The Buena Sala Apartments, circa 1929 FOR SALE

[Richard]

Well it is back on Ebay this time with an added bonus of two buildings,looking at the pictures seems kinda hard to pass up.

You are bidding on 2 apartment buildings
100 Clairmount, Detroit, Michigan
13100 La Salle, Detroit, Michigan


http://www.ebay.com/itm/64-APARTMENT-UNITS-SALE-DETROIT-MICHIGAN-2-BUILDINGS-TOTAL-REHAB-4-INCOME-/270851042110?pt=Residential&hash=item3f0ffaeb3e

[davewindsor]

Well it is back on Ebay this time with an added bonus of two buildings,looking at the pictures seems kinda hard to pass up.

You are bidding on 2 apartment buildings
100 Clairmount, Detroit, Michigan
13100 La Salle, Detroit, Michigan


http://www.ebay.com/itm/64-APARTMENT...item3f0ffaeb3e

I don't know if this is a legitimate listing. I have yet to see any proof that this out-of-state vendor owns any of the 100 apartment building listings in Detroit she's posted for sale on e-bay over the the past few years.

She's listed a 14 unit apartment building in Boston-Edison that was listed half a dozen and claimed that it was 75% rented. When I asked her for a copy of the financials and rent roll she said her partner wouldn't provide it to her and she wouldn't provide it. How can someone sell apartment buildings and not provide financial data, rent rolls [[if occupied), no insurance receipts, no utility bills? She can't even provide access to these buildings so any potential buyer can view the inside prior to bidding. She seems to have her user name attached to every Detroit apartment building that's been listed on e-bay by other users over half a year ago, I remember when user badboy posted this listing over half a year ago and now pamsproperty has it. Why is she only selling apartment buildings from Detroit if she's from out-of-state? We searched her website on another thread and she doesn't operate in Michigan. If you look at user feedback, you'll see that she pumped up her history with a lot of $1 ebay purchases. She also has a negative feedback on past real estate listings.

I don't trust this e-bayer.

[riviera]

I myself sold a apartment block on eBay earlier this year which I didn't have the means to rehab and had no problems.

The problem is that alot of people out there are quite unscrupulous. especially when it comes to selling property that is occupied without the rent roll [[yikes!).

I have seen the aforementioned seller quite a few times on listings and always wonder where the property comes from as it's not the tax sale or from foreclosure auction to the best of my knowledge and I've done a bit or research.

This would suggest deed fraud to me.

I checked the ownership of the tax ID's in the above listing and they came back as:

08010201.

CLEMENTS, BRIAN K

13100 LA SALLE BLVD

02001430.

CLAIRWOOD APARTMENTS LLC

100 CLAIRMOUNT

and the other apartment block they have listed has 3 tax ID's

12002802.

PREMIER ONE MANAGEMENT LLC

2901 CHICAGO

06003154.

SAVY ONE INVESTMENTS

1651 WEBB

21008194.

SAVY ONE INVESTMENT

12785 CHELSEA

Hmm.

Anyone else familiar with this seller?

[Richard]

Q: Who owns the properties that are sold on www.pamsproperty.com?
A: All properties sold on www.pamsproperty.com, are owned by us through various legal entities and related partnerships. PLEASE NOTE: We are not a real estate brokerage firm, nor are any of the principals brokers or agents of any real estate company.


Translation : We sell for those who wish to remain discrete ,I think I am going to keep digging on this one.

[davewindsor]

Q: Who owns the properties that are sold on www.pamsproperty.com?
A: All properties sold on www.pamsproperty.com, are owned by us through various legal entities and related partnerships. PLEASE NOTE: We are not a real estate brokerage firm, nor are any of the principals brokers or agents of any real estate company.


Translation : We sell for those who wish to remain discrete ,I think I am going to keep digging on this one.

