Considering moving to Detroit : Advice Needed

**Maria** · January-24-12, 07:50 PM

Hello everyone,

I am new to this forum so please have patience with me.

I am a recent college graduate, I run a produce stand business and I am looking to move to Detroit.

I have never lived in a big city before but Detroit has always had this beautifully decayed appeal to me. What should a small town lady expect when moving to a big city and where would be a good location to purchase land?

I need at least an acre but five acres would be more ideal for expansion. I would need land that is zoned for farming.

Advice is sincerely appreciated.

Please feel free to ask questions if you need more specific information from me to better recommend something.

Thank you,

~ Maria

P.S. - I am logging out for the night but I will be back tomorrow. I just didn't want anyone expecting a reply right away to be left hanging.

**professorscott** · January-24-12, 07:56 PM

Maria poses an interesting question. Is there any land whatever in Detroit that is zoned for agriculture, or zoned in such a way as to permit it?

Another good question: do parcels of the required size exist?

I'll let my fellow bloggers attack the "what to expect" part of the inquiry

**black gold man** · January-24-12, 07:59 PM

Call some of the people that already farm Detroit.
http://www.cskdetroit.org/EWG/

http://www.google.com/search?q=Detro...w=1024&bih=629

**Dexlin** · January-25-12, 06:34 AM

Originally Posted by professorscott

Maria poses an interesting question. Is there any land whatever in Detroit that is zoned for agriculture, or zoned in such a way as to permit it?

Another good question: do parcels of the required size exist?

I'll let my fellow bloggers attack the "what to expect" part of the inquiry

No, the Farm Bureau is still dicking around [[i.e. opposing behind the scenes) to prevent the Right to Farm Act from allowing Detroit to zone agriculturally, and the Detroit City Council remains something less than interested in really tackling this and pre-emptively doing it. I guess if you technically call it a garden you can get away with it, but I'm not sure how much can be sold commercially if at all, if that is her plan.

On the second question, I wouldn't know. There are certainly enough empty parcels to combine to get that kind of acreage, but that'd obviously be pretty cost prohibitive given the speculation that'd take place.

One more pointer, and I say it to everyone, if you're coming to Detroit mostly out of the "romance" for it, you're in for a rude surprise. For the love of everything good and holy DO YOUR RESEARCH, look before you leap. We don't need any new spurned and wronged "former Detroiters" out of this, which is what all too often happens. The city can eat up even the most committed born-and-bred Detroiters, let alone naive folks coming in because of its perceived morbid beauty. Build your networks before you get here or at least as soon as you hit the soil running. You need friends [[read: eyes on the ground) anywhere you move, but you really need them in a city like Detroit.

Good luck!

**Gannon** · January-25-12, 07:11 AM

Maria,

Indeed there are folks already growing food and selling it commercially...but they either setup small farmer's markets around town, or use the historic Eastern Market. This famous place is managed by a visionary fellow, Dan Carmody, who created a section within one of the sheds specifically for locally-grown produce and products.

I like the cart idea, but that is wrought with its own collection of silly-ass city regulations designed to keep the cart marketplace a virtual monopoly. This may be changing, as evidenced by the persistence of one woman pursuing her dream of a mobile restaurant. I don't have specifics on this, but someone will chime in and provide a link to the story.

How far away do you live now? If you decide to travel and investigate the town...which should be obviously a huge part of your due diligence...more than a few of us will help you out, introducing you to some of the movers and shakers in the urban agriculture movement.

Welcome to Detroit...you seem already infected by our Spirit.

Sincerely,
John

**night-timer** · January-25-12, 09:31 AM

Can the OP give more reasons for moving her business to Detroit? That is what's known as a 'commercial decision', so what are your reasons?

Urban blight and farmland are an odd mix, even if Detroit has areas of 'urban prairie'. I'm not knocking you or your ideas, just wanting more info...

**Bham1982** · January-25-12, 10:25 AM

I don't think Detroit has agricultural zoning, the land would probably have to be remediated, and five contiguous acres would be difficult.

Why would you first think of Detroit when it comes to farming? That's like first thinking of the Thumb when it comes to urban amenities. Seems counterintuitive to me.

**Wheels** · January-25-12, 10:57 AM

It is true there are vast areas of vacant "prairie" like property in Detroit.

However even if you were able to acquire that much property wouldn't the infrastructure of water, sewer, gas lines etc. make farming large scale impractical?

**GoGrixdale** · January-25-12, 11:10 AM

I second Dexlin's caution against romanticizing what you'll find here. The tear jerking stories of a lack of produce for the poor "urban" children of Detroit are misleading at best. The truth is those that desire vegetables dont have to work too hard or travel hundres of miles to get them. [[I've not missed a salad for want yet). I would argue that vegetables are not on some family menues more by choice than scarcity.

