It's the first food truck vs. restaurant rivalry in downtown Detroit

**begingri** · March-19-12, 10:24 PM

By Ashley C. Woods | awoods@mlive.com

Last year, the city of Detroit stamped its first permits allowing mobile food vendors to legally sell their eats in parking lots and streets.

Naturally, a food truck owner who parked his mobile diner near an old Detroit establishment has received some brushback from restaurant's embattled owners.

Joe Sciammana is the formerly-unemployed construction worker behind "Dago Joe's," which serves up Italian-American dishes like spinach ravioli in a choice of two homemade sauces and meatball subs loaded up on slices of ciabatta.

Continued at:

http://www.mlive.com/entertainment/d...st_food_t.html

**adamjab19** · March-20-12, 01:50 AM

In another article about this on myfoxdetroit.com it sounds like Checker Bar was/is just barely hanging on before the food truck rolled up. It sounds like they were only in business, barely, because there was not much else business around to compete with Checker really. You feel bad for any business that is having a hard time, but judging by the hardtimes attitude that the owners of checker's are having it doesn't seem like Dago Joe's is stealing many customers from them anyway. Dago Joe's offered a unique food offering bringing customers to the area. Checker Bar apparently has not done that very good lately. Time to change business models or offer up some specails which they mention in this article

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news...up-20120319-ms

Are food trucks going to be the "walmart effect" of the local bars downtown?

Occurrence · March-20-12, 02:21 AM

Shouldn't this be a good thing? If this food truck is taking away Checker's business, then Checkers probably sucked, and now they should be inspired to improve their quality and take business away from the food truck. Competition usually raises the standards.

**downtown_racine** · March-20-12, 03:01 AM

Sounds like the good ole race to the bottom to me. Packard sucked too thats why they are where they are today.
I guess Detroit sucked too, the burbs just raised the bar and gave folks more choices. Let the people choose and forgetaboutit. Lulz.

**Scottathew** · March-20-12, 08:35 AM

I see both sides.

The food truck has positioned itself near the restaurant to poach it's business. Imagine if the food truck ends up putting the restaurant out of business, and then decides there's a more lucrative spot and move on its way, leaving only a closed business in its dust.

But I see the food truck perspective too. Thousands of workers have moved downtown and we've seen lots of new opportunities for places that are opening up. In one spot I've seen Slices, Texas de Brazil, and Olga's opening up.

**mikefmich** · March-20-12, 09:15 AM

Can't stand the heat, stay outta the kitchen. Free enterprise....either rise to the top or sink to the bottom.

What's the problem?

**poobert** · March-20-12, 09:54 AM

I'm definitely of the camp that free enterprise doesn't mean everything should be a complete deregulated shitshow. However what are these peoples' problems?

Here's how I look at it: I have lived in the city for years and was in Checker Bar once - and walked right out. I wanted a cold beer and to watch the game, and the game wasn't on. Other than that it absolutely never occured to me to go into Checker Bar, ever, and I have been to everywhere from Chick's to High Noon Saloon to Tom's Tavern.

What are they doing wrong? Well, they think its still 1975, apparently. If anything downtown has much fewer good, fun bar choices than Midtown given the recent influx of investment. Where do young people like myself who live in the city like to go, as an example? Well, downtown that would be Foran's or Park Bar - catching my drift, Checker's? Maybe you could learn something from their business models, and you don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I don't even eat red meat to begin with - can I even get anything on their menu? Hell if I know, they don't have a website.

They seem to claim to have the best burgers in town - yeah, them and everyone else that serves burgers. Which I don't eat.

Detroit used to have a bar like Checker's on every corner. The ones that survived had to adapt in some way. I don't know why they think they're special.

Just look at their reviews online...they're extremely mixed.

**Wesley Mouch** · March-20-12, 10:13 AM

Checker should count their blessings that someone is drawing people to their door. The best things for a restaurant is more restaurants. Look at Mexicantown.

**Meddle** · March-20-12, 10:43 AM

I don't know exactly where they're parked, but they shouldn't be within a block or two. You have to show some ethics.

I won't go to O'Reilly's Auto Parts because they opened almost every store within sight of either Advance Auto or AutoZone.

