Detroit ranked among America's top 10 downtowns

**OriginalG313** · January-18-12, 08:48 AM

"Known around the country and even the globe as a city full of grit, crime, corruption and financial problems, Detroit is finally making a top 10 list that looks beyond that. According to TopTenz.net Detroit has been ranked among America's best downtowns, coming in at number 9.
The site credits the beautiful architecture from the pre-World War II era, the downtown ballparks, along with excellent restaurants."

Read more: http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region/...#ixzz1jokJiMXd

**iheartthed** · January-18-12, 09:22 AM

I agree with that list except for two things: Miami should be swapped out of the list for Pittsburgh and Chicago [[perhaps SF too) should be ranked ahead of DC.

**Bham1982** · January-18-12, 09:32 AM

Miami has a terrible downtown. Even Detroit has a much, much better downtown.

Do they mean Miami Beach?

DC is a weird one. Certainly one could rank it at #2 in terms of being the second largest and most important downtown.

But it isn't super vibrant or interesting, IMO. I think I would rank San Francisco second, then DC or Chicago, with Philly and Boston close behind.

Detroit is improved, but not Top 10 material, IMO. It's still trailing Minneapolis, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, LA, Portland, Denver, San Diego, New Orleans, none of which are on this list.

Houston, Dallas and Atlanta are pretty weak. Phoenix has to be, by far, the worst big city downtown. What a joke.

**313WX** · January-18-12, 09:40 AM

Hmmm, yeah, all you have to do is look at the criteria for the top 10 downtowns and this list no longer deserves to be taken seriously.

**Brian1979** · January-18-12, 09:58 AM

Chicago has a better downtown than D.C. does, as a matter of fact I'd rank Chicago 2nd behind NYC. I may have a bit of bias with Chicago but there is no way that D.C.'s downtown is better than Chicago's. I've spent time in both cities, Chicago much more than D.C. but there is simply no way that's a nicer downtown than Chicago.

**Bham1982** · January-18-12, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by Brian1979

Chicago has a better downtown than D.C. does, as a matter of fact I'd rank Chicago 2nd behind NYC. I may have a bit of bias with Chicago but there is no way that D.C.'s downtown is better than Chicago's. I've spent time in both cities, Chicago much more than D.C. but there is simply no way that's a nicer downtown than Chicago.

"Nice" is subjective, of course.

DC's downtown is almost certainly bigger and more important than Chicago's downtown, but I would probably agree that Chicago's is "better" in most respects.

**Gistok** · January-18-12, 10:06 AM

I think that anyone who has ever been to Paris understands why D.C. got the vote it did. Not everything in a beautiful downtown is measured by height, and London and Frankfurt win over Paris in the height department... but Paris wins hands down as a livable beautiful city. Ditto for Washington over Chicago.

**rb336** · January-18-12, 10:15 AM

I am interested in where they put the boundaries for "downtown." In New York, they cede downtown for midtown, which more or less runs from 38th to central park, although a lot of people would include the garment district, chelsea and murray hill as part of it too. Downtown is battery park & the financial district. Not the liveliest place after dark, but I like it, particularly the older areas with cobblestone streets.

I would have put San Antonio on the list. My top 5:

Chicago
the REAL downtown NYC
Philly
San Antonio
Portland

**Bham1982** · January-18-12, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by rb336

I am interested in where they put the boundaries for "downtown." In New York, they cede downtown for midtown, which more or less runs from 38th to central park, although a lot of people would include the garment district, chelsea and murray hill as part of it too. Downtown is battery park & the financial district. Not the liveliest place after dark, but I like it, particularly the older areas with cobblestone streets.

Unless they're clueless, I would assume they mean Core Manhattan when they say "downtown NY". If they only refer to one Manhattan neighborhood, it should be Midtown.

"Downtown" in the NY context, has nothing to do with "downtown" in the general U.S. context. It a geographic indicator in NY, and just means the Manhattan neighborhoods below 14th street.

**iheartthed** · January-18-12, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

I think that anyone who has ever been to Paris understands why D.C. got the vote it did. Not everything in a beautiful downtown is measured by height, and London and Frankfurt win over Paris in the height department... but Paris wins hands down as a livable beautiful city. Ditto for Washington over Chicago.

I've been to Paris and I still think Chicago wins over DC. DC is top 5 for sure, but I think downtown Chicago is a little better oriented for the human scale. Walking around DC you can feel that it was designed from a top down perspective, unlike Chicago, Paris and even downtown Detroit.

**DetroitPlanner** · January-18-12, 10:51 AM

Comparing downtowns is like comparing apples and oranges. Some work, some don't. Some work for a given reason, others will fail for that same reason. Look at the number of cities that have failed Festival Market places, but Fanieul Hall [[the original) in Boston still works.

Both Chicago and DC have great environments. Why nit-pick?

**ResurgetCineribus** · January-18-12, 10:55 AM

I totally disagree with that list. I'd have put them in this order based on coolness, size, walkability, deliciousness, and Grundge scene:

Portland
Albania
Nachos with cheese
Albuquerque
Seattle during the 90s
Plain nachos
Present day Seattle

**Modusvivendi** · January-18-12, 11:22 AM

Good to see Detroit getting some positive coverage for a change. I have no idea what Miami is doing on this list though. Portland, Oregon should be on the list intead of Miami. I can't speak for Milwaukee, but I would put New Orleans or Charlottesville, Virginia in also.

