Ornery neighbors

**Gsgeorge** · June-14-09, 02:39 PM

What is the DYes consensus on dealing with ornery neighbors? Let me tell you about a little problem we have in our neighborhood -- hopefully you guys will have some ideas on how to take care of this.

My house is between the block, built on the alleyway, and we have a balcony that faces our side yard and a few other houses. 10:30 PM last night, two friends and I are hanging out on my balcony. All of sudden, out comes our ornery neighbor -- who we've had "noise complaints" from in the past, nothing official, but a lot of complaining about us talking on the porch past dark. She says the "acoustics" are such that she can "hear every word" and that "we're welcome to come out on the porch if we keep our voices down." Well, now! I tell her to mind her own BS, that we're out here for maybe ten minutes at the most and then heading back inside, and anyway it's a Saturday night and it's MY porch, so you can't exactly tell me how to act out here. Then she accuses us of being "raucous students" -- unlike those responsible, "real people" with "real jobs"... Well I was sorry to break the news that both my roomate & I are graduated and working legitimate jobs in the city & actually CONTRIBUTING something, unlike those "oh-so-raucous" students that seem to be moving in lately.... Puh-lease. She "thanked" us with the most sarcasm she possibly could muster, and then let her dogs run around the yard for a bit, yapping, until she hobbled back inside to work on her witches brew & fume about who-knows-what.

Oh, brother. First off -- we were talking at normal tones. 10:30PM on Saturday is hardly the quietest hour of the day in Detroit. Also we're on our own property, and there's nothing I can personally do about her "acoustics".

The real kicker is that she has about seven little rat-dogs that come out in her yard at 7AM-8AM every morning, yapping up a storm, and we haven't complained about that at all.

So now that I've vented a little -- what to do, DYes? Is there some clever, not malicious, MacGyver type way to get back at her and keep her at bay?

What is your experience with ornery neighbors in the D?

**MDoyle** · June-14-09, 02:51 PM

I had a similar issue. My upstairs neighbors were both med students @ WSU. I was actually hollered at for having the music up too loud in the middle of the day on a weekday. He snarked something about being a punk student which Im not, I work from home and already finished scool. I sort of blew up on him over the snarky comment but it boiled down to me telling him I can hear him every time hes snoring or getting intimate with his wife thats how thin the walls are. That shut him up but we went on antagonizing each other for 5 more months before he and his wife moved out. He yelled at my roomate for being too loud for dancing on a sunday afternoon to the jackson 5 on the porch with our 5 and 8 year old neighbors. ha.

**Sstashmoo** · June-14-09, 02:54 PM

You nor she has the right to annoy one another. Her dogs at 7:00 AM are probably a violation of city ordinanace. In the same breath, you have no right to annoy her at 10:30 PM. Check the city ordinances on peace and quiet if there are any and act appropriately. If you're outside, keep your voices low after a certain hour. If her dogs are waking you up, file a complaint.

**lafontaine** · June-14-09, 03:08 PM

Log in a complaint on this site:

http://www.rottenneighbor.com/

You may want to read their forum:

http://www.rottenneighbor.com/forum/

diver1369 · June-14-09, 03:13 PM

gs, It's sounds like your neighbor is trying to be reasonable rather than confrontational. I think it's time for you to approach her about the issues both of you have regarding noise, her AM dogs, your PM conversations. Coming to a meeting of the minds will go a long way towards resolving your current situation and setting a precedent for any future discussions that may arise.

Back in the mid 70s I lived in a lower flat in the U-D area in a corner house, 6 Mile/Livernois, and had a fraternity that lived in the upper flat. It seemed like every other weekend there was a party upstairs. Eventually, the block club threatened legal action until we met with them and complied to their wishes regarding noise and property upkeep. The lower flat took care of the yard work and the upper flat reined in the noise and parties. No more Humble Pie At the Fillmore.

**rjk** · June-14-09, 03:22 PM

Even if you're in the right, swallow your pride, talk to her and apologize if not for what happened for the lack of communication between the two of you. You're going to have to deal with her if she's your neighbor and there's no sense in escalating things and getting into a constant pissing match.

**Gsgeorge** · June-14-09, 03:59 PM

Thanks for the responses. diver & rj, good advice. I will let things cool down and approach her. Updates will follow, surely.

**Jimaz** · June-14-09, 04:00 PM

Good fences make good neighbors.

**gazhekwe** · June-14-09, 04:39 PM

I had the same issue with a neighbor wanting to have his guests outside on a hot night, perfectly reasonable, really. But they had been drinking and they were all talking at once, and the noise level was really annoying. I was trying to sleep and it was after 11:00. I leaned out my window and called Yoohooo! Can you hear me? Cause I can sure hear you! They piped right down, bless them. I have the nicest neighbors in town. I would have gone over and said something, but I was in my pjs and didn't feel like getting dressed again.

Maybe you, like them, just didn't realize the impact of your voices on someone trying to sleep right next door. It would be most considerate of you to lower your voices once you know someone nearby has turned in, consideriing the close proximity of the houses there.

**Ray1936** · June-14-09, 04:43 PM

After 10 p.m., take it inside if you're gonna chatter. I'm on your neighbor's side on this one.