**Enduro** · March-20-12, 10:51 AM

I had a pretty great burger at Checker's a couple years ago. It's not really in my regular stomping ground so I haven't been back and I either pack a lunch or have to order delivery for lunch time. I did like that it was kind of a throwback but they should think of how to evolve to grab these new young professionals downtown. Red meat's popularity is on the decline as people get more health conscience.

And the food trucks are throwbacks too. The milkman, the knife sharpening guy, the fruit guy, the ice cream man, the butcher. I only remember the ice cream man but apparently these all existed not too long ago. With CM, CP and GCP all getting facelifts it'd be nice to grab something from a truck and have lunch in the park. There's room for all these to exist together but you shouldn't cripple one to hope to force a market for the other.

**downtownguy** · March-20-12, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by mikefmich

Can't stand the heat, stay outta the kitchen.

^^ Funny.

Old bars with a long tradition are great. I still lament the passing of the Lindell AC and others. But I also agree with other posters that the Checker hasn't done well in grabbing the nostalgic audience. My last trip there was a few years ago. Prior to that, I hadn't been there for quite some time. I was on a date for the first time with a lady that worked for one of the downtown law firms, but had never gone to the Checker. We both agreed we wanted someplace informal and simple. The place was empty, but we didn't mind. In fact, I had hoped to have time to get to know my date without many distractions. The sisters ganged up on us. First the presumption that we were "tourists" from the suburbs. Then, when they discovered that it was our first meeting, they had to blare it to the few regulars at the bar. So much for a low-key first date.

The restaurant biz is survival of the fittest. I would guess that the increase of people coming out of the offices to lunch at the food truck will give more visibility to the Checker, and that they should take advantage of it to get people in on their next trip. The Checker has more going for it than they realize, if they only capitalize on their strengths and uniqueness... and leave first-time daters alone.

**gnome** · March-20-12, 12:13 PM

I think the issue is not whether the girls at Checker are fighting a new restaurant, it is because the Dago Joes isn't paying property taxes to rent the parking space. Hence the Checker is behind the 8-ball price wise because they have to factor in a ton of city taxes that aren't paid by the Dago Joe's guy from Clinton Township.

However, I don't think the Checker folks have not effectively articulated their case; the result is that they have come off looking a tad provincial.

**downtownguy** · March-20-12, 12:20 PM

Cities all over the country, nay, the world! have food trucks. The argument that they don't pay property taxes is a hollow one. I rent and I don't pay property taxes, but my landlord does. You can nitpick the economics of it, but food trucks have been proven to increase foot traffic where they exist. And the more people that feel comfortable on the street, the more likely they are to seek out more venues. Hmmmm, haven't I heard people on this forum wishing we had more foot traffic downtown?

**Hypestyles** · March-20-12, 12:35 PM

anybody tried the food from Dago Joes?

**antongast** · March-20-12, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by gnome

I think the issue is not whether the girls at Checker are fighting a new restaurant, it is because the Dago Joes isn't paying property taxes to rent the parking space. Hence the Checker is behind the 8-ball price wise because they have to factor in a ton of city taxes that aren't paid by the Dago Joe's guy from Clinton Township.

But they also have the advantage of having a building with walls and a roof [[so they can stay open year-round in all weather), a liquor license, and presumably a more sophisticated kitchen. Nobody is stopping them from starting their own food truck if they think food trucks are inherently a better business model.

**EastsideAl** · March-20-12, 01:33 PM

For those who don't know or remember, the Checker is a classic old Detroit beer & burger bar that has been around for about 60 years. It moved over to Cadillac Sq. from its longtime perch on Bates when the Monroe block was torn down in a hurry by the city [[to be replaced for the last 25 years by a scenic parking lot, of course). It's still owned and operated by members of the same Munro family who started it all those years ago.

It was a big lunchtime favorite with government workers back when I worked at the City-County Building in the '80s. and was popular with the lawyers, etc. who worked in the First National Building and Cadillac Towers or did business at the old Wayne County Courthouse. But the closing of the Old County Building, falling office occupancy rates downtown, and changing rules and attitudes about having a beer or two over lunch [[once completely common, now actually banned for most government workers and at most law firms, for instance), have really hurt Checker's business.

The lack of business and money has caused them to not redecorate or even do much to brighten the place up for many years. And the family's service, which was always gruff, in an old fashioned urban sort of way, has too often morphed in my experience into a sort of bitter stand-offishness over the years. Oh, and the burgers don't seem as good as they used to either. Thus you have the recipe for a failing business.

