Trayvon Martin: Amazed no one has posted this....

**Jimaz** · March-21-12, 10:00 PM

Papantonio: Zimmerman Charge Should Be Premeditated Murder

**Jimaz** · March-21-12, 10:18 PM

Hartmann's The Nature of community

**ejames01** · March-22-12, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by Jimaz

Papantonio: Zimmerman Charge Should Be Premeditated Murder

It will most likely be manslaughter. There is no evidence to suggest that a Murder charge is appropriate.

**rb336** · March-22-12, 11:27 AM

I think Papantonio laid out a fair case for premeditation. It clearly raises above manslaughter, which is:
"The unjustifiable, inexcusable, and intentional killing of a human being without deliberation, premeditation, and malice. The unlawful killing of a human being without any deliberation, which may be involuntary, in the commission of a lawful act without due caution and circumspection." [[http://legal-dictionary.thefreedicti...y+manslaughter)
there is clearly deliberation and clearly malice in the man's actions

**Jimaz** · March-22-12, 09:07 PM

**BasementBeat** · March-23-12, 12:07 AM

Comparing a kid who was murdered to the Duke case is a bit much. Things are back to "normal" in the Duke case. A life is gone forever in Trayvon Martin.

**Jimaz** · March-23-12, 03:54 PM

Papantonio: Did Police Blow Chance of Conviction With Zimmerman? - Bad Forensics

**Detroit Stylin** · March-23-12, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by ejames01

It will most likely be manslaughter. There is no evidence to suggest that a Murder charge is appropriate.

So in essence you are saying that someone that is unbiased who had listened to the 911 tapes and hearing Trayvon screaming for help and and THEN the gunshot and silence along with the witnesses who stated that as well will come to that conclusion? You must nothave heard all 8 of the 911 recordings that recorded the murder when the neighbors who called in were telling police there was someone behind their houses screaming for help...

**rb336** · March-23-12, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by BasementBeat

Comparing a kid who was murdered to the Duke case is a bit much. Things are back to "normal" in the Duke case. A life is gone forever in Trayvon Martin.

well, repubs have a tendency toward minimalizing or maximizing comparisons - Like Newt comparing DeNiro's joke about "America not being ready for a white first lady" to Limbaugh's comments about Fluke

**Detroit Stylin** · March-24-12, 07:16 AM

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...artin-shooting

**Roq** · March-24-12, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Detroit Stylin

So in essence you are saying that someone that is unbiased who had listened to the 911 tapes and hearing Trayvon screaming for help and and THEN the gunshot and silence along with the witnesses who stated that as well will come to that conclusion? You must nothave heard all 8 of the 911 recordings that recorded the murder when the neighbors who called in were telling police there was someone behind their houses screaming for help...

Those tapes are chilling and they wrench your heart hearing them.

As far as I'm concerned, Zimmerman should be up on first degree murder charges since he was told to sit the fuck down and didn't. I really hope the Justice Dept. goes after him and that useless police dept.

**Meddle** · March-24-12, 07:32 PM

There is a lot more to this than the media has been reporting.

A witness has come forward to say it was Zimmerman screaming for help, not Martin.

**Detwa** · March-24-12, 07:50 PM

The 911 tapes show Trayvon calling for help. I think the actual recording of Trayvon's voice is going to weigh more heavily than this "witness". Besides, it doesn't even make sense for Zimmerman to be calling for help when he pursued and confronted the boy after being told not to by police, police were already on the way, he was a good 100 pounds heavier than the boy, and he had a gun. Why would he need help? That's not even logical. It seems people are working overtime to help bolster his self-defense claim. But now they're reporting that Trayvon may have dialed 911 too, and if true, that means he was in fear for his life.

**gazhekwe** · March-24-12, 07:51 PM

Well, we have the recordings, so I am sure it will be settled who was yelling. It is very hard for me to believe the teen, who was reportedly trying to get away from Zimmerman, and who was a lot smaller, attacked the man. He ran between the houses and it was behind the houses that the incident occurred. So, if Zimmerman had given up the chase and was returning to his car, what was he doing behind the houses? If Trayvon was trying to get away from Zimmerman, why would he attack him once he quit the pursuit?

**Meddle** · March-24-12, 07:57 PM

^^ Unfortunately, only two people know the answers to those questions and one of them can't tell us anything.

**Meddle** · March-24-12, 08:21 PM

March 24, 2012

A friend of George Zimmerman, the man who shot unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Fla., told ABC News today that the voice heard howling on the tape of a 911 call was Zimmerman's, not the teen's.

< Snip >

Zimmerman's friend said that the howls heard on the 911 call, which helped galvanize the nation against Zimmerman, in fact belonged to Zimmerman, not Martin.

A witness who saw Martin on top of Zimmerman told ABC News the same: the pleas for help were Zimmerman's.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/abc-exclusi...0#.T25yxKKDrp8

**gazhekwe** · March-24-12, 08:31 PM

Well, that is why there needs to be investigation to determine the facts. The parents say it was Trayvon's voice. I am quite sure there are ways to analyze the tapes and determine beyond a reasonable doubt who was yelling.

**rjk** · March-24-12, 08:38 PM

Have the official weights of the two people been released?

I hope people aren't making judgements based on the photos that have been released by TM's family. He doesn't look like he's any older than 12, maybe 13 years old in those photos. He was 17 at the time of his death.

**Detwa** · March-24-12, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by gazhekwe

Well, we have the recordings, so I am sure it will be settled who was yelling. It is very hard for me to believe the teen, who was reportedly trying to get away from Zimmerman, and who was a lot smaller, attacked the man. He ran between the houses and it was behind the houses that the incident occurred. So, if Zimmerman had given up the chase and was returning to his car, what was he doing behind the houses? If Trayvon was trying to get away from Zimmerman, why would he attack him once he quit the pursuit?

Well, the girlfriend on the phone with Trayvon at the time, reported that he asked the man why he was following him, and Zimmerman replied, what are you doing here - and then the scuffle and the phone drops. If Zimmerman indeed attacked or grabbed him first, its possible that Trayvon fought back and was able to overpower him. But then Zimmerman pulls his gun and shoots him, claiming self defense. But if you attack someone first, and cause them to fight for their lives, how can you then shoot them and claim self-defense, when you started it? That sounds like a helluva way to get rid of people you don't like, just start fights with them and get them to fight back, then off them and say you had to.

**Meddle** · March-24-12, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by Detwa

- and then the scuffle and the phone drops. If Zimmerman indeed attacked or grabbed him first, its possible that Trayvon fought back and was able to overpower him. But then Zimmerman pulls his gun and shoots him, claiming self defense.

And that's the part we don't know and may never know for sure; that 30 seconds or so, maybe longer.

But of course Al and Jesse don't care about that. They just want to get their mugs on TV again.

**rb336** · March-24-12, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

And that's the part we don't know and may never know for sure; that 30 seconds or so, maybe longer.

But of course Al and Jesse don't care about that. They just want to get their mugs on TV again.

we know enough. young man killed unjustly by a guy told NOT to pursue him by the police. stop your BS about al & jesse. Al was asked to come there by the family's minister, and he did so on the day his mother died. to think he did this for publicity is pure stupidity. Didn't see Jesse Jackson in any coverage. was he there, or is that just another racist assumption?

**Roq** · March-25-12, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by rb336

we know enough. young man killed unjustly by a guy told NOT to pursue him by the police. stop your BS about al & jesse. Al was asked to come there by the family's minister, and he did so on the day his mother died. to think he did this for publicity is pure stupidity. Didn't see Jesse Jackson in any coverage. was he there, or is that just another racist assumption?

Exactly. This is one case I feel Al should be there so the spotlight doesn't fade away and the Sanford Police can sweep it under the rug. I love how all of a sudden now there is an anonymous witness coming forward -- what do you want to bet it's one of those dopey neighbors in that complex? But of course, all the other witnesses I've seen and read who say Zimmerman was at fault aren't credible.

By the way, why can't they bring in Zimmerman for questioning? Don't the cops have the right to bring anyone in for 24-48 hours without charging them?

**Meddle** · March-25-12, 09:29 AM

A. Al's a media hound.

B. Zimmerman was questioned, so there is no need to detain him. They know how to contact him when they're ready.

C. So far, none of the witnesses against Zimmerman actually saw anything. They heard something, some kind of altercation, but they can't swear who was doing or saying what. I'm not even sure they can be considered 'against' Zimmerman.

**gazhekwe** · March-25-12, 10:34 AM

Goes to show how hard some will work to avoid facing the undisputed fact that the black teen was being chased by an angry suspicious white man simply because he was black.

**Johnnny5** · March-25-12, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by gazhekwe

Goes to show how hard some will work to avoid facing the undisputed fact that the black teen was being chased by an angry suspicious white man simply because he was black.

Please look up the definition of "undisputed" and "fact".

None of us know for sure what happened in this case. We are all basing our opinions on what has been reported in the media, rumors and our own personal biases.

Zimmerman very well may have shot Martin in cold blood without any valid reason. It's also just as possible that Martin physically assaulted Zimmerman and he shot in self defense. The truth is it's not against the law to follow a "suspicious" person, nor is against the law for a black man to be walking in a gated community. This is a tragedy that took the life of one man and no matter the outcome will probably end up destroying the life of another.