I personally know too many "Hot Pocket" moms who place nutrition and quality behind ease of preperation.

In addition you'll inevitably face the stigma of produce grown inside of the "dirty city". A small number of consumers will see this as a positive but the entrenched thinkers [[read majority) will see it as "probably contaminated", raised beds or not.

Is there a market for inner-city produce? Yes, with plenty of room for growth and expansion. Thing is, you'll have to attack it eyes wide open.

Pessimism aside, you could probably find 1-5 acres here: http://tinyurl.com/7mgmxf2

**Modusvivendi** · January-25-12, 11:10 AM

Will your produce stand have bullet-proof glass?

All joking aside, as for what you can expect in Detroit, I would refer you to a thread where a Swedish guy was asking for advice on moving to Detroit with his family. Quite a few people chimed in.

http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...ghlight=sweden

**kryptonite** · January-25-12, 11:47 AM

Maria, I enjoyed your post. Please consider some of the replies, including the links to people that are currently gardening in the city. I am a gardener and have a vegetable garden at my home in the suburbs.

But years ago when I lived in Detroit my neighborhood experimented with a 'community garden' on some vacant lots where homes had been demolished.

Our experiment was fun for the gardeners, but as the vegetables became ready to pick, all of our vegetables were stolen, assumedly by neighbors in the area. The theft was total, almost no vegetables were ever picked by the volunteers. The project was never revived after the first year, all of the gardeners were discouraged by the theft.

**Gannon** · January-25-12, 12:08 PM

Their mistake.

I like Mark Covington's attitude best...he grows the stuff for everyone in the neighborhood, even better when they pick it themselves!

But for those who need to have profitable production out of their land, or simply want to keep to themselves everything they grow...then NEED to live on or adjacent to the garden/urban farm.

Get a plinking .22 long-gun to take out the critters, too, then. What the scavenging people don't get, the bunnies and squirrels are surely eyeing. There are all sorts of 'pests' which have to be dealt with while growing your own food!

With our garden, I was amazed at how the animals were able to get to the tomatoes 'just' before they were ripe. I'm not a willing killer, so I've devised some ways to mitigate those losses next year without wasting any bullets [[plus, I'm sure the GPP police wouldn't approve!). My understanding is they go after the tomatoes for the moisture, I've had a few seasoned gardeners tell me to leave some bowls of water around the perimeter to quench their thirst before they tear into another veggie. There are all sorts of old-school tricks...which is why the networking is so important. Can't let that wisdom go to the grave, too much has already been lost.

I think the solution is to plant all of the city's unused land...let's get a HUGE over-abundance of Mother Nature's providence...and show everyone what a cornucopia truly is! Let people trade labor for their fresh produce. Of course, that might make a wee dent in the profits of a veggie cart owner...

Cheers

**Maria** · January-25-12, 12:16 PM

I am currently located in Utah. My desire to move to Detroit is not a business decision but one of personal interest. I am seeking to move away from Utah as it does not fit my style. I have lived previously in Florida as well as Texas and if I wanted to move my business on the basis of turning a commercial profit it would be alot easier to do so in the southern states. I am considering Detroit because it holds many interests for me. I am a history buff as well as partially Native American and there are quite a few resources available in Detroit that just can't be found anywhere else when it comes to Native American history.

My business consists of selling various fruits and vegetables around town. I am more than happy to play the run around permit game if I have to since this is a hobby for me that I am looking to turn into a bigger business but the land to branch out simply is not available around my current neighborhood.

If land is available in Detroit I am happy to do clearance work to bring the land up to caliber so long as it doesn't require contamination clean up or the removal of thick groves of trees and what not. I use raised beds and greenhouses for my produce to ensure the quality of what I grow so the quality of the soil is not really an issue unless there are chemicals or viruses that can infect raised beds.

Around here what I sell varies from season to season and I often cater to more refined tastes with various hard to find vegetables like chinese greens as well as foods that are difficult to get at a decent price like fresh berries.

Since the climate in Detroit is much colder I would like to try my hand at Honeycrisp apples, fresh greens and fresh berries until I can determine what will grow well in the area and what the local residents are interested in.

I make no assumptions about Detroit being a city of romance. If anything it is blighted, crime ridden and corrupt. However I only worry about the things I have control over and little old me isn't able to fix all of Detroit's problems with a magical victory garden from a Cinderella fairy tale and I don't intend to. If I can't find a good location or if things don't work out I will simply stay with what I know in the south.

**Maria** · January-25-12, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Wheels

It is true there are vast areas of vacant "prairie" like property in Detroit.

However even if you were able to acquire that much property wouldn't the infrastructure of water, sewer, gas lines etc. make farming large scale impractical?