I believe they have been surviving in large part in recent years off of lunchtime carry-outs by government workers from the City-County Building [[aka CAY Municipal Center), which is by far the largest concentration of office workers left in downtown Detroit outside of the hermetically sealed Ren Cen.

Then along comes a new shiny truck that parks outside your door, and nips off some of your waning customer base, while doing business with much lower overhead costs than yours. This is an age-old complaint of brick-and-mortar businesses when it comes to carts and trucks, and a battle that has gone on forever in many cities. The trucks don't pay rent, utilities, or property taxes, which angers the nearby business owners who pay for these things and have to price their wares accordingly. Of course, for their part, the trucks have nowhere to sit down, no alcohol, and are much less pleasant to use during the colder months. Still, for a business owner in a market with a very limited customer base, its pretty easy to see how the whole situation could seem infuriatingly unfair.

I understand why there is little sympathy for the Checker Bar's position here, particularly given the way their business has been run over the past several years. But, even so, it would be a shame to lose a business that has hung on downtown for so many decades, when most others have packed up and gone. I would expect at least some understanding of their position here. It would be even nicer, of course, if we had a city that could keep both the long-time old bar business and the charmingly urban food truck going strong. I would think, in the end, that's really the goal that most of us have in mind.

**EastsideAl** · March-20-12, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by antongast

presumably a more sophisticated kitchen.

You haven't been to the Checker Bar, have you? It's an old-style Detroit bar & grill without much more "kitchen" than a grill and deep fryer behind the bar. Really among the last of a once commonplace species.

**RO_Resident** · March-20-12, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by Hypestyles

anybody tried the food from Dago Joes?

Joe is a relative of mine. I have been to his truck a couple of times--once in Plymouth, another time when he started up down town a couple of weeks ago.

One of his base marinara sauces has a bit of a kick, the other has olives.

He also has lots of vegetarian options.

Like a lot of small businesses, it really is a family business--the wife and kids all pitch in to make everything work.

**Meddle** · March-20-12, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by RO_Resident

Joe is a relative of mine.

Well, tell him to park someplace else.

Or invite him to sign up here and we'll tell him.

**Wheels** · March-20-12, 02:45 PM

If it is the same truck that was in Plymouth for the car show late last fall I had a meatball sub from him. Didn't pay much attention to the name on the truck at the time but I was surprised to see such a sandwich on a roach coach vendor. My wife snubbed her nose but I asked to see his bread and it looked like nice Chibata [[my favorite) so I gave it a shot. It was a bit pricey but I have to say it was well worth it. All premo ingredients and very fresh. A bit messy though, not exactly the best thing to eat while walking.

**1953** · March-20-12, 03:42 PM

Checkers needs to learn how to be competitive; 'nough said.

1953

**Flintoid** · March-20-12, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by 1953

Checkers needs to learn how to be competitive; 'nough said.

1953

Simple but very true. Welcome to a competitive market. I can say that I've never been to Checkers and don't really plan to go now. If they can't deal with a little competition then their business model needs to be adjusted. The logical businessman would have a promotion or change things up to compete, not whine on local news. Get over yourself Checkers.

**JBMcB** · March-20-12, 04:00 PM

Detroit needs *more* businesses. More places to eat, more bars, more stores, more everything. If that means food trucks, so be it. If that means roadside stands, so be it.

If it were up to the existing restaurants and bars, I'm sure there wouldn't be a single new restaurant or liquor license issued to anyone. It's not the city's job to protect existing businesses from new business, it's to PROMOTE NEW BUSINESS.

Occurrence · March-20-12, 04:18 PM

I think the food truck should set up shop next to the Hardrock Cafe or Hockeytown Cafe. It shouldn't be hard to compete with
the over-priced garbage they serve at the those places.

SteveJ · March-20-12, 04:37 PM

I went into Checkers for lunch a couple weeks back and that place has to be on its last breath. It still looks the same from the 80's and there was a total of 4 people at noon on a weekday. I can't imagine that its going to stay in business much longer with or without the food truck. I do agree about the food truck in that its unfair for the brick and mortar to pay taxes etc... and you have this guy in a food truck stop during prime hours and then bail.