Mr. Ilitch - About that arena...

**rb336** · March-09-12, 11:25 PM

Top this - please!

http://www.barclayscenter.com/renderings/

this makes me wish I still lived in Brooklyn [[that and the bagels), it's about 10 blocks up Flatbush Ave from my favorite Jamaican patties shop

ShoP Architects

**mikefmich** · March-09-12, 11:47 PM

I would seriously hope Illitch gives a rats patootie about exterior looks, and saves his best consideration for a functional and fan pleasing seat structure for the Wings....unlike his last stadium build.

**rb336** · March-09-12, 11:51 PM

the interior is designed for fans - close to the action, more vertical, designed to be LOUD

**Gistok** · March-10-12, 12:47 AM

Originally Posted by mikefmich

I would seriously hope Illitch gives a rats patootie about exterior looks, and saves his best consideration for a functional and fan pleasing seat structure for the Wings....unlike his last stadium build.

What do you mean by "fan pleasing"?? His stadium is made of brick, has Pewabic Pottery details, and those tigers that some of you love to hate have become a hit among tourists... I've had 8 buses of Europeans that wanted to have their group photos taken in front of it, and really enjoyed it. It's lightyears ahead in character compared to JLA and old Tiger Stadium.

And on the inside, you can watch the game from the ample spacious concession stands. Nice view of downtown towards the outfield, and the fountains are a nice touch.

Funny thing about the "less is more" folks... when I took the tour groups thru "less is more" Lafayette Park... their comments were... that bland look can be found anywhere... they wanted to see something different and interesting....

Occurrence · March-10-12, 12:55 AM

Did you just say Comerica Park is light-years ahead of Tiger Stadium in character? That might be the most ridiculous thing I have ever read on here.

**Gistok** · March-10-12, 01:05 AM

Originally Posted by Occurrence

Did you just say Comerica Park is light-years ahead of Tiger Stadium in character? That might be the most ridiculous thing I have ever read on here.

Well since you've only been here since October... you'll hear plenty... check out how photogenic the outside of Tiger Stadium is from the other 1954 Detroit thread....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIZhz...endscreen&NR=1

There's a difference between nostalgia for an old ballpark with good sight lines [[I wonder how many visitors liked being photographed in front of those blank walls), and the aesthetics of the new [[albeit poorer sight lines) stadium. Looks and sight lines are often mutually exclusive...

**EastsideAl** · March-10-12, 01:26 AM

But for watching baseball, which is after all the actual function of a ballpark, Tiger Stadium was light years ahead of Comerica Park [[and pretty much any other baseball stadium ever built). I wouldn't expect European tourists to understand that, but for those of us who went there to actually watch and experience the game of baseball, it matters much more than anything else. And particularly more than ridiculous kitsch like Tiger sculptures.

**Gistok** · March-10-12, 02:14 AM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

But for watching baseball, which is after all the actual function of a ballpark, Tiger Stadium was light years ahead of Comerica Park [[and pretty much any other baseball stadium ever built). I wouldn't expect European tourists to understand that, but for those of us who went there to actually watch and experience the game of baseball, it matters much more than anything else. And particularly more than ridiculous kitsch like Tiger sculptures.

We've argued this point before... not wasting any more time on artistic merit versus function.

**corktownyuppie** · March-10-12, 08:36 AM

We've argued this point before... not wasting any more time on artistic merit versus function.

Agreed. At this point I'd say it's a 50/50 shot that this thread devolves into a Bing vs. Kwame vs. CAY discussion.

**rb336** · March-10-12, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

But for watching baseball, which is after all the actual function of a ballpark, Tiger Stadium was light years ahead of Comerica Park [[and pretty much any other baseball stadium ever built).

unless you were in one of the approx 1/4 of the seats behind one of the giant I-beams

**401don** · March-10-12, 08:50 AM

Looks like they dropped an arena down on a hwy median. You better be sober crossing those lanes after the game.

**Wheels** · March-10-12, 09:25 AM

This is a cartoon done by an artist. Put it in the real world and show me what you got.

**iheartthed** · March-10-12, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by Wheels

This is a cartoon done by an artist. Put it in the real world and show me what you got.

Here are some photos from January: http://newyork.cbslocal.com/photo-ga...tion-update-4/

When I last saw it I believe the roof had been finished. I'm going to be in that area today so I'll try to remember to see if they have put more of the siding on.

**rb336** · March-10-12, 03:36 PM

can you run down to the patty restaurant and send me some beef patties?

**Jason** · March-10-12, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

What do you mean by "fan pleasing"?? His stadium is made of brick, has Pewabic Pottery details, and those tigers that some of you love to hate have become a hit among tourists... I've had 8 buses of Europeans that wanted to have their group photos taken in front of it, and really enjoyed it. It's lightyears ahead in character compared to JLA and old Tiger Stadium.

And on the inside, you can watch the game from the ample spacious concession stands. Nice view of downtown towards the outfield, and the fountains are a nice touch.

Funny thing about the "less is more" folks... when I took the tour groups thru "less is more" Lafayette Park... their comments were... that bland look can be found anywhere... they wanted to see something different and interesting....

They wanted to see something different and interesting... like cookie cutter disney land architecture like you can find in every single theme park and tourist trap in the country.

And of course tourists don't appreciate Lafayette Park. Being European doesn't make someone automatically cultured. If you had architects in the tour they'd think that Lafayette Park was great, and they'd shake their heads at Comerica Park.

