Why Pay Detroit property Taxes, I Ask?

**SWMAP** · February-06-12, 10:26 AM

This article in today's Detroit News makes clear that Detroit's future is in the hands of people who have just thrown up their hands:

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...text|FRONTPAGE

Bottom line: if you live in a house, don't take care of it, patch up the roof with a tarp, fix old cars in the driveway and don't pay the taxes for three years you wiil get asked PERSONALLY to pay $500 for the property and promise to start paying the property taxes.

Perhaps you will agree and come up with the $500 and make a lacklustre promise that you can't or won't keep - and get another three years for that $500.
Or perhaps you don't agree or you ask for a "payment plan" and don't meet the terms. You absolutely know that County and City officials that valued your house at $500 won't go after you and evict you. After all, it would cost more than that to hire a bail bondsman and get the court orders.

So you might as well start stealing utilities [[if you already aren't) because, after all, why pay more for utilities than you would p[ay for the house and property itself? And, hey! If you run it down far enough, you can always move on and squat another property and repeat the scam.

And if you are a slumlord - you find some way to get around this [[nobody's really watching or caring after all) and you get to keep your property for $500 and get rent too!

**belleislerunner** · February-06-12, 10:40 AM

You're not allowed to rant until you provide a solution.

The city tried to sell the homes. No one would buy them.

What alternative do you propose?

**Detroitnerd** · February-06-12, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by belleislerunner

You're not allowed to rant until you provide a solution.

The city tried to sell the homes. No one would buy them.

What alternative do you propose?

Summary execution of those who say you're not allowed to rant until you provide a solution...

**SWMAP** · February-06-12, 11:09 AM

Well, Belleisle - not sure who put you in charge here as the moderator telling people what they aren't allowed to do/say/write - but my solution might be to just join the crowd not paying property taxes. No one seems to care or have a real plan. They are just having a fire sale and advertising it.

**sprucehaus** · February-06-12, 11:19 AM

hell i think this is a great idea, almost considering finding a house to squat in.

**belleislerunner** · February-06-12, 11:20 AM

haha. My point was everyone is entitled to have a position [[you can be against someone paying their property taxes, or against raising taxes to pay for roads or whatever the casue du jour may be) - but until there's a new solution proposed that fixes the problem - you still have the same problem and it's just ranting.

**mwilbert** · February-06-12, 11:35 AM

If no one wants to buy a house for $500, then arguably it isn't worth more than $500, and even in Detroit the property taxes should be less than $25/year. If your house isn't worth $500, I would suggest that not paying your property taxes makes a lot of sense.

The problem here isn't really people not paying their taxes, it is that there is too much property in Detroit that is nearly worthless, so the appropriate level of tax is very low, and there is an assessment process that doesn't reflect reality, which leads to people ignoring it, and leaves the city with no plausible sanction.

**Detroitnerd** · February-06-12, 11:38 AM

Of all the sentimental errors that reign and rage in this incomparable Republic, the worst is that which confuses the function of criticism, whether aesthetic, political or social, with the function of reform. Almost invariably it takes the form of a protest: “The fellow condemns without offering anything better. Why tear down without building up?” So snivel the sweet ones: so wags the national tongue. The messianic delusion becomes a sort of universal murrain. It is impossible to get an audience for an idea that is not "constructive"—i.e., that is not glib, and uplifting, and full of hope, and hence capable of tickling the emotions by leaping the intermediate barrier of intelligence. --H.L. Mencken

**iheartthed** · February-06-12, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

The problem here isn't really people not paying their taxes, it is that there is too much property in Detroit that is nearly worthless, so the appropriate level of tax is very low, and there is an assessment process that doesn't reflect reality, which leads to people ignoring it, and leaves the city with no plausible sanction.

Yes, all of this.

**Bham1982** · February-06-12, 12:39 PM

Green Acres, at least in terms of architecture and aestethics, is a very attractive neighborhood.

If homes can't even be sold for $500 in Green Acres [[the same homes that would go for 300k-400k a few miles up Woodward, and in very high-tax jurisdictions), then the situation is borderline hopeless.

**mwilbert** · February-06-12, 12:46 PM

Green Acres, at least in terms of architecture and aestethics, is a very attractive neighborhood.

If homes can't even be sold for $500 in Green Acres [[the same homes that would go for 300k-400k a few miles up Woodward, and in very high-tax jurisdictions), then the situation is borderline hopeless.

You are correct. My guess is that this is a market failure--there are people who would pay more than $500 for the house, but they weren't at the auction for whatever reason, as certainly homes in the area are selling for much higher prices than that. It is also possible that people don't want to deal with buying an occupied house from someone other than the occupant. In my younger days when I looked at properties at auction, I had an aversion to those that would require me to evict people.

**313WX** · February-06-12, 01:38 PM

Many Detroiters HAVE stop paying their property taxes, and are weighing their options to leave the city.

And if the powers that be don't think the austerity measures they're proposing won't simply accelerate their flight, then they're crazy.

**mwilbert** · February-06-12, 02:39 PM

And if the powers that be don't think the austerity measures they're proposing won't simply accelerate their flight, then they're crazy.

It probably isn't a big problem for the city if people who don't pay their taxes leave.