Hmmm, is 1409 Webb that's sold on the pamsproperty.com a 14 or 18 unit building? I thought it was a 14 unit, but the website now says 18. She sold it several times on e-bay. Very shady. On a few of the times it was posted for sale, I asked for the financials and rent rolls and access to see it as she claimed it was 70% rented and made $4,800 a month because I wanted to make an offer and she refused because apparently her partner wouldn't release the data and she couldn't show it because she was out-of-state. She wouldn't give me the name of the property management company. She couldn't even tell me how much the monthly utility bills were. She just responded vaguely that it's a real money maker that will make you tonnes of cash. She said it was relisted because the sale wasn't completed. Why refuse this data and offer it "as is" if it's 70% rented? It can only get the seller a better price. I tried to explain this to her in e-mail and she didn't respond. The only conclusion I could draw from her reluctance was that it was a scam and she never owned it or any of the other buildings she's listed for that matter. She's probably sold that building and collected money from multiple people without delivering because of some legal loophole somewhere. How much do you want to make a bet that she'll relist this same property for sale again in the new year?

[Pam]

Q: Who owns the properties that are sold on www.pamsproperty.com?

Not me.

[riviera]

It is not unusual for a building to be relisted several times on eBay as It's very common for buyers not to pay [[eBay does nothing). However something does not feel legitimate about her website and business practises... especially witht he rent rolls and uncertain ownership.

Not me.

Coincedence?

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

But its a big blowout sale and everything must go!

[barnesfoto]

it's a perfect situation for fraud. Shadowy records on ownership are the norm for large apt buildings, especially troubled ones. City record keeping is sloppy, nobody on the block is going to know who owns the building, so a gullible buyer can easily be taken....

[davewindsor]

Her ad is such a breeding ground for fraud. Take a look at this disclaimer:
"The winning bidder must contact me by email IMMEDIATELY after the auction ends and provide the name and address
for the deed and the buyers contact information or I reserve the right to not be obligated to sell to the winning bidder if they
do not contact me per this agreement or if they do not pay in full on the next day. I do not supply deed or owner information or
verification before payment has been made. If I do not hear from the winning bidder within 2 hours after the auction ends
then I reserve the right to re-list or give second chance offers.***"

The price is at $25K and the reserve bid is still not met. Yeah, I'm gonna send a wire for $25K by the very next day without any owner information.

The money is sent to the title company instead of paypal, but there's no name of the title company. She can set up a business name for fifty bucks or a c-corp for a couple hundred bucks and there's no way to investigate it before sending the money.

Normally, when I buy real estate, that $25K would go straight to my lawyer's escrow account until closing unless the name is reputable like "Wayne County Finance Dept."

The second chance offers is what really throws me. Reserve not met at $25K, so you get a second chance offer. Can someone even give negative feedback if it's a second chance offer and the money isn't sent by paypal. She can cancel the second chance offer right after you send the money and give a second chance to a third bidder. There's a potential here to sell that same listing to a dozen people using second chance.

And why is it a private auction? Is it to limit contact between all the users who have been scammed?

How much has she scammed people here with these listings? Millions? And e-bay turns a blind eye to this.

[Ocean2026]

Ebay itself is unscrupulous they allow listings on land which say " 25 acres bidding starts at $2000" then you find you are only bidding on the downpayment. I've asked Ebay to force those listers to say "down payment " in the title but no luck.

[Richard]

It is back again this time with even more apts/properties as a sweetener , so listing shows that one is activley trying to market the property either to the city or the bank.Property Id are listed anybody can see what the back taxes are?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/138-UNITS-SA...item3f10d41bcc


parcel #02001430. [[100 Clairmount)
parcel # 12002802 [[2901 Chicago)
parcel # 06003154. [[1651 Webb)
parcel # 21008194. [[12785 Chelsea)

parcel # 08010201. [[13100 La Salle)

[wolverine]

Why do people buy and sell properties on craigslist and ebay? It's shady both ways. Sorry to the folks here who have done that. This is why property continues to fall into the wrong hands and remain in a perpetual state of decay. The next person that swaps this up will likely fail.

[riviera]

Why do people buy and sell properties on craigslist and ebay? It's shady both ways. Sorry to the folks here who have done that. This is why property continues to fall into the wrong hands and remain in a perpetual state of decay. The next person that swaps this up will likely fail.

I completely disagree, just because a few people abuse it, it doesn't make it shady. The one other downside which someone else mentioned is that Wayne county record keeping and deed recording is pretty hopeless [[like many counties) which leaves the system open to abuse.

