Guantanamo Bay

[maxx]

We still have a prison there because Congress refuses to appropriate money to transfer the remaining prisoners elsewhere. This is strrange right now since Congress claims to be concerned about the budget and Gitmo costs $800k/prisoner .

http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/20...en-years-later

from wiki:
In October 2007 Colonel Davis resigned from his position as Chief Prosecutor and became the Head of the Air Force Judiciary stating that "The guy who said waterboarding is A-okay I was not going to take orders from. I quit", hours after he was informed that controversial General Counsel William Haynes would be his superior.^[16] He also charged that there was meddling from the Pentagon, and claimed this presented serious conflicts of interest:^[17]
Davis states that he was denied an end-of-tour medal for his two years at Guantanamo because he resigned and later spoke out about problems in the Pentagon's Office of Military Commissions. Davis stated about the medal denial, "I tell the truth, and I get labeled as having served dishonorably. I'm very concerned about the chilling effect . . . on the process".^[18]
Davis has frequently spoken out against the Commissions, since his resignation.

[There are 171 remaining detainees of whom 89 have been cleared of all charges by several
security groups. But still they sit in Gitmo.]

[Papasito]

“Obama’s original plan is in shambles,” said David Remes, an attorney for 14 Yemeni detainees at Guantanamo. “From the outside it appears to be in shambles because he was never sufficiently committed to the success of his own plan, and as a result, Republicans were able to mobilize to turn the issue against him, and he provided the congressional Democrats no leadership.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories...#ixzz1jkMMAEqB

"If Elected, I will Close GITMO"
- Barack Obama

[maxx]

And where was he going to send the prisoners who remain? And with what money since the House appropriates all monies.

You can't find many if any instances when Reps. worked with the Pres. without a drawn-out fight. The Reps. in the Senate have filibustered just about every bill that comes to it. Reps. wouldn't even pass the debt ceiling bill even though they did it 18 times for Reagan. That's the guy who raised taxes quite a few times, remember?

[Relayer76]

They should locate the prisoners in the US. In case anyone has not noticed, Guatanamo Bay is in Cuba - a foreign country where the US has not business. While they are at it they should remove all military bases from all foreign countries - it would save a lot of money and reduce the highly negative attitude that the US has around the world.

[rb336]

"If Elected, I will Close GITMO"
- Barack Obama

He hasn't because the Republicans refuse to fund the moving of the last prisoners

[Occurrence]

If that's the case, why didn't Obama say "If the Republicans don't block my idea, I will close Guantanamo,"?

[firstandten]

If that's the case, why didn't Obama say "If the Republicans don't block my idea, I will close Guantanamo,"?

Thats not how you campaign. You say what your intentions are, but the reality is the fulfillment of campaign promises is largely what you can get thru congress. And we know this congress can't agree that 2 + 2 = 4

[oladub]

Thats not how you campaign. You say what your intentions are, but the reality is the fulfillment of campaign promises is largely what you can get thru congress. And we know this congress can't agree that 2 + 2 = 4

Why then didn't he do it in the first two years of his presidency when he had a Democratic Congress?

[Occurrence]

Making promises you can't fulfill doesn't seem like a good way to campaign either. At the very least say something like "I believe Guantonamo should be closed and I will make an effort to close it.". Don't tell people you are going to do something and then not do it. That makes people angry.

[firstandten]

Making promises you can't fulfill doesn't seem like a good way to campaign either. At the very least say something like "I believe Guantonamo should be closed and I will make an effort to close it.". Don't tell people you are going to do something and then not do it. That makes people angry.

He did, he signed an executive order for closing it. Unfortunately that is useless unless you can actually relocate the prisioners, our allies didn't want them. In some countries that we thought might take them they would have been tortured. And a lot of our congresspeople both Dems and Repubs got a case of the NIMBY's when it was tried to relocate them in the states.


The president miscalculated just how difficult it would be to close that facilty and he made a decision that he couldn't invest any more of his political capital that was already heading south fast with all the other things he was doing.

So thats why Gitmo is one of the few promises the president did end up breaking

[firstandten]

"If Elected, I will Close GITMO"
- Barack Obama

All presidents break campaign promises. You check Obama's record his has been pretty good considering the political climate.

[oladub]

He did, he signed an executive order for closing it.

Where did he get the power to close prisons by executive order? Why didn't he bring them home to US prisons unless the arrangement in Cuba would be illegal here?

[Occurrence]

Since when are we concerned with sending prisoners to prisons in other countries where they will be tortured? Weren't we waterboarding these people?