**sumas** · June-14-09, 06:20 PM

I am not sure I agree with previous posters except that you do need some communication with your neighbor. It sounds like you infrequently use your porch to socialize, yet your neighbor's dogs are a constant. It seems reasonable to me that if you occaisionally wish to sit out until eleven or even midnight talking on a weekend, it is a reasonable hour. Blaring music [[preferably no blaring music) should be shut off by ten.

I, personally, am very tolerant of neighbor's annoying behavior's if it is infrequent. Everyone needs to party and get loose once in a while. We lived for 14 years in shared flats. Never had many problems. Once, a downstairs neighbor and a friend complained in a very nice way about our sons music since it went through the pipes into his bedroom. He was a friend and asked should he talk to our son or did we want to. We told him you do it, since he will listen to you! Worked fine.

Enjoy your balcony, if she is is a witch, ignore it, as long as you know you are acting reasonably.

Lorax · June-14-09, 06:41 PM

Sounds like mediation is the best recourse here, I'm sure, if she is a reasonable person, she will work with you.

If not, you can take a fist full of hamburger, laced with tranquilizers, and toss it to her dogs, and she'll get the message.

Or a few new potatoes shoved up the tailpipe of her car would also work!

Sorry, but sometimes good advice doesn't work.

**grumpyoldlady** · June-14-09, 07:11 PM

When on the porch, I think I would start talking about how you contacted city officials and that she is in violation of some ordinance that says how many dogs you can have, and that if she continues to complain, you will turn her in. If she truly can hear you, that should do the trick.

cheddar bob · June-14-09, 07:48 PM

You could ask the person who posts here as "Vince" about his animal relocation programs.

**DetroitPlanner** · June-14-09, 07:54 PM

Hey your neighbor could be worse.. instead of having rat dogs she could have loud-ass kids who have friends with loud-ass cars and bad attitudes.

**48202** · June-14-09, 08:21 PM

Gsgeorge, it’s all about consideration. Your neighbor asked you to be quieter in a reasonably nice way. She recognized that you have a right to use your porch, and asked you to tone it down to in consideration of her needs. You should have tried your best to be quieter. Some other time when the neighbor’s dogs are yapping away when you’re trying to sleep, you could have asked her for the same consideration.

**Islandman** · June-14-09, 08:31 PM

Thank you Cheddar!

**wolverine** · June-14-09, 11:59 PM

Gs, here in AA, we have a neighboring building that has been problematic because of the balconies. My apartment building is deep with an alley alongside, but the structure next door is shallow so most of us are within earshot of people on the balconies.

Even with music on in my own unit, I've heard alot of private stuff from them outside. Some people in our building have complained, but said they don't mind the noise on Fridays and Saturdays as long as it doesn't go beyond 3:00 AM. Anytime after midnight Sunday-Thursday we've requested they not talk at all on their balconies.

Someone contacted their landlord and apparently these rules were already established on their leases.

**Gsgeorge** · June-15-09, 12:01 AM

48202, maybe it didn't come across in my first post, but the point was she was most definitiely NOT nice & reasonable, but rather very confrontational and patronizing. If she had approached us nicely it would have been a lot different.

**48202** · June-15-09, 02:18 AM

Gsgeorge: With a confrontational and patronizing tone, she wouldn’t have listened to any attempt to reason with her. Mentioning her yapping dogs at that time certainly wouldn’t have helped you. And, since you told her to mind her own BS, you now know what her response will be if you do try to address the dog issue.

**gnome** · June-15-09, 05:36 AM

GSG, I think your response hinges on a couple of variables. The key question is how long are you planning on living there. 6 mos or a year leads to completely different answers than 5 years+.

If you're a short timer, invest in roman candles and practise your aim.

Toolbox · June-15-09, 06:36 AM

Just don't do whatever django did. Your neighbors will throw rocks at you, pull guns and burn your house down.

**East Detroit** · June-15-09, 06:42 AM

Originally Posted by Gsgeorge

48202, maybe it didn't come across in my first post, but the point was she was most definitiely NOT nice & reasonable, but rather very confrontational and patronizing. If she had approached us nicely it would have been a lot different.

You're making noise outside after 10PM. A standard no-no. How much did you expect her to kiss your ass?

**scuola** · June-15-09, 06:47 AM

Originally Posted by Gsgeorge

She says the "acoustics" are such that she can "hear every word" and that "we're welcome to come out on the porch if we keep our voices down." Well, now! I tell her to mind her own BS

Did you ever think to man it up and tone your volume down a notch? This isn't the Wild West here, you have to be considerate of your neighbors.

**Linda from Detroit** · June-15-09, 07:26 AM

Years ago my aunt had some horrible problems with neighbors. On the one side was a couple I can only call gardeners...nice people until they decided to take visitors outside at 3:00am with flashlights to see "That BEAUTIFUL rose!" right outside the bedroom window. At least it didn't happen in the winter. On the other side was a family that had to have originated in the Northville State Hospital. It was typical to find them peeking in windows, blaring music on HER porch [[not theirs) and threatening to burn the house down. Hate to say it but my cousin finally had it [[she was a pretty rotten kid) and she called the local funeral home and told them her poor dad just passed away and gave that neighbors name and address. Wasn't but a few moments until the funeral director showed up and when the deceased answered the door it was even less time until the police were there. Poor guy ended up back in Northville, but no one from that house bothered my aunt again.