Comerica Park has no character. It's artificial and fake. Places like Tiger Stadium and the Joe have character because they're authentic. The character flows from that, not kitsch and theming. They're more dignified.

And I don't think I've ever heard of someone using the opinions of tourists to validate ideas about things like authenticity and taste.

**rb336** · March-10-12, 07:30 PM

essentially, Jason, it's a matter of taste. Your taste is no more objective than anyone else's. Frankly, Tiger Stadium was nothing special. It was no Wrigley Field, it was cramped for anyone over 6', it stank, the previously mentioned obstructed views, etc. The Joe is as bland and dull as a pre-fab warehouse and has similar acoustic characteristics. If those are your ideas of "character," I'll take someone else's any day of the week

Occurrence · March-10-12, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by rb336

Frankly, Tiger Stadium was nothing special.

You can't be serious?

**Wheels** · March-10-12, 07:47 PM

Tiger Stadium was a run down dump with disgusting bathrooms and some of the seating was a joke. If you go back in time it was basically on skid row. It was not a great loss.

**iheartthed** · March-10-12, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by rb336

can you run down to the patty restaurant and send me some beef patties?

Which one? And is it still there?

**Bham1982** · March-10-12, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Which one? And is it still there?

I bet you he means Christie's Jamaican Patties, which are pretty good, and a few blocks down Flatbush, more towards Prospect Park.

Re. Comerica Park, I think it's pretty good. Yes, it's kitschy, but it's been quite successful in terms of attendance and revenue, and the kitsch fits the target demographic.

**Gistok** · March-10-12, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by Jason

They wanted to see something different and interesting... like cookie cutter disney land architecture like you can find in every single theme park and tourist trap in the country.

And of course tourists don't appreciate Lafayette Park. Being European doesn't make someone automatically cultured. If you had architects in the tour they'd think that Lafayette Park was great, and they'd shake their heads at Comerica Park.

Comerica Park has no character. It's artificial and fake. Places like Tiger Stadium and the Joe have character because they're authentic. The character flows from that, not kitsch and theming. They're more dignified.

And I don't think I've ever heard of someone using the opinions of tourists to validate ideas about things like authenticity and taste.

I remember Mark Twain's famous comments....

"Mark Twain on the mind-expanding power of travel

“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one’s lifetime.”
–Mark Twain, The Innocents Abroad [[1869)"

Jason, this is not directed to you... but just something we should all think about.

As for the Disney'esque comments.... what is among the top tourist destinations in the world.... Disney World.

Like I said... it's pointless to discuss the merits of Tiger Stadium and especially JLA... people here will wax poetically at the trough urinals as though they were works of art. I was kinda grossed out by such an arrangement.

Like I said one persons trash, is another persons treasure... that holds true for entertainment venues as well as anything in life. To somehow imply that Comerica Park is kitsch and not worthy of Detroit, while the overexuberance of the Fox Theatre is a place that you take a lady on a fine date... well one cannot quantify why one is one thing and the other is not. There's no rhyme or reason.

As for Europeans [[not just tourists) their microcosm of architecture is much more varied than the USA... and with the next culture only a few miles away [[instead of an ocean away)... I think that their comments bear something a bit more sophisticated than ridicule.

When the movie palaces of the 1920s were built... architectural historians derided them as nothing more than fake fantasylands of architectural "grimmaces".... no different than folks today who dislike what they refer to kitsch of Comerica Park and other places.

Architecture comes in many flavors... if you don't like it... go on the next flavor... I can understand the nostalgic feeling for the loss of Tiger Stadium... it's been discussed here dozens of times... but it's pointless to somehow enhance it as a wonderful work of architecture... when it never was...

And as for The Joe.... I've been to old Olympia... and that was a work of art compared to the windowless Pole Barn along the river that should somehow be revered because of a few extra flags hanging from it.

Mourn the loss of Tiger Stadium.... yes... but The Joe?? Nostalgia is fine... but I don't think that The Joe really qualifies.... There's a difference between "on the cheap" such as JLA, and a quality product, such as The Palace. [[P.S. I'd rather see a combined arena in Detroit that would wow us all.....)

**rb336** · March-10-12, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Which one? And is it still there?

that's the one!

damn, I miss prospect park now too. and a good knish

**ghettopalmetto** · March-11-12, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by rb336

essentially, Jason, it's a matter of taste. Your taste is no more objective than anyone else's. Frankly, Tiger Stadium was nothing special. It was no Wrigley Field, it was cramped for anyone over 6', it stank, the previously mentioned obstructed views, etc. The Joe is as bland and dull as a pre-fab warehouse and has similar acoustic characteristics. If those are your ideas of "character," I'll take someone else's any day of the week

Things like the smell and cleanliness of Briggs/Tiger Stadium are maintenance issues, not architectural. Sure, it may have been cramped, but so is Fenway if you're over 5'-8". The Corner was subjected to some architecturally deficient additions and renovations over the years, but man, what a terrific place to watch a ballgame.

As for the renderings of the Barclays Center, it [[literally) looks like a steaming pile of dung. I would expect far better in New York.

**iheartthed** · March-11-12, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

As for the renderings of the Barclays Center, it [[literally) looks like a steaming pile of dung. I would expect far better in New York.

lol.

Name: photo [[2).jpg
Views: 1051
Size: 45.3 KB

Name: photo [[3).jpg
Views: 982
Size: 47.1 KB

I don't think it looks too bad. I like that they didn't really have to demolish much of anything to put the stadium in... Especially in a city already as densely packed with buildings as New York. That's called efficient uses of land, Detroit.