[firstandten]

Since when are we concerned with sending prisoners to prisons in other countries where they will be tortured? Weren't we waterboarding these people?

Its a pr nightmare to stop waterboarding prisonsers then send them to a country.. where they then get tortured

[firstandten]

Where did he get the power to close prisons by executive order? Why didn't he bring them home to US prisons unless the arrangement in Cuba would be illegal here?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_...tionFacilities


In this case I think he knew closing the prison would be difficult. He was getting bi-partisan opposition not only where to house the prisoners but even having the trials on US soil. Remember executive orders are effective if you don't have to appropriate funds to enforce that order and can be undone by law, by another president or congress not funding that order.

I believe it was a hail mary attempt to try to keep a campaign promise.

[rb336]

Where did he get the power to close prisons by executive order? Why didn't he bring them home to US prisons unless the arrangement in Cuba would be illegal here?

first off, as a military prison as CiC, he has authority to transfer anyone out of there he wants. congress can, as they have, refuse to fund the moves

[oladub]

first off, as a military prison as CiC, he has authority to transfer anyone out of there he wants. congress can, as they have, refuse to fund the moves

A president is the Commander in Chief of our military. As such, he controls our military sort of as a the generals' general. He can pull the troops out of Afghanistan if he so chooses but you are saying he doesn't have the ability to transfer POW's? In other wars, POW's were brought to the states. Why is this situation different? No one has explained why this wasn't done during the first two years of his administration when there was a friendly Democratic Congress to work with. I really don't know; are they still water boarding prisoners in Guantanamo?

[maxx]

A lot of Dems weren't that friendly. THey were bought just like the REps. The solution: Get big money out of politics. Amend the Constitution to nullify Citizens United. Urge your city council to pass a resolution to that effect.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...supreme-court/

[firstandten]

A president is the Commander in Chief of our military. As such, he controls our military sort of as a the generals' general. He can pull the troops out of Afghanistan if he so chooses but you are saying he doesn't have the ability to transfer POW's? In other wars, POW's were brought to the states. Why is this situation different? No one has explained why this wasn't done during the first two years of his administration when there was a friendly Democratic Congress to work with. I really don't know; are they still water boarding prisoners in Guantanamo?

I generally don't like to link to Wikipedia but this gives a background of what a mess the Gitmo situation was/is and it was not like the president could wave his hand and presto ! problem solved. Like everything else Bush left a convoluted mess at Gitmo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantan...detention_camp


To address your point of the friendly Dem congress. Yes he could count on the House[[however not with the Gitmo closing, remember he had bi-partisan opposition) but without 60 votes in the Senate Obama was subject to endless debate [[filibuster) and he only had 58/59 or so votes at his peak. So yes his first two years were friendly but only to a point.

[rb336]

but you are saying he doesn't have the ability to transfer POW's? In other wars, POW's were brought to the states. Why is this situation different? No one has explained why this wasn't done during the first two years of his administration when there was a friendly Democratic Congress to work with. I really don't know; are they still water boarding prisoners in Guantanamo?

None of the states want "terrorists" to be housed there. as for the last part, have you forgotten how many filibusters the repubs & blue dogs went on back then? he never had the 60+ needed to break them

[old guy]

Actually, there was a super max style prison that was built in Northwestern Illinois and never opened due to budget constraints in the state. They offered to, and were capable of housing the prisoners from Guantanamo. The local people were all for it. The state was split with 51% against it. "Some of the most outspoken proponents have been the communities surrounding the prison, where people hope the creation of some 3,000 jobs will be an economic boon. The jobless rate for Carroll County, where Thomson prison is located, stands at about 11 percent."

It was the perfect fit. They even started prepping the facility for the move. Then it was shot down when the discussions came up about trials being held within the country.

If you remember the outcry from people in this country about moving prisoners here, it was very loud. We do have a short memory sometimes when we talk about why something wasn't accomplished when there was a Democratic Congress or for that matter, a Republican Congress.

But whereas most Illinois Democrats point to the jobs and money that would flow to a depressed area of the state, Republicans, led by Rep. Mark Kirk, have opposed it, arguing that moving detainees to the area poses a security risk for northern Illinois and Chicago.
“Our economy is hurting everywhere … but the idea of moving a detention facility, where 200 of the worst known criminals on earth live, to our state under the guise of economic stimulus is outrageous,” says Rep. Aaron Schock, one of several Illinois Republicans who introduced a bill last month that would prohibit using federal dollars to move the detainees to US soil.

[maxx]

So are they still filling up that super max prison? If they are built, they tend to fill up. It's a corollary to Parkinson's law.