In reality buying or selling a property should be a similar process to buying or selling a car, it is because of bureacracy that ordinary people are paying 10% of the sales price of a ordinary property. The way it should work is you, as the owner of the property should be able to sell it any way you like to without being forced to use the MLS or an agent and pay their fee's. The only expenses should be the transfer taxes and title search/insurance if elected.

[Zacha341]

Something REALLY stinks about some of the so-called Ebay Detroit 'cheap' property sales. Most of the properties remain abandoned and squalid. Like the 100 Clairmount near Woodward that was the big talk here last year on that was 'supposedly' sold on Ebay. It remains abandoned with more windows out and in far worse condition. WHY IS IT BEING RELISTED?

Now regarding relisting fees, it is not to an Ebay sellers advantage to relist as Ebay charges you to relist and you've already paid for the original listing.

[Zacha341]

I think I'd stay away from this seller per how the listings are going and the relisting of buildings that remain squalid. Some of the photos on the site do NOT reflect the current condition of the buildings from just a drive by glance. Not to mention how much more they deteriorated inside since they were listed last year! I googled 'Pamproperty scam Detroit' and found a few interesting things:

http://pamsproperty.blogspot.com/201...from-ebay.html

[davewindsor]

I think I'd stay away from this seller per how the listings are going and the relisting of buildings that remain squalid. Some of the photos on the site do NOT reflect the current condition of the buildings from just a drive by glance. Not to mention how much more they deteriorated inside since they were listed last year! I googled 'Pamproperty scam Detroit' and found a few interesting things:

http://pamsproperty.blogspot.com/201...from-ebay.html

Just as I suspected from reading the comments section and talking to Pam's Property, you pay and don't get a real deed:

howthemarketindetroit said...
I too purchased property from this Ebay Seller back in November 2010 until today April 14, 2011 She has not delivered a marketable deed. She refused to refund my money and after research I've found out that I am not the only one she has done this too. Her ebay seller name is: pamsproperty. I am pursing legal action against her. BBB is investigating here business as the North Carolina Attorney General has been contact. If you are in the same position I would suggest you do the same.
April 13, 2011 10:44 PM

LN Padala said...
I too purchased property from this Ebay Seller back in October 2010, until today July 2011 she has not delivered a marketable deed. I personally went to Detroit registrar office of deeds. There was no sale deed in their office from pamsproperty which is what I was told by Pam [[that I will be recieving the official sale deed from Registrar office which is not true). They advised me to report this to fraud. Legal action is the next step. It seems like I am not alone. Let's fight this all together. I can be reached at lnpadala@gmail.com.

July 19, 2011 10:23 AM

[Zacha341]

Yep. Looks like we've got a standard Ebay 'scam' here. Just another hustler profiting off the city. I hope it comes out in the media, full-blast. I'm an Ebay seller/ buyer and this kind of stuff taints the whole Ebay community.

For those who've been burned contact all the necessary authorities including Ebay admin - which I admit is tough. Post your complaints on the Ebay forums, but be careful as retaliation is not unheard of ala people complaining have been smeared on the boards. Nonetheless, I've seen sellers tossed off Ebay for less. This - um, 'seller' needs to go!

There have been class action suits relative to Ebay merchants. I just received a small class action check regarding a jeweler who'd been swindling people. Of course they've been removed from Ebay, which too often looks the other way until forced to take action based on sheer numbers of complaints and official outside pressure.

Often the creeps resurface under a new name but in doing so they loose their 'feedback' numbers and status. Feedback is one area that's harder to replace or fabricate. I hear this individual makes you give positive feedback before going forward with the deal, which apparently is fake anyhow.

I would never enter into such a 'feedback' for transaction scenario with an Ebay seller.

Just as I suspected from reading the comments section and talking to Pam's Property, you pay and don't get a real deed:

howthemarketindetroit said...
I too purchased property from this Ebay Seller back in November 2010 until today April 14, 2011 She has not delivered a marketable deed. She refused to refund my money and after research I've found out that I am not the only one she has done this too. Her ebay seller name is: pamsproperty. I am pursing legal action against her. BBB is investigating here business as the North Carolina Attorney General has been contact. If you are in the same position I would suggest you do the same.
April 13, 2011 10:44 PM

LN Padala said...
I too purchased property from this Ebay Seller back in October 2010, until today July 2011 she has not delivered a marketable deed. I personally went to Detroit registrar office of deeds. There was no sale deed in their office from pamsproperty which is what I was told by Pam [[that I will be recieving the official sale deed from Registrar office which is not true). They advised me to report this to fraud. Legal action is the next step. It seems like I am not alone. Let's fight this all together. I can be reached at lnpadala@gmail.com.

July 19, 2011 10:23 AM

[Roadmaster49]

http://www.historicproperties.com/de...l_key=ncdet006

This was posted on a Historic Homes for sale website I frequent.

[davewindsor]

http://www.historicproperties.com/de...l_key=ncdet006

This was posted on a Historic Homes for sale website I frequent.

For sale yet once again by e-bay scammer Pamsproperty http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...ala-Apartments

Why isn't it listed by real estate agent?

[riviera]

Real estate agents are expensive and often are not willing to take on a non livable property or one which is low priced so will only attract a low commission. Anyway, properties listed on the MLS in Detroit sit on the market for years.

[davewindsor]

Real estate agents are expensive and often are not willing to take on a non livable property or one which is low priced so will only attract a low commission. Anyway, properties listed on the MLS in Detroit sit on the market for years.

Just the opposite. Real estate agents will often take on any listing to make themselves look good by having lots of listings on their page. It makes them look successful. I used to be a real estate agent. I know how it works.

It also gives the listing credibility that you're dealing with a real seller. I've rehabbed and resold tonnes of property as an investor myself. I tried so many times to list it as FSBOs and ended up selling it through an agent because most buyers just don't trust properties sold privately.

Also, Pam is listing it for $98K, if she really does own it. As I recall, e-bayer badboy sold it to someone for $7,500. It didn't say if it was sold to Pam. 6% commission of $98K is how much? Any offer the agent brings will still be a ton of profit for the vendor. Just because something sits on the MLS doesn't mean it's not seen; it means the price is too high. You can sell any house or apartment building if the price is right.

[Zacha341]

Thank you DW for reposting the link. Pam-the-scam here... No intent of selling or an outcome of rehabbing on any level, this is about diverting funds via eBay and or private sale scammola etc.

The buildings listed remain: Dying Hulks. They persist as potential havens for crime and body dump sites year-after-year despite supposedly being 'sold' on eBay or otherwise!!

That price is way too high and the area bad/ high crime. This is an obvious SCAM! I'm surprised eBay has not shut down this Pam persons profile.

For sale yet once again by e-bay scammer Pamsproperty

http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...ala-Apartments

Why isn't it listed by real estate agent?

[Zacha341]

Here's the building back up on eBay, six days to go. 'Happy holidays' indeed. Read the feedback... one negative has been removed. The positive one were probably posted by the buyers 'too soon' in the game before they found out the truth.

As a BUYER you can't retract positive feedback once given [[which is why I wait a few days after purchases I make on eBay to make sure it's working or whatever before leaving a pos feedback.)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/138-UNITS-SA...item3f10d41bcc

[softailrider]

Just the opposite. Real estate agents will often take on any listing to make themselves look good by having lots of listings on their page. It makes them look successful. I used to be a real estate agent. I know how it works.

It also gives the listing credibility that you're dealing with a real seller. I've rehabbed and resold tonnes of property as an investor myself. I tried so many times to list it as FSBOs and ended up selling it through an agent because most buyers just don't trust properties sold privately.

Also, Pam is listing it for $98K, if she really does own it. As I recall, e-bayer badboy sold it to someone for $7,500. It didn't say if it was sold to Pam. 6% commission of $98K is how much? Any offer the agent brings will still be a ton of profit for the vendor. Just because something sits on the MLS doesn't mean it's not seen; it means the price is too high. You can sell any house or apartment building if the price is right.

Probably not that one though - unless the buyer has some elaborate tax dodge in mind that's beyond me. Any knowledgeable buyer who actually wants one of those places would look for a functional one, rather then invest in something like that. Trust me, there are owners of apartment buildings in this city that are occupied and are going concerns, who want out and can't sell for anything resembling a decent price.

That building will never be rehabed in any of our lifetimes. It is a complete and total liability- not an asset in any sense of the word