but what is also a huge issue in this case is a law - "Stand Your Ground" - that all but lets you murder someone. That hasn't been an issue in a Detroit murder from what I've heard, yet has become a national outrage due to how absurd it is. That is one of the big reasons that the story has blown up.

**Mark Smiles** · March-25-12, 09:09 AM

Why is a memorial to Malice Green maintained?

What does the Joe Louis fist really represent?

**firstandten** · March-25-12, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by stinkytofu

Obviously race is an issue with Trayvon, but what is also a huge issue in this case is a law - "Stand Your Ground" - that all but lets you murder someone. That hasn't been an issue in a Detroit murder from what I've heard, yet has become a national outrage due to how absurd it is. That is one of the big reasons that the story has blown up.

Once you realize how deep the NRA is in making sure that some form of this law gets passed in all 50 states [[Michigan is already one that has a form of the law) it should concern you.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/201...law/?mobile=nc

Back to Stephen point I understand it, but two of his three examples don't really apply. In two of those cases kids were the unintended consequence of adults unable to deal with there anger issues without the use of a gun. In Trayvon's case you are looking at one of the most polarizing issues among blacks and other minorities today... profiling.

If it an been an adult that got shot you would see the same outcry because the root issue is profiling.

**Zacha341** · March-25-12, 11:40 AM

Regarding gun ownership, agendas and perspectives vary. But the NRA absolutely does not OWN the ideology, appreciation of or reasoning for legal gun ownership [[they wish)... and expedient to the agenda of some were it true.

I know liberals and indies who are gun owners and do not embrace the NRA, nor are they members. Do all Detroiter's have the NRA politic and world view top-of-mind when they take their CPL classes here within the city?

**corktownyuppie** · March-25-12, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by firstandten

Back to Stephen point I understand it, but two of his three examples don't really apply. In two of those cases kids were the unintended consequence of adults unable to deal with there anger issues without the use of a gun. In Trayvon's case you are looking at one of the most polarizing issues among blacks and other minorities today... profiling.

Well I think that's exactly Stephen's point. We need to ask ourselves a really crucial question in all of this...

For every racial profiling incident that ends in someone dying, there are countless incidents where social dysfunction and poor anger management and conflict resolution skills result in someone's death. So where does it make sense to focus our energy and what will it take for us to do so?

Racial profiling is infuriating. It's emotionally hurtful. It triggers shame. It's unjust. I've been on the wrong end of it in ways that are cruel and unforgettable. And when a person [[or community) is hurt in that way from an outsider, it's sooooo easy to "motivate the troops" and rile people up. When the enemy is from another tribe, another city, another political affiliation, another team....it becomes very simple, almost too simple. It triggers all of the instincts to "defend your house" and "draw a line in the sand".

But when the enemy isn't on the other team. Or on your own team. Or not on any team. Or unknowable. Then it takes a new level of consciousness, maturity, perception, and awareness. It's not as simple as holding a 3-day march. It's not something you can put on a bumper sticker or on a sign. There are no team colors to root against.

And this is the problem, and whether or not Henderson is making this point, it's the one I'm making. What happened with Trayvon Martin was inexcusable and infuriating.

So why isn't it just as infuriating when a 16-year old gets shot in a drive-by shooting? Hm? It's a fair question to ask. And it's one that might point to some ideas and some questions that are difficult to hear...and even harder to answer.

**De'troiter** · March-25-12, 12:17 PM

I think there is outrage on black on black crime. A lot of crime that happens in the black community occurs out of retaliation, or as a remedy to another crime. When a killer is known, they are usually reported to the authorities, and the authorities are more than happy to throw them under the jail when they are black. If the killer is unknown, of course you can protest murder in general, but its different than having a concrete suspect. The Trayvon Martin case is upsetting because the police simply dismissed the known assailant. When that happens in the Black Community, justice is usually served to the guilty party on the street [[i don't condone that). You must understand Black people would not be protesting if the murdurer had gone thru the judicial process, but that did not occur, that is the outrage! Yes there is a murder epidemic in Detroit, but how many of those murderers are known to the police as the assailants, but dismissed without question?

**rjk** · March-25-12, 12:30 PM

Not only the violence, but where are the protests/marches concerning a city government that has been inept and at times crooked?

There's a protest march tomorrow downtown for TM. I'm interested to see how many people will show up. Based on some of the other protest around country my hunch is that it will be a rather large event. If it's not well attended at least Detroiters will be consistant in their apathy.

**iheartthed** · March-25-12, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

So why isn't it just as infuriating when a 16-year old gets shot in a drive-by shooting? Hm? It's a fair question to ask. And it's one that might point to some ideas and some questions that are difficult to hear...and even harder to answer.

Who said it isn't infuriating? Part of the uproar is that the murders of black citizens aren't given equal stature as crimes against people of the majority race, whether they are committed by gang bangers in the ghetto, cops using overly aggressive policing tactics, or wanna-be vigilantes killing innocent black kids.

