Despair in Oakland County

**R8RBOB** · December-18-11, 06:43 AM

Mike Thompson of the Freep has a video that he made explaining the problems that Oakland County is facing. Now there has been posters who have claimed that Detroit need the suburbs more than the suburbs need Detroit but if folks in the OC are catching hell then how are they are going to come to Detroit's rescue?

http://www.freep.com/article/2011121...Oakland-County

P.S.
L. Brooks will spin it saying that Oakland County's problems is the result of Detroiters moving north.

**Hypestyles** · December-18-11, 07:15 AM

this should be forwarded to all of the GOP commissioners and legislators of Oakland county

lilpup · December-18-11, 07:52 AM

No, Oakland County's problems are a direct result of the automakers scorched earth employee cutbacks, especially since white collars got hit this time around, too, and many suppliers have pulled up stakes.

My brother was laid off from a supplier that has since moved their entire lab from Southfield to India.

SteveJ · December-18-11, 08:55 AM

Nobody is going to spin anything. Everyone acknowledges that the economy has hurt every county in the country. This is not a SE Michigan problem. Its a national problem.

**R8RBOB** · December-18-11, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by SteveJ

Nobody is going to spin anything. Everyone acknowledges that the economy has hurt every county in the country. This is not a SE Michigan problem. Its a national problem.

You are aware I was joking right about Brooks, right?

**D_Town** · December-18-11, 09:31 AM

We already knew that. I think OC is more worried about the long term investment within themselves because in the next 15-30yrs the shift from the suburbs to the city.

**iheartthed** · December-18-11, 09:41 AM

I don't really see the problem. If you're the regional economic engine then you should be burdened with the problems of the poorest among you.

**313WX** · December-18-11, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I don't really see the problem. If you're the regional economic engine then you should be burdened with the problems of the poorest among you.

Not according to the logic here in SE Michigan...I mean Metro Oakland County...I mean Metro Detroit.

**English** · December-18-11, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Not according to the logic here in SE Michigan...I mean Metro Oakland County...I mean Metro Detroit.

Right. The problem is that many around this region, including some leaders, don't really view this place as a region. Sigh... home rule...

**English** · December-18-11, 01:13 PM

On another note, I *love* the fact that Freep commenters must log into Facebook now before posting. The ones on this article are actually pretty good.

**R8RBOB** · December-18-11, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by English

On another note, I *love* the fact that Freep commenters must log into Facebook now before posting. The ones on this article are actually pretty good.

If this was under the old comment format, the ignorant posters would have flamed the hell out of Thompson.

**Bham1982** · December-18-11, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by D_Town

We already knew that. I think OC is more worried about the long term investment within themselves because in the next 15-30yrs the shift from the suburbs to the city.

Right, it's the same shift that's been just around the corner for 50 years now. Any minute now, Rochester Hills is moving en masse to Highland Park.

Oakland County obviously has lots of despair, like any major county has lots of despair. Certainly a huge county has plenty of poverty, crap areas and crime.

But it doesn't change the fact that Oakland has become the economic and wealth engine of the state. For better or worse, it's sucked up most of the prosperity, both business and residential.

**Gistok** · December-18-11, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Right, it's the same shift that's been just around the corner for 50 years now. Any minute now, Rochester Hills is moving en masse to Highland Park.

Oakland County obviously has lots of despair, like any major county has lots of despair. Certainly a huge county has plenty of poverty, crap areas and crime.

But it doesn't change the fact that Oakland has become the economic and wealth engine of the state. For better or worse, it's sucked up most of the prosperity, both business and residential.

Funny how the 2010 Census statistics seem to suggest otherwise in some areas. Oakland County gained only 8 thousand residents, while Macomb County gained 52 thousand residents, over 6 times as many.

I'm not sure about other statistics, but anyone driving down M-59 in Macomb County, certainly sees a lot "sucking up of that prosperity" that you speak of.....

**Bham1982** · December-18-11, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Funny how the 2010 Census statistics seem to suggest otherwise in some areas. Oakland County gained only 8 thousand residents, while Macomb County gained 52 thousand residents, over 6 times as many.

Obviously net population growth alone isn't a proxy for commercial or residential prosperity. If it were, than the most prosperous counties are exurban St. Clair, Livingston, and the like, since they have the highest growth rates.

Looking just at Macomb vs. Oakland, I would assume that Macomb has faster residential growth because it's much cheaper, has few development controls, and is much less built out.

But I was referring to wealth, not growth. Over the last few decades, Oakland sucked up the wealth from the Pointes and Detroit and sucked up the jobs from downtown. Macomb was never a player in terms of corporate centers or high-net-worth households.

SteveJ · December-18-11, 08:51 PM

Macomb is definitely a distant 3rd behind Oakland and Wayne. Macomb is the king of the cheap oversized properties that some people love and thats the growth. Where else can you buy a brand new 3000 sq ft home for $220k. Buy a 3000 sq ft place in parts of Oakland and you are talking 700k.

**Gistok** · December-18-11, 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by SteveJ

Macomb is definitely a distant 3rd behind Oakland and Wayne. Macomb is the king of the cheap oversized properties that some people love and thats the growth. Where else can you buy a brand new 3000 sq ft home for $220k. Buy a 3000 sq ft place in parts of Oakland and you are talking 700k.

LOL... maybe that's why growth is faster in Macomb County... you get more bang for your buck than in Oakland, and that's not a exaggeration. Many folks have looked at the options, especially with the M-59 corridor as possibly the largest retail cluster in SE Michigan.

Also the Clinton River Valley and Lake St. Clair coastline of Macomb County has thousands of very pricey homes. Most of metro Detroit's wealthy Italians live in the Moravian/Millar Road area of Clinton Twp. Some subs, such as the gated Villa Di Fiore have homes up