**313WX** · February-06-12, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

It probably isn't a big problem for the city if people who don't pay their taxes leave.

It is a big problem however if Detroit still wants reasonable representation at the state and federal level, at least more representation than some place like Grand Rapids.

**finster** · February-06-12, 06:38 PM

I seem to remember a similar article in the news or freep a month or two ago. Similar stories to these and also had a landlord who owed tens of thousands of taxes on a decent sized and almost fully occupied apartment building. Didn't pay shit to the city for years and bought his own building back for the 500 bucks! The tenants were awfully surprised to learn from the reporter that they could have owned the whole damn building for less than they payed a slumlord in monthly rent. Of course the owner cried poverty and crap but do you think he would've paid even a token amount in those minimum of three years. Hell no!

**finster** · February-06-12, 06:49 PM

Continued - [[sorry, I have been having trouble posting since joining so now I copy and paste my diatribes in case they disappear or won't post).

This is part of the reason the city has no tax base and why there is no money for new ambulances, etc.

I am constantly told by republicans in the media that the high tax rate in Detroit is what drives people away or keeps them from moving to the city. But even before the housing bust most of the houses I lived in in the city were valued so cheaply that the tax bills were miniscule. Sixty some mills on a $5000 house [[taxable value - $2500) ain't that awful terrible if you know what I mean. [[I realize that in the high class neighborhoods this could be a major factor, however.)

Now that things are so messed up and the cats out of the bag many won't pay even if they can
so the 7% of revenue Detroit gets from property taxes will probably be much, much less.

I'm sure most suburbs get the majority of their budget from property taxes so you can see the problem for Detroit.

End rant.

**ronaldj** · February-07-12, 01:49 AM

People do want to pay property taxes. Just wanting to pay appropriate rates.

Inherited a beautiful old home but taxes were 8,900 per annum????

Worked with the city for an adjusted rate and the city worked with us. Took a while but the city did their job and we did ours. We have a tax rate we believe fair and have invested in our home big time.As far as city services we have no particular complaints. Really love our house, our neighborhood and city.

Could things be better, of course! Have watched a vacant home across the street go from being viable five years ago to a complete disaster. Now just wish it gets demolished. Would much rather have seen it go for a song and occupied.

Old enough to remember folks who bought properties under a homestead act years ago for $1. Those homes are still owned and maintained. Way better to have homes occupied then not.

**softailrider** · February-07-12, 02:40 AM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

If no one wants to buy a house for $500, then arguably it isn't worth more than $500, and even in Detroit the property taxes should be less than $25/year. If your house isn't worth $500, I would suggest that not paying your property taxes makes a lot of sense.

The problem here isn't really people not paying their taxes, it is that there is too much property in Detroit that is nearly worthless, so the appropriate level of tax is very low, and there is an assessment process that doesn't reflect reality, which leads to people ignoring it, and leaves the city with no plausible sanction.

Totally agree with that last paragraph. A complete catch-22 situation.

**drjeff** · February-07-12, 12:19 PM

People who do not pay their property taxes should also be denied any city services. No more trash pickup, police services, etc. unless they pay for it. Why should they get a free ride?

**SWMAP** · February-07-12, 12:50 PM

We have a tax rate we believe fair and have invested in our home big time

Yes, but when are going to pay your 2010 property taxes?

**313WX** · February-07-12, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by drjeff

People who do not pay their property taxes should also be denied any city services. No more trash pickup, police services, etc. unless they pay for it. Why should they get a free ride?

Depending on one's perspective, the people who pay taxes are being denied services anyway, especially when it's common for the police, fire and ambulance to not show up on time [[if at all) and for garbage pickup to not occur until after sunset [[which has been happening lately).

**drjeff** · February-07-12, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Depending on one's perspective, the people who pay taxes are being denied services anyway, especially when it's common for the police, fire and ambulance to not show up on time [[if at all) and for garbage pickup to not occur until after sunset [[which has been happening lately).

This is sort of my point. The people who are paying for services should get them, and those who aren't should get diddly, which would make service for the real taxpayers better.

**313WX** · February-07-12, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by drjeff

This is sort of my point. The people who are paying for services should get them, and those who aren't should get diddly, which would make service for the real taxpayers better.

So using your logic, poor kids shouldn't receive an education, since their parents are too lazy to get a job to pay taxes.

**iheartthed** · February-07-12, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

So using your logic, poor kids shouldn't receive an education

Or suburban visitors to Tigers games shouldn't receive police protection...

**SWMAP** · February-07-12, 02:42 PM

Well, any huiman person would be entitled to police protection in the common areas of the City - paid for by resident taxpayers just as we Detroit residents might use services paid for commonly by other tax-payers when we leave Detroit, but perhaps, if you weren't a tax-payer a screen would come up when/if you call 911 to come to your property and note that your request should maybe be moved down because you are stiffing the city on property taxes - or your landlord is. And if you have to sue someone later - sue the landlord.

As I write this, I am having an internal debate about leaving the City after a lifetime as a taxpayer because I am somewhat worried that if I were to have a heart attack or a stroke [[as my parents did and a sibling) and I could not get emergency medical service - even though I am within three miles of two world-famous cardiac and stroke centers. I saw that it happened last week. In my case, i live alone so I would have no family members to put me in a car.