Silver Line BRT

**DetroitPlanner** · February-15-12, 09:42 AM

In the next budget DOT will recommend the funding of Grand Rapid's Silverline BRT service.

http://www.fta.dot.gov/documents/MI_...le_FY_2013.pdf

The nearly 10 mile long transit line will link city with suburb and cost just over $35 million. During peak hours, service will be based on 10 minute headways and off-peak on 15 minute ones. The region has come together and passed a tax increase to help pay for this added service that will be fed by important E-W buslines such as 28th Street.

What can our region learn from our smaller region to the West? We need to work as one region to solve our problems. No us against them.

We need to be able to demonstrate support for transit or we are going to continuously be fighting an exercise in futility if we want buy in from federal leaders.

Republicans are not the enemy of public transit. This area is about as republican as it gets in the USA. Divisiveness is the enemy of public transit. Trying to bite off more than you can chew is the enemy of public transit. No willingness to provide matching or operating dollars are the enemy of public transit.

I am posting this as an example of how not being divisive allows processes to work towards achieving goals. I could care less about mode, only that the system shows improvements and that the improvements are sustainable based upon funding.

We can learn a lot from this.

**Wesley Mouch** · February-15-12, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

...<snip>...What can our region learn from our smaller region to the West? We need to work as one region to solve our problems. No us against them.

We need to be able to demonstrate support for transit or we are going to continuously be fighting an exercise in futility if we want buy in from federal leaders....<snip>

That a lot of our presumptions about politicians of the left [[and right) are based on old ideas -- and the statements of radicals on the both sides.

LBPatterson and Engler might never have supported Detroit in search for federal transit dollars, but Snyder will -- and maybe even vigorously.

A lot can get done when your mind is open.

Go GR.

**bailey** · February-15-12, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

In the next budget DOT will recommend the funding of Grand Rapid's Silverline BRT service.

http://www.fta.dot.gov/documents/MI_...le_FY_2013.pdf

The nearly 10 mile long transit line will link city with suburb and cost just over $35 million. During peak hours, service will be based on 10 minute headways and off-peak on 15 minute ones. The region has come together and passed a tax increase to help pay for this added service that will be fed by important E-W buslines such as 28th Street.

What can our region learn from our smaller region to the West? We need to work as one region to solve our problems. No us against them.

We need to be able to demonstrate support for transit or we are going to continuously be fighting an exercise in futility if we want buy in from federal leaders.

Republicans are not the enemy of public transit. This area is about as republican as it gets in the USA. Divisiveness is the enemy of public transit. Trying to bite off more than you can chew is the enemy of public transit. No willingness to provide matching or operating dollars are the enemy of public transit.

I am posting this as an example of how not being divisive allows processes to work towards achieving goals. I could care less about mode, only that the system shows improvements and that the improvements are sustainable based upon funding.

We can learn a lot from this.

Its easy to be cooperative when the population is pretty homogeneous. If Grand Rapids were Pontiac, I doubt the benighted right wing folks that dominate Kent county and the GR region would be so gracious.

**Wesley Mouch** · February-15-12, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

Its easy to be cooperative when the population is pretty homogeneous. If Grand Rapids were Pontiac, I doubt the benighted right wing folks that dominate Kent county and the GR region would be so gracious.

Snyder is on board w.r.t Detroit transit?

He's not homogeneous with Detroit's.

Therefore, homogeneity not required.

The times, they are a a changin'.

**bailey** · February-15-12, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Snyder is on board w.r.t Detroit transit?

He's not homogeneous with Detroit's.

Therefore, homogeneity not required.

The times, they are a a changin'.

What Snyder wants is irrelevant if Oakland, Macomb and outer wayne stand against him.

**lukabottle** · February-15-12, 11:31 AM

Thanks for posting this Detroit Planner! I just returned to Detroit after living in Cali and Quebec for the last 4 years and have been out of the loop as far as what other cities in Michigan are doing. I am working on my Master's Supervised Research Project [[thesis) on funding transit and what might be feasible as a dedicated funding source in the Detroit region. This information was extremely helpful.

**j to the jeremy** · February-15-12, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

What Snyder wants is irrelevant if Oakland, Macomb and outer wayne stand against him.

Macomb and Wayne have already publicly supported RTA ideas and the concept of a tax. It's L. Brooks versus reality!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**Detroitnerd** · February-15-12, 01:20 PM

Still pushin' the bus, huh? Pffftt...

**DetroitPlanner** · February-15-12, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Still pushin' the bus, huh? Pffftt...

I don't push any mode above another. I do however want any decisions to be made with as much information about a project as possible. If agreed to, I will get behind anything to adminster it. My role in the process is to make things happen not to put tohether a long term plan. That does not mean I don't have an opinion about what I want done, and I do have a high level of expertise on what makes a successful project and what don't get out of the gate. The point of this not the mode, but the cooperation and funding mechansims that went into selecting the project in the first place. It seems that a lot of the ideas getting vetted here are not being done so without anyone asking questions regarding fiscal or political feasibility. Then they are let down when things don't work out.

**Detroitnerd** · February-15-12, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

I don't push any mode above another. I do however want any decisions to be made with as much information about a project as possible. If agreed to, I will get behind anything to adminster it. My role in the process is to make things happen not to put tohether a long term plan. That does not mean I don't have an opinion about what I want done, and I do have a high level of expertise on what makes a successful project and what don't get out of the gate. The point of this not the mode, but the cooperation and funding mechansims that went into selecting the project in the first place. It seems that a lot of the ideas getting vetted here are not being done so without anyone asking questions regarding fiscal or political feasibility. Then they are let down when things don't work out.

This comment is not nec. directed at you, DP, though given our past conversations I could see where you'd think it was. No, just throwing my hands up that other states' cities get LRT whereas Michigan gets buses, buses, buses.

**cramerro** · February-16-12, 10:23 AM

Looks like Cleveland is going to push for more BRT, since light rail is struggling. THey just annouced what seems like a last-ditch effort to boost LRT ridership enough to keep it running...

Cleveland Hires celebrity riders to ride grey line, boost ridership

**DetroitPlanner** · February-16-12, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by cramerro

Looks like Cleveland is going to push for more BRT, since light rail is struggling. THey just annouced what seems like a last-ditch effort to boost LRT ridership enough to keep it running...

Cleveland Hires celebrity riders to ride grey line, boost ridership

They would do better by hiring LaBron James and letting people pelt him with rotten tomatoes.

**cramerro** · February-16-12, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

They would do better by hiring LaBron James and letting people pelt him with rotten tomatoes.

I think we just stumbled upon an economic multiplier for Cleveland... if they did hire LeBron, Dan Gilbert would then hire people to ride the train to pelt him incessantly. Sounds like a great opporuntity for a local tax credit...

**j to the jeremy** · February-16-12, 11:57 AM

You know the Onion is fake, right? Sometimes I'm not sure if people on here do know....

**cramerro** · February-16-12, 12:02 PM

Sometimes the Onion is all too real...

http://www.theonion.com/video/obama-...ith-hig,18473/

Please take the time to watch the video.. the 3-d simulation of buses weaving in and out of highway traffic at 165 MPH is the best!!

**j to the jeremy** · February-16-12, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by cramerro

Sometimes the Onion is all too real...

http://www.theonion.com/video/obama-...ith-hig,18473/

Please take the time to watch the video.. the 3-d simulation of buses weaving in and out of highway traffic at 165 MPH is the best!!

yeah I know haha.

This is my favorite right now http://www.theonion.com/articles/doc...d-men-s,27326/

*end threadjack

**EastsideAl** · February-16-12, 01:38 PM

Grand Rapids? And here I thought this thread was about that stupid, slow Silver Line BRT electric/diesel subway/bus thingie they run in several disconnected pieces in Boston because they were too cheap to build an actual subway line.

The G.R. thing, no matter how well it works [[and I am highly dubious about BRT) does sound like a nice example of regional cooperation that other areas in Michigan [[ahem...) should follow. Even if BRT is not likely to be a good answer for some of the transit problems face by a far larger and more populous metro area like Detroit's.

Of course, as noted above, it does help in achieving such cooperation to do it in an area largely free of racial hate/fear/animosity/resentment.

**DetroitPlanner** · February-16-12, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

The G.R. thing, no matter how well it works [[and I am highly dubious about BRT) does sound like a nice example of regional cooperation that other areas in Michigan [[ahem...) should follow. Even if BRT is not likely to be a good answer for some of the transit problems face by a far larger and more populous metro area like Detroit's.

Really? How about New York City? http://www.nyc.gov/html/brt/html/routes/first_ave.shtml

I have heard nightmares about the Silver Line in Boston. Some of the roads that it goes down look like alleys! Real screwy route because some of its stations are actually underground and quite sleek. go figure.

**Dexlin** · February-17-12, 04:15 AM

EastsideAl,

The Silver Line BRT literally runs through a few communities [[maybe only three, Grand Rapids included), and all of which are within Kent County and the vast amount of which is in Grand Rapids proper, itself. Just to be clear, the Silver Line isn't some major example of regional cooperation, particularly because it simple replaces an existing bus route. It's really just an upgrade of something existing, and it's not true BRT.

**DetroitPlanner** · February-17-12, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by Dexlin

EastsideAl,

The Silver Line BRT literally runs through a few communities [[maybe only three, Grand Rapids included), and all of which are within Kent County and the vast amount of which is in Grand Rapids proper, itself. Just to be clear, the Silver Line isn't some major example of regional cooperation, particularly because it simple replaces an existing bus route. It's really just an upgrade of something existing, and it's not true BRT.

Others disagree [[from Freep):
http://www.ridetherapid.org/articles...c-transit-path