Those are indeed serious issues to consider. If I can locate a place where I can hook up to the water and sewer grid that would be excellent since I have a tumbleweed mobile home that I have no problem staying in but I am not opposed to renting a place. These are obstacles that can be gotten around but I can't really put anything in stone until I find a place I would be interested in. I need to take a look at the links some fellow posters have provided and such.

**hamtown mike** · January-25-12, 12:27 PM

Maria,

I wish you nothing but the best of luck!

I and a group of Hamtramcker's are about to embark on a similar project on about 1/2 an acre this spring. Thankfully profit is not one of our objectives-Frankly it will be a miracle if we break even. Our aim is a community and emotional profit.

Shameless plug- Like Hamtown Farms on Facebook to learn more.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hamto...07254785975360

**Maria** · January-25-12, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by hamtown mike

Maria,

I wish you nothing but the best of luck!

I and a group of Hamtramcker's are about to embark on a similar project on about 1/2 an acre this spring. Thankfully profit is not one of our objectives-Frankly it will be a miracle if we break even. Our aim is a community and emotional profit.

Shameless plug- Like Hamtown Farms on Facebook to learn more.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hamto...07254785975360

Congrats!

Please let me know how your situation works out. It is always nice to see others doing well.

In addressing another post I would like to mention that I have no problem joining a local farmers market, flea market or some other group.

**GoGrixdale** · January-25-12, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by Maria

I make no assumptions about Detroit being a city of romance. If anything it is blighted, crime ridden and corrupt. However I only worry about the things I have control over and little old me isn't able to fix all of Detroit's problems with a magical victory garden from a Cinderella fairy tale and I don't intend to. If I can't find a good location or if things don't work out I will simply stay with what I know in the south.

..you sound like the Detroiter most of us aspire to be.

**Maria** · January-25-12, 12:37 PM

I do have a new question after reading a few other posts. How much are taxes in Detroit?

**Gannon** · January-25-12, 12:38 PM

There are some powerful Native sites in the area...not sure if anyone is doing it, but I'd LOVE to bring ceremony to Fort Wayne and Belle Isle.

For a few reasons, I think this'll work. If you grow 'weird' enough veggies, the locals won't know what they are and will likely leave 'em alone! Do a small apple orchard, and then keep BEES! They are not unlike dobermans and pit bulls to some city folk, LOL.

Cheers!

**j to the jeremy** · January-25-12, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

I don't think Detroit has agricultural zoning, the land would probably have to be remediated, and five contiguous acres would be difficult.

Why would you first think of Detroit when it comes to farming? That's like first thinking of the Thumb when it comes to urban amenities. Seems counterintuitive to me.

If you live out of state and have been reading the national press, you probably have the idea that the OP does.

**hamtown mike** · January-25-12, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by Maria

I do have a new question after reading a few other posts. How much are taxes in Detroit?

The tax situation could be a mess. You could get tangled in a battle having to prove that there are no taxable structures on vacant property. Be sure to work with a good realtor.

**Gannon** · January-25-12, 01:01 PM

Seems the trend is to squat and hope the mowers don't chop everything down.

If you buy a lot, that'll get your water and electrical hookup...and lower taxes than with a structure on it. I'd live in the trailer until somebody told you to stop.

Then I'd build a garage first...with a very discreet basement cellar!

Cheers

**DetroitScooter** · January-25-12, 01:15 PM

Please come visit first, Maria. It would be much easier to experience the reality of Detroit from "ground level" than having helpful folks try to describe it to you. Together we can make it very inexpensive a trip for you. Think about it.

I think that your plan might be doable, but to make an informed decision, you need to see this place [[or the close-in suburbs, which may be an even better option for you). Good luck!

**Maria** · January-25-12, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by Gannon

Seems the trend is to squat and hope the mowers don't chop everything down.

If you buy a lot, that'll get your water and electrical hookup...and lower taxes than with a structure on it. I'd live in the trailer until somebody told you to stop.

Then I'd build a garage first...with a very discreet basement cellar!

Cheers

I don't go for the whole squatting thing. I am a citizen of this country and since I live and prosper here it is only fair that I pay my fair share of taxes like everyone else. I do however have a tumbleweed home.

**Maria** · January-25-12, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by Gannon

There are some powerful Native sites in the area...not sure if anyone is doing it, but I'd LOVE to bring ceremony to Fort Wayne and Belle Isle.

For a few reasons, I think this'll work. If you grow 'weird' enough veggies, the locals won't know what they are and will likely leave 'em alone! Do a small apple orchard, and then keep BEES! They are not unlike dobermans and pit bulls to some city folk, LOL.

Cheers!

I have an interest in bee keeping but I cannot act upon it as I am highly allergic to bee stings.