What If U.S. Collapses? Soviet Collapse Lessons Every American Needs To Know

DetroitDad · June-15-09, 10:28 AM

This is a collection of tables, images, and text, so I can't post the whole thing here. It is a very thought provoking read, and gets pretty good by the end.

http://madconomist.com/what-if-us-co...-needs-to-know

**Sstashmoo** · June-15-09, 11:23 AM

The whole article is assuming we're helpless and hopeless, we're not. Americans are the most resourceful and industrious people on the planet. Drive through the remote areas in the south. These people in many areas still exist on not much of anything. Economic collapse would just be business as usual for many of them.

ccbatson · June-15-09, 04:13 PM

Yes Sstash...we were, and still are resourceful. All the more reason to resist and then oust the liberal socialist Obama before he neuters us all.

**jiminnm** · June-15-09, 05:21 PM

What if the U.S. collapses?

That's the wrong thing to worry about. What if Krakatoa or Anak Krakatoa blows and blanks out the sun again? Better yet, what if an large asteroid or comet strikes the earth? What if Martians land? OMG !!

**gibran** · June-15-09, 05:28 PM

and put in whom cc ..the people that got us into this mess to begin with...

**jams** · June-15-09, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

Yes Sstash...we were, and still are resourceful. All the more reason to resist and then oust the liberal socialist Obama before he neuters us all.

Military coup? Assassination? Impeachment?

Last I heard the people elect a president in a vote to elect an electoral college to determine the winner and then accept and live with the result.

Many of us were unhappy with Bush/Cheney, but we lived with them until their term ended.

Sorry, Bucko, this is no Batsonia, it is a land and country based on the rule of law, learn to live with it!

**edgewood** · June-15-09, 06:12 PM

I am not happy with President Obama either, but what a bunch of crybaby sour grapes there are out there !

**Detroitej72** · June-15-09, 06:23 PM

Its funny, when the left complained about Bush, they right said they were unpatriotic. When the right complains about Obama, they are being patriotic!

Such double standards.

Lorax · June-16-09, 12:19 AM

Shape-shifting repugincans, that's all they know how to do.

Just assume that when a right winger says one thing, it means the opposite.

And just like a lawyer, you know he's lying when his lips are moving.

**MCP-001** · June-16-09, 12:17 PM

"As former Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher once observed, "The problem with socialism is that you run out of other people's money."

Not quite communism, but the end result is still the same.

ccbatson · June-16-09, 03:43 PM

Socialism is the road to Communism.

**bailey** · June-16-09, 03:46 PM

And just like a lawyer, you know he's lying when his lips are moving.

Except when he's arguing your cause or one with which you agree...then his motives are pure as the driven snow.

ccbatson · June-16-09, 03:48 PM

Obama is a very very good liar and practitioner of the deceptive arts...much better than CLinton was [[he was/is a pathologic liar)

**ghettopalmetto** · June-16-09, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

Obama is a very very good liar and practitioner of the deceptive arts...much better than CLinton was [[he was/is a pathologic liar)

For someone that surely bills $300 an hour or more for his opinion, are you sure you just want to be throwing it around for free like that? I mean, the two seconds it took you to develop that thought and type it just cost you at least $0.17.

**rb336** · June-16-09, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

Obama is a very very good liar and practitioner of the deceptive arts...much better than CLinton was [[he was/is a pathologic liar)

show me one lie and prove it's a lie and not a changed position based on new information or just shut the F up already

ccbatson · June-16-09, 03:52 PM

One? He doesn't want to own GM according to his words, but his actions assure government stake and ownership.

Happy?

**Detroitej72** · June-16-09, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

Socialism is the road to Communism.

So, when can we expect most of Europe to become communist? Oh, wait, Eastern Europe threw off the chains of communism several years ago.

Nice try though.

DetroitDad · June-16-09, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

The whole article is assuming we're helpless and hopeless, we're not. Americans are the most resourceful and industrious people on the planet. Drive through the remote areas in the south. These people in many areas still exist on not much of anything. Economic collapse would just be business as usual for many of them.

There was discussion on another forum I read, it was about how all the people who were waiting in line at gas stations for gas in California didn't have enough resourcefulness and sense to get out, park their car, and wait in line with a five or ten gallon gas can instead of running out of gasoline. Yeah, Americans are the epitome of resourcefulness alright.

Are you sure it is us who are resourceful, and not just our grandparents or great grandparents? What we are seeing right now is a build up of consequences of past mistakes along with a massive inability to manage. Isn't one of the things outlined in Marxism that the people of a capitalistic society eventually become mindless [[not innovative, unable to manage, not resourceful, etc.)?

