If some Republican lawmakers succeed, new state wide control will happen!

[detroitbob]

http://www.freep.com/article/2011122...e=nletter-news

If some Republican lawmakers succeed, Michigan's unique brand of university governance -- autonomy, little state control -- may inch toward a new statewide university system...


Well here it goes...he next attempt to control everything. So domestic partner benefits will be the first thing to chop...and if it passes Snyder will sing it...it's the will of the legislature...

[DetroitPlanner]

Oh man the Ann Arbor folks will have hissy fits to be put in the same boat with those slackers at Eastern, Wayne, and Oakland!

[brizee]

The University of Michigan East Lansing: fucking BARF!!

So basically SCum is going to get the majority of funding leaving the rest to fight like dogs for the scraps!?!?

[Novine]

The Logic of Lansing Republicans:

Public Schools: We spend too much so lets decentralize control to 1000s of charter schools accountable to no one.

Public Universities: We spend too much so lets have centralized control in Lansing over all colleges and universities.

[DetroitPlanner]

The Logic of Lansing Republicans:

Public Schools: We spend too much so lets decentralize control to 1000s of charter schools accountable to no one.

Public Universities: We spend too much so lets have centralized control in Lansing over all colleges and universities.

Truly ironic. This sort of stuff happens with the private sector all the time too though. Change for change sake. About the only thing I can see good about this would be reducing the need to have so many schools chasing after the same students. The newer law schools at MSU and Oakland, and the new med school at Oakland. Someone needs to ask, does this make sense when we have a state that is shrinking?

[corktownyuppie]

The Logic of Lansing Republicans:

Public Schools: We spend too much so lets decentralize control to 1000s of charter schools accountable to no one.

Public Universities: We spend too much so lets have centralized control in Lansing over all colleges and universities.

Come on now. That's a false analogy. With public schools if the state was decentralizing controls by adding a separate publicly-run and publicly-paid school boards for separate schools, THAT would be analagous to the facts on the ground.

I do think that in the public sector -- we should consolidate governance in order to create efficiency gains. We should not do so at the cost of destroying autonomy. DetroitPlanner has a point...do we really need 2 more med schools in a state which is shrinking? That just creates "university sprawl" where you have more institutions chasing after the shrinking pie. If those investments somehow turn us into a med/eds research mecca that draws people from all over the country...then that's another story.

I would prefer to see the research universities have a separate board from the non-research universities as their missions and business models are totally different from each other.

[Baselinepunk]

"DetroitPlanner has a point...do we really need 2 more med schools in a state which is shrinking? That just creates "university sprawl" where you have more institutions chasing after the shrinking pie. If those investments somehow turn us into a med/eds research mecca that draws people from all over the country...then that's another story."

from what I can tell down on WSU campus, the Med school there is not purely drawing from the local and State pool. What is concerning to me is the emanate burst of the financial aid bubble may "ghost-town" a lot of this educational medicall-based "industry" that a lot of higher ed went all in on.

[Zacha341]

Regarding public secondary education, the move towards charters and decentralization comes out of the white house ala 'Reach for the Top' or whatever it's called, Teach for America etc.

Specifically and 'applicably' initiatives and changes toward open and charters expanded under democrat Granholm.

And let's not forget the 'oops' factor born upon of the dyed in the wool repubs that voted for Snyder with his push towards 'open schools'.... hmmmm....

Expect more rulings and initiatives where repubs and dems don't always 'behave' as expected!

The Logic of Lansing Republicans:

Public Schools: We spend too much so lets decentralize control to 1000s of charter schools accountable to no one.

Public Universities: We spend too much so lets have centralized control in Lansing over all colleges and universities.

[Zacha341]

I was wondering when someone was finally going to mention the coming "financial aid" bubble....

....What is concerning to me is the emanate burst of the financial aid bubble may "ghost-town" a lot of this educational medicall-based "industry" that a lot of higher ed went all in on.

[Baselinepunk]

Well, as a person who owes 6 figures in student loans I try to keep up with this type of stuff.

I mean this completely tongue in cheek: It's just too damn bad that I did go to college with I should have, that way I could have went to school on loans that didn't have to be paid back like most of the people I know from back then. Until Bush II came in [[I believe) and changed the bankruptcy laws a person could go to school, rack up all kinds of debt and never have to really pay them back. I know of more than a few people; engineers, accountants, etc. that did that and never paid one payment.

[Novine]

"Come on now. That's a false analogy. With public schools if the state was decentralizing controls by adding a separate publicly-run and publicly-paid school boards for separate schools, THAT would be analagous to the facts on the ground."

Actually, you've got that wrong. Having a school board would provide for a level of accountability for taxpayers. What we have now is public tax dollars being spent with almost zero oversight and no accountability to the people who pay their taxes for schools.

[corktownyuppie]

"Come on now. That's a false analogy. With public schools if the state was decentralizing controls by adding a separate publicly-run and publicly-paid school boards for separate schools, THAT would be analagous to the facts on the ground."

Actually, you've got that wrong. Having a school board would provide for a level of accountability for taxpayers. What we have now is public tax dollars being spent with almost zero oversight and no accountability to the people who pay their taxes for schools.

Ok. I stand corrected. The problem I see is that you can't really compare primary and second educational systems without some discrepancies:

Primary [[public or charter): "Mandatory", 100% publicly funded
Secondary [[public): "Optional", funding from both public and individual sources

So yes, you're right that the charter schools eliminate the accountability from the taxpayers. [[Though it does create "accountability" to the students/parents/consumers)

But back to the universities, who are taking public money, and need some public oversight, why the backlash? I don't perceive this as a "control grab" but rather a streamlining of unnecessary layers of government? At minimum, I don't see why every university needs its own board. I can see why they'd WANT one....but is it necessary during a time of economic downturn?

[Novine]

Why have an elected public school board in every district? Why not consolidate them at the ISD level or better yet, have Lansing run everything?

[corktownyuppie]

Why have an elected public school board in every district? Why not consolidate them at the ISD level or better yet, have Lansing run everything?

This is the camel's nose fallacy, which ironically, was first coined on a debate about education control....

]This bill and the foregoing remarks of the majority remind me of an old Arabian proverb: "If the camel once gets his nose in the tent, his body will soon follow." If adopted, the legislation will mark the inception of aid, supervision, and ultimately control of education in this country by the federal authorities.

So first of all, Barry Goldwater was an idiot, in my opinion. So let's save the ad hominem arguments. His camel's nose argument, though, is a fair representation of what we all seem to be afraid of.

No, I don't want Snyder and his goose-stepping cronies running our schools, taking away local control and forcing little Timothy to starve, illiterate and impoverished.

There are fair questions about what are good uses of our resources. Does Grosse Pointe *really* need 5 different police departments? Did Pontiac really need its own police department when they could pool resources with Oakland County?

I'm not even taking a position that we should get rid of the university boards...I don't know enough to have an informed opinion. I'm just saying that we shouldn't throw out ideas from Lansing just because they're from Lansing.

[Baselinepunk]

"Why not consolidate them at the ISD level or better yet, have Lansing run everything?"

You wanna save some BIG cash? Eliminate the ISDs.

For example, casually thumb through the fiscal faux pas in Oakland County during the 90s. Redmond is the name and pocketing cash was his game. He was the Oakland County Kwame.

BTW: Where was LBP during all that? Oh, yeah, that's right .....

[Scottathew]

The Logic of Lansing Republicans:

Public Schools: We spend too much so lets decentralize control to 1000s of charter schools accountable to no one.

Public Universities: We spend too much so lets have centralized control in Lansing over all colleges and universities.

Brilliant post!