But I think you and Mr. Henderson are glossing over a key distinction between why the Trayvon Martin incident has riled up the masses versus the typical American inner-city act of violence. The core issue at the Trayvon Martin incident is that people of color in America don't view their experience as Americans as equally legitimate to that of white Americans. I think many people of color who are outraged by this feel that they have a lot of rights -- and certainly more than they would get living in a non-democratic society -- but they also feel that there is a major hypocracy in what citizenship in western democratic societies promises and what it actually delivers.

It's like "yeah, you're 'American' but you're not American." American democratic principles promise that we all will be judged by the individual and have our interests protected as such, yet here we have a black kid who is dead and so far his only crime was having a skin color similar to a few of the criminals displayed on the nightly newscast. If that weren't offensive enough you have a police department that was all but ready to cast the incident aside without even properly investigating the incident. An incident like this more so than any other affects a broad cross section of minority America. If you're a middle class black American you aren't as likely to be touched by inner city violence as you are by a "being black" experience.

**stinkytofu** · March-25-12, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by rjk

Not only the violence, but where are the protests/marches concerning a city government that has been inept and at times crooked?

There's a protest march tomorrow downtown for TM. I'm interested to see how many people will show up. Based on some of the other protest around country my hunch is that it will be a rather large event. If it's not well attended at least Detroiters will be consistant in their apathy.

Do you know what time? Where?

**rjk** · March-25-12, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by stinkytofu

Do you know what time? Where?

http://detroitnaacp.org/

**detroitsgwenivere** · March-25-12, 04:41 PM

I could've sworn i turned on the evening news several times in the last 3 months and saw the black community marching against violence. Was I mistaken?

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · March-25-12, 08:05 PM

Trayvon's death seems to be a straight-out murder, not an application of a "Stand Your Ground" law-endowed right. The murder should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, which in FL, I think, means capital murder. The SYG laws are designed to enhance personal right-of-defense protection for people who are in a genuinely threatening situation. Nothing in this case seems to suggest that this was applicable. I do believe in one's right to defend themselves, loved ones, and property, but I am a little wary of SYG laws, for lack of an ability to create a universal wording that will protect someone acting in genuine self-defense and not someone just choosing to kill someone. The biggest problem in this case [[beyond the senseless murder) is the unbelievable lack of action by police/prosecution in that community. That is a problem of personnel, not legislation. It would seem from media reports that this was a nice kid doing nothing wrong, a paranoid biggot [[he's called 911 about 50 other black people in the last 6 months!) deciding to take him out, and local law enforcement not treating a fatal shooting as a crime. I would be embarrassed to live in that community.

I do think we have another problem, too. We get desensitized to crime. Detroit has hundreds of murders a year. They disproportionately affect young black men. But because that's the norm we aren't outraged about it. There has to be a twist for it to cause outrage. A baby killed in a drive by. A grandmother shot. A nice young black kid killed by an Hispanic vigilante wannabe. Something that makes the murder unique. If Trayvon had been killed by a dealer in a drive by, there is no chance that it would be national news. But he'd be equally dead. The scourge of murder- all murders- is outrageous. I fully support every protest of every murder. I just hope the outrage and the protest is not limited to the more "newsworthy" ones. Will the protesters march down the streets of our most crime-ridden neighborhoods? Will they drop a dime on the dealer down the block? If so, I applaud. If not, it's all just for show.

In 1980, when I was a kid, my mom's co-worker had her daughter, a 19-year old college kid, killed while she was working at McDonald's right here in Detroit. Both victim and suspect [[never caught and convicted) were both black Detroit teenagers. No massive protests. Just a life lost and family devasted. Her death was as senseless and awful as Trayvon's. That was my first funeral, at age 6.

R.I.P. Trayvon. And all other murder victims, black and white, young and old. When you're killed, you're killed.

**Motor City Sam** · March-25-12, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by detroitsgwenivere

I could've sworn i turned on the evening news several times in the last 3 months and saw the black community marching against violence. Was I mistaken?

No, you are not mistaken and you bring up a very good point. There have been several marches and vigils against crime in Detroit. Detroit 300 is patrolling the streets and tracking down leads. Several funeral homes participated in a a "parade" of hearses to bring attention to the issue. Friends and family members of murder victims hold press conferences and offer rewards to help in the arrest of criminals. Many neighborhoods in Detroit operate their own neighborhood patrols and watches.

The idea that Blacks are less outraged by Black on Black crime is ridiculous.

**Motor City Sam** · March-25-12, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Does it really need to be spelled out? Was this a flawed attempt to be provocative?

Uh, well, arresting their suspected murderers was a start.

Exactly. There would be less of an uproar in the Martin case if his killer had actually been arrested after chasing him down and shooting him.

**firstandten** · March-25-12, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by Motor City Sam

The idea that Blacks are less outraged by Black on Black crime is ridiculous.

Too often what is mistaken for lack of outrage is collective frustration over a problem that is so multi-layered that answers are hard to come by.

**Meddle** · March-25-12, 11:29 PM

Trayvon's death seems to be a straight-out murder,

There is no indication of that at all.

had actually been arrested after chasing him down and shooting him.

Nobody chased anybody down, and we're not sure at what point the shooting occurred. We know there was an altercation and at least one witness says Martin started it.