**DetroitPlanner** · January-18-12, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by ResurgetCineribus

I totally disagree with that list. I'd have put them in this order based on coolness, size, walkability, deliciousness, and Grundge scene:

Portland
Albania
Nachos with cheese
Albuquerque
Seattle during the 90s
Plain nachos
Present day Seattle

I agree entirely and would like to add the following:

Saginaw
Twinkies
Canada
Troll Dolls

**Bham1982** · January-18-12, 11:53 AM

Saginaw, BTW, has to be the worst downtown in MI. I drove through there recently during the height of evening "rush hour", and it felt post-apocolyptic in its emptiness. Even Flint looks big and busy compared to Saginaw.

**sycloneman** · January-18-12, 12:10 PM

Depends on which side of Saginaw you were on! Although the near West side isn't much better than the East side anymore.

**HistoryNotHisStory** · January-18-12, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Miami has a terrible downtown. Even Detroit has a much, much better downtown.

Do they mean Miami Beach?

DC is a weird one. Certainly one could rank it at #2 in terms of being the second largest and most important downtown.

But it isn't super vibrant or interesting, IMO. I think I would rank San Francisco second, then DC or Chicago, with Philly and Boston close behind.

Detroit is improved, but not Top 10 material, IMO. It's still trailing Minneapolis, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, LA, Portland, Denver, San Diego, New Orleans, none of which are on this list.

Houston, Dallas and Atlanta are pretty weak. Phoenix has to be, by far, the worst big city downtown. What a joke.

Detroit does not trail Minneapolis.

**noise** · January-18-12, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by HistoryNotHisStory

Detroit does not trail Minneapolis.

For my tastes, I'd prefer Minneapolis. I'd move Milwaukee up way past Detroit, as well.

**Bham1982** · January-18-12, 01:16 PM

Minneapolis still has a big flagship downtown department store, a bustling retail street, one of the largest universities in the U.S., and a number of newer highrises.

Imagine Detroit with Hudson's still open and Woodward with some semblance of retail. Then take UofM or MSU and stick it adjacent to downtown. That's Minneapolis.

**bailey** · January-18-12, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Minneapolis still has a big flagship downtown department store, a bustling retail street, one of the largest universities in the U.S., and a number of newer highrises.

Imagine Detroit with Hudson's still open and Woodward with some semblance of retail. Then take UofM or MSU and stick it adjacent to downtown. That's Minneapolis.

The sad thing is that WSU has nearly the same enrollment numbers [[32,000) as MSU and UM. I would just amend your statement to "imagine a school the size of MSU or UM adjacent to downtown AND have it be one that isnt primarily a commuter school."

**drjeff** · January-18-12, 01:24 PM

The best thing Minneapolis has going for it is the skywalk. Other than that downtown isn't really interesting. The University is across the river from the main part of the city.

**noise** · January-18-12, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

The sad thing is that WSU has nearly the same enrollment numbers [[32,000) as MSU and UM. I would just amend your statement to "imagine a school the size of MSU or UM adjacent to downtown AND have it be one that isnt primarily a commuter school."

MSU is at about 48,000. Much larger than WSU. I believe MSU & UM are top 10 in enrollment [[or close to it) and WSU is top 30.

**canuck** · January-18-12, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Minneapolis still has a big flagship downtown department store, a bustling retail street, one of the largest universities in the U.S., and a number of newer highrises.

Imagine Detroit with Hudson's still open and Woodward with some semblance of retail. Then take UofM or MSU and stick it adjacent to downtown. That's Minneapolis.

Detroit's downtown is a national treasure and despite the loss of some monumental buildings, it still rocks and is in a pretty good shape. Every major city has suffered architectural neglect and major losses, but Detroit has a breathtaking collection of historical skyscrapers that is appreciated worldwide.

Maybe another Hudson's is out of the picture but there are malls that can do a good job of replicating the atmosphere of great department stores. Most major flagship stores have an ersatz boutique environment to offset the competition from smaller stores and malls anyway.

I think it is plausible that one day another university campus of either UofM or MSU or that a bigger WSU could help downtown Detroit. There is a lot to be gained from the presence of a large number of students and faculty. With the cost of real estate in downtown Detroit, a major push to attract faculties in the city would be another shot in the arm. How about an alliance of two or three universities that would help the city from a stronger presence. Is that possible?

bartock · January-18-12, 02:27 PM

WSU has done a good job in the past 10-15 years in trying to create a "campus" and campus housing, and has great post-graduate programs. It is a large presence in the downtown/midtown area, and continues to grow with this eds/meds thing.

**Brian1979** · January-18-12, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Saginaw, BTW, has to be the worst downtown in MI. I drove through there recently during the height of evening "rush hour", and it felt post-apocolyptic in its emptiness. Even Flint looks big and busy compared to Saginaw.

Saginaw is one of the worst cities in Michigan, it's a pretty dead place and the people that remain simply can't leave. I can't wait to get out of this place. Downtown Saginaw has a small strip along Washington and Genesee and that's about it.