Are there any new plans for the Pontchartrain Hotel building?

**detroitmale** · February-09-12, 04:03 PM

Has anyone heard any new news regarding the Pontchartrain Hotel building? It is VERY vital that the hotel is reopened by some other hotel chain. It sits directly next door to the newly renovated Cobo Hall therefore it's very vital that it's up and running. I wish Mr. Dan Gilbert would buy that building and lease it out to profitable hotel chain.

**davewindsor** · February-10-12, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by detroitmale

Has anyone heard any new news regarding the Pontchartrain Hotel building? It is VERY vital that the hotel is reopened by some other hotel chain. It sits directly next door to the newly renovated Cobo Hall therefore it's very vital that it's up and running. I wish Mr. Dan Gilbert would buy that building and lease it out to profitable hotel chain.

http://www.farbman.com/Properties/DRH.html A court appointed receiver has it listed for sale with Farbman Realty. There's no asking price. Anyone who inquiries has to sign a confidentiality agreement so they can' t post information about it here.

**Brian1979** · February-10-12, 08:57 AM

Knock it down, it's an ugly building anyways.

**sycloneman** · February-10-12, 08:58 AM

It would be great if someone would see the potential and sink some money into the property. I agree with Detroitmale in that it is a very important location to have a up and running hotel.

**JBMcB** · February-10-12, 09:16 AM

I agree with Brian - great site, nice view, ugly building. Doesn't integrate with the surrounding buildings at all. Knock it down - turn it into a park until a proper development can be found.

In a sane environment, the owner of Cobo would buy the property, install an updated hotel building and integrate it with the convention hall, including a tunnel or skywalk, like nearly every other convention center I've been to.

**antongast** · February-10-12, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by Brian1979

Knock it down, it's an ugly building anyways.

I dunno, I kind of like it. Besides, it's not like downtown has a shortage of empty lots.

**DetroitPlanner** · February-10-12, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by JBMcB

In a sane environment, the owner of Cobo would buy the property, install an updated hotel building and integrate it with the convention hall, including a tunnel or skywalk, like nearly every other convention center I've been to.

Last thing we need is a skywalk or tunnel, lots of cost, maintenance, upkeep for such a short distance. Most planners frown on them as they take people off the streets. Peopel on the streets = active street life and safety.

**Gistok** · February-10-12, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Last thing we need is a skywalk or tunnel, lots of cost, maintenance, upkeep for such a short distance. Most planners frown on them as they take people off the streets. Peopel on the streets = active street life and safety.

But it's not like there's any retail between the two. When the Cobo "TETRIS" expansion was implemented, it was designed so that a walkway across from the hotel was indeed a posssibilitiy. I don't think it would be such a bad idea to have a walkway... it's a much better idea than the ill thought out plan of a moving walkway between the RenCen and Cobo.... now that was a doozie...

And speaking of walkways.... it's long overdue to take down the one between the Guardian Building and One Woodward Ave., the one up around the 19th floor.

**animatedmartian** · February-10-12, 10:35 AM

I would be happy if they tore it down and built something new. I don't think it's completely ugly, but it's pretty outdated and doesn't really use the full lot anyway.

**Gistok** · February-10-12, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

I would be happy if they tore it down and built something new. I don't think it's completely ugly, but it's pretty outdated and doesn't really use the full lot anyway.

If they had plans for a new building, I too wouldn't be upset if it were torn down. But at some point in the past the idea was to build a 2nd tower [[another 400 rooms) on the site [[there is room), but nothing ever came of it.

**JBMcB** · February-10-12, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Last thing we need is a skywalk or tunnel, lots of cost, maintenance, upkeep for such a short distance. Most planners frown on them as they take people off the streets. Peopel on the streets = active street life and safety.

That's true pretty much everywhere except for hotels adjacent to conference centers. If you are planning a conference you don't want your attendees dodging four lanes of traffic, through the snow, to travel 200 yards from the hotel to the conference center.