**Meddle** · March-25-12, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by rjk

Not only the violence, but where are the protests/marches concerning a city government that has been inept and at times crooked?

There's a protest march tomorrow downtown for TM.

Why? He's not from Detroit.

Now if you're going to protest Detroit's corrupt government, you might have something.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · March-26-12, 12:22 AM

Originally Posted by Meddle

Trayvon's death seems to be a straight-out murder,

There is no indication of that at all.

had actually been arrested after chasing him down and shooting him.

Nobody chased anybody down, and we're not sure at what point the shooting occurred. We know there was an altercation and at least one witness says Martin started it.

So does that give him the right to shoot a 15 yr old kid over a altercation? Zimmerman should have been arrested on the spot, until the shooting was throughly investigated. The Police Chief quit for a reason, it doesn't pass the smell test to me.

**upinnair** · March-26-12, 02:18 AM

Originally Posted by De'troiter

I think there is outrage on black on black crime. A lot of crime that happens in the black community occurs out of retaliation, or as a remedy to another crime. When a killer is known, they are usually reported to the authorities, and the authorities are more than happy to throw them under the jail when they are black. If the killer is unknown, of course you can protest murder in general, but its different than having a concrete suspect. The Trayvon Martin case is upsetting because the police simply dismissed the known assailant. When that happens in the Black Community, justice is usually served to the guilty party on the street [[i don't condone that). You must understand Black people would not be protesting if the murdurer had gone thru the judicial process, but that did not occur, that is the outrage! Yes there is a murder epidemic in Detroit, but how many of those murderers are known to the police as the assailants, but dismissed without question?

The murder was a crime, the police letting go of the suspect was unjust.

**p69rrh51** · March-26-12, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by Meddle

Trayvon's death seems to be a straight-out murder,

There is no indication of that at all.

had actually been arrested after chasing him down and shooting him.

Nobody chased anybody down, and we're not sure at what point the shooting occurred. We know there was an altercation and at least one witness says Martin started it.

As usual everyone is flying off the handle without knowing the whole story. Its just another "cause" for someone to push their agenda. Now to put a different twist when my father was murdered here in the city [[white person shot by several black youths) the reaction from the black community was essentially to f***ing bad he was in the wrong place at the wrong time and it was his fault for being there. Even the Judge [[a black male) was going to let them off with a slap on the wrist even though they plead guilty. Fortunately the Wayne Co. prosecutors were able to appeal the decision which the criminals ended up fighting almost to the Supreme Court. So it cuts both ways! Also Mr. Henderson mentions that Mr. Zimmerman is white he should get his own facts straight Zimmerman is Hispanic. Sound like an agenda to me.

**Hermod** · March-26-12, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by p69rrh51

As usual everyone is flying off the handle without knowing the whole story. Its just another "cause" for someone to push their agenda. Now to put a different twist when my father was murdered here in the city [[white person shot by several black youths) the reaction from the black community was essentially to f***ing bad he was in the wrong place at the wrong time and it was his fault for being there. Even the Judge [[a black male) was going to let them off with a slap on the wrist even though they plead guilty. Fortunately the Wayne Co. prosecutors were able to appeal the decision which the criminals ended up fighting almost to the Supreme Court. So it cuts both ways! Also Mr. Henderson mentions that Mr. Zimmerman is white he should get his own facts straight Zimmerman is Hispanic. Sound like an agenda to me.

Well, Zimmerman's father is Euro-Anglo while his mother is Peruvian. Zimmerman speaks fluent Spanish. I am not sure whether or not Zimmerman self-identifies with the Hispano-American culture of Peru or with US-Anglo culture.

There seems to be some physical and eye-witness evidence that Zimmerman was on his back on the ground with a broken nose after being assaulted by Martin before he pulled the gun and fired the fatal shot.

Possibly there needs to be a balanced weighing of the evidence pro and con though that doesn't sell newpapers.

**Meddle** · March-26-12, 08:10 AM

though that doesn't sell newpapers.

Bingo.

**Motor City Sam** · March-26-12, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by Meddle

Trayvon's death seems to be a straight-out murder,

There is no indication of that at all.

had actually been arrested after chasing him down and shooting him.

Nobody chased anybody down, and we're not sure at what point the shooting occurred. We know there was an altercation and at least one witness says Martin started it.

Meddle, Zimmerman admits on the 911 call that he left his vehicle and followed Martin after Martin had left the immediate area. I don't think there is any debate that it was Zimmerman who shot him. What did I write that was incorrect? Is your issue with the use of my term "chased him down"?

You seem to be quite certain that "nobody chased anybody down". Why are you so sure? Neither you nor I were there, and the information we have, such as the 911 call, indicates that it was Zimmerman who went after Martin, not the other way around. You are doing the same thing that people have accused the Martin supporters of doing; making up your mind without all the facts.

Is there any debate that if Zimmerman had not left his vehicle and followed Martin that none of this would have happened? Martin would have gone back to the house enjoying his snacks and the basketball game, and Zimmerman would probably still be driving around the neighborhood with his gun, calling 911.