Marx's Theory of Alienation is based upon his observation that in emerging industrial production under capitalism, workers inevitably lose control of their lives and selves, in not having any control of their work. Workers never become autonomous, self-realized human beings in any significant sense, except the way the bourgeois want the worker to be realized. Alienation in capitalist societies occurs because in work each contributes to the common wealth, but can only express this fundamentally social aspect of individuality through a production system that is not publicly[[socially) owned, but privately owned, for which each individual functions as an instrument, not as a social being:

'Let us suppose that we had carried out production as human beings. Each of us would have in two ways affirmed himself and the other person. 1) In my production I would have objectified my individuality, its specific character, and therefore enjoyed not only an individual manifestation of my life during the activity, but also when looking at the object I would have the individual pleasure of knowing my personality to be objective, visible to the senses and hence a power beyond all doubt. 2) In your enjoyment or use of my product I would have the direct enjoyment both of being conscious of having satisfied a human need by my work, that is, of having objectified man’s essential nature, and of having thus created an object corresponding to the need of another man’s essential nature. ... Our products would be so many mirrors in which we saw reflected our essential nature.'" [[Comment on James Mill)

Marx attributes four types of alienation in labour under capitalism. These include the alienation of the worker from his or her ‘species essence’ as a human being rather than a machine; between workers, since capitalism reduces labour to a commodity to be traded on the market, rather than a social relationship; of the worker from the product, since this is appropriated by the capitalist class, and so escapes the worker's control; and from the act of production itself, such that work comes to be a meaningless activity, offering little or no intrinsic satisfactions.

Marx also put emphasis on the role of religion in the alienation process, independently from his famous quote on the opium of the masses.

Simply put and taken directly from George Ritzer's: "Contemporary Sociological Theory and Its Roots", the four types of alienation of workers from capitalist/owners are: -Activities of the workers are chosen by the owners, capitalist; who in return pay them. -Ownership of production/product in hands of capitalist. -Workers are likely to be separated from their fellow workers. -Workers driven away from their potential and tasks become mindless.

What really would be scary is that communism failed, and so if capitalism fails, and socialism is a transitionary area, what is left? Is this an economic Rubik's Cube?

**Sstashmoo** · June-16-09, 10:34 PM

Quote: "people who were waiting in line at gas stations for gas in California didn't have enough resourcefulness and sense to get out, park their car, and wait in line with a five or ten gallon gas can instead of running out of gasoline."

Idiots, and there are armies of them. If our economy collapses, it will not be pretty. Many would have a very rough go of it. Many would manage though.

That's why I keep harping about our trade crisis, that our current President is backpedaling away from for some strange reason. A ten year old kid could see where our country is headed without manufacturing and "hoping" to rely on some "service" based economy. .

So far, their plan is leave the trade doors open, and matter of fact, open them wider. And borrow "our" money back, and pump into our broken system, so people can turn right around and send it back to our debtor. The most remarkable thing about it is how complacent everyone seems to be about this catastrophe. Virtually no outrage. A wise man once said: "this country will be taken with out a shot fired" How right he was.

ccbatson · June-16-09, 11:36 PM

"If our economy collapses" Stash? What do you think it is doing now?

**Sstashmoo** · June-16-09, 11:43 PM

Quote: "What do you think it is doing now?"

Just appeasing those in denial.

They're working on a "Free trade" agreement with South Korea now. South Korean President Lee is urging our companies to pressure congress to move swiftly and ratify. We're screwed folks.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...koDBwD98S2SH00

ccbatson · June-16-09, 11:45 PM

Much better, now, why is it collapsing so rapidly?

Quick hint, it has nothing to do with inheritance and everything to do with spending like a madman.

Lorax · June-17-09, 12:42 AM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

Obama is a very very good liar and practitioner of the deceptive arts...much better than CLinton was [[he was/is a pathologic liar)

Dick Cheney is the Father of Lies.

Compassionate Conservatism is an oxymoron.

George Bush is just a moron.

Lorax · June-17-09, 12:47 AM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

Socialism is the road to Communism.

Now I know what the CC stands for- it's a contraction of Confucius.

Confucius Batson say: Conservatism is the road to Fascism.

...and little starch in final rinse keep rinkle away.

**rb336** · June-17-09, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

One? He doesn't want to own GM according to his words, but his actions assure government stake and ownership.

Happy?

good god -- i do not believe you think people are stupid enough to buy that as a lie. sometimes expedience requires that we do what has to be done to avoid catastrophic results. I guess that incredibly simple-minded absolutism to which you subscribe doesn't allow for pragmatic action