Note that I'm talking about business conferences - the Auto show and other big shows are important to Cobo, but to become profitable it has to attract as many smaller business conferences as possible. Right now it's competing with the Ren-Cen and casinos for that business - which are all integrated conference-hotel facilities. Believe me, when considering where to host a conference, how your attendees are going to get to it is a major factor.

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · February-10-12, 11:27 AM

Keep it. I think its a great period piece from an era not yet fully appreciated. I stayed there once in the late 1970's - loved the views from those funky angled windows. Add something else to the property perhaps, such as another low building with a bar or restaurant or shops?

**DLife** · February-10-12, 11:36 AM

I could see an apartment/hotel happening with the building. Strong rental demands will continue the next 5 years, so doing the mix like the Book/Shelby makes sense.

**j to the jeremy** · February-10-12, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast

Keep it. I think its a great period piece from an era not yet fully appreciated. I stayed there once in the late 1970's - loved the views from those funky angled windows. Add something else to the property perhaps, such as another low building with a bar or restaurant or shops?

Agreed, I think its one of the few from that era that could look sweet with spruced up entrances and more integration on the street level

**401don** · February-10-12, 11:46 AM

Worst part of it being empty is the terrible message it sends to conventioneers, the ones who are in town for 2 days, don't get around to the rest of downtown, and see it directly across from a newly renovated Cobo. Maybe some nice red awnings?

**DetroitPlanner** · February-10-12, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by JBMcB

That's true pretty much everywhere except for hotels adjacent to conference centers. If you are planning a conference you don't want your attendees dodging four lanes of traffic, through the snow, to travel 200 yards from the hotel to the conference center.

Note that I'm talking about business conferences - the Auto show and other big shows are important to Cobo, but to become profitable it has to attract as many smaller business conferences as possible. Right now it's competing with the Ren-Cen and casinos for that business - which are all integrated conference-hotel facilities. Believe me, when considering where to host a conference, how your attendees are going to get to it is a major factor.

"Charlotte is very interesting. They have a problem. They have, it’s the over street mall which is essentially a shopping corridor, and it joins by second level walkways with other stores and whatnot. Street tracking is very successful. But they do have a problem, and this is what happens when you go to a second level hood. What are you going to do to your street level? When you start pulling your people up on that second level, what are you going to do to your ground level?" http://archives.nbclearn.com/portal/...?cuecard=44993

"The real killer, however, is the skyway network" http://books.google.com/books?id=pjO...etlife&f=false

"The math makes sense, at least on its face. But it means that the century-old vision of the Mall as the center of civic life, articulated in Chicago architect Daniel Burnham's famous 1903 Group Plan for downtown, is being abandoned by the present generation.
Worse still, backers of the convention center and medical mart proposal want to build a large new system of underground and overhead walkways to connect the new facilities at Tower City Center to the rest of downtown." "In other words, you'll never have to set foot on a city street.
That's a prescription for a socially stratified downtown where visitors are separated from locals and where street-level retailers are starved of traffic.
"You won't have to deal with [[black people) or poor people," said Hunter Morrison, who served as the city's planning director in the 1980s and '90s. "It's a well-known fact that these overhead or underground walkways provide for economic segregation and take street life off the street."
http://www.cleveland.com/arts/index...._locate_a.html

Here is one about a proposed overhead walkway to a casino. I won't comment on how the article praises brt. http://blog.cleveland.com/architectu...es_are_wi.html

**gnome** · February-10-12, 12:12 PM

In my opinion:
- The rooms in the Pontch are small by modern standards.
- The outdoor pool is maybe the worse place to swim in North America as it has all the charm of a mobile dunk tank set up in a WalMart parking lot.
- The lobby doesn't welcome visitors.
- The underground parking is difficult.
- The Wash Ave street wall shuts off Cobo peds
- The wind tunnel effect at the entrance assaults visitors

- The walk-way idea might be good or bad but the problems with the hotel overshadows everything.

**swingline** · February-10-12, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by JBMcB

That's true pretty much everywhere except for hotels adjacent to conference centers. If you are planning a conference you don't want your attendees dodging four lanes of traffic, through the snow, to travel 200 yards from the hotel to the conference center.

Note that I'm talking about business conferences - the Auto show and other big shows are important to Cobo, but to become profitable it has to attract as many smaller business conferences as possible. Right now it's competing with the Ren-Cen and casinos for that business - which are all integrated conference-hotel facilities. Believe me, when considering where to host a conference, how your attendees are going to get to it is a major factor.

The Pontchartrain is far too small to serve as the typical conference hotel. Even if the property was renovated and achieved a room-night capacity that generated a profit for an owner, there would never be significant usage of a walkway. Accordingly, there is no chance that there could ever be a positive return on the investment required for the costs associated with the construction of an enclosed walkway from that property to Cobo Center.

As for the building being ugly, well, many would disagree. It's not a masterpiece of modernism, but it certainly successfully evokes the style and the age in which it was built. It projects nothing other than its 1960's intent to break from the traditional. Unlike so many of today's newly constructed downtown hotels, the Pontchartrain looks like a hotel, rather than a bland office building. Make no mistake, that's what we would get with a new building. Room rates in Detroit would never justify the costs needed to support any kind of architectural excellence.

**Islandman** · February-10-12, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

"Charlotte is very interesting. They have a problem. They have, it’s the over street mall which is essentially a shopping corridor, and it joins by second level walkways with other stores and whatnot. Street tracking is very successful. But they do have a problem, and this is what happens when you go to a second level hood. What are you going to do to your street level? When you start pulling your people up on that second level, what are you going to do to your ground level?" http://archives.nbclearn.com/portal/...?cuecard=44993

That "mall" is always packed to the gills. There are restaurants, shops, a post office, sitting areas, banks, etc. It is very well done. Tryon Street, the ground level in this case, is just fine. It is also chock full of the above, and very walkable. They also regularly shut down Tryon for many events year round. Even when it's not shut down, they used to have events like Live at 5, where pretty much everyone that worked downtown hangs out on Thursdays for a happy that has to be seen to be believed. Then you have the farmer's market and the food trucks.

This author has absolutely no clue if he's using downtown Charlotte as an argument.

**pfb53** · February-10-12, 12:35 PM

Downtown Minneapolis has used skyways for decades. There is retail on the skyways and at street level. People like them with the heavy winter climate [[except this year). With Detroit's similar climate, it would seem that skyways would be a benefit, especially from hotels to the convention center.

**401don** · February-10-12, 12:42 PM

[QUOTE=gnome;302905]In my opinion:

- The outdoor pool is maybe the worse place to swim in North America as it has all the charm of a mobile dunk tank set up in a WalMart parking lot.

The outdoor pool disappeared and was replaced with a small indoor one during the last renovation which means it was probably used about twice before the hotel closed.

**DetroitPlanner** · February-10-12, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by pfb53

Downtown Minneapolis has used skyways for decades. There is retail on the skyways and at street level. People like them with the heavy winter climate [[except this year). With Detroit's similar climate, it would seem that skyways would be a benefit, especially from hotels to the convention center.

MPS is much colder climate than DTW. I went there a few years back the week after Halloween and was greeted with 14 f weather! I asked several people if this was unusually cold, and the concensus was not really.

**gnome** · February-10-12, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

The outdoor pool disappeared and was replaced with a small indoor one during the last renovation which means it was probably used about twice before the hotel closed.

Thanks for clearing up my failing memory.

**Hypestyles** · February-10-12, 03:16 PM

... how much would it take to convert the building into apartments?

**softailrider** · February-10-12, 07:24 PM

[QUOTE=401don;302911]

Originally Posted by gnome

In my opinion:

- The outdoor pool is maybe the worse place to swim in North America as it has all the charm of a mobile dunk tank set up in a WalMart parking lot.

The outdoor pool disappeared and was replaced with a small indoor one during the last renovation which means it was probably used about twice before the hotel closed.

It was replaced with a very nice indoor pool setup with exercise facilities. That was the only part of that renovation that I was sort-of impressed with.

From what I understand, that hotel was busy most weekends. It seemed to be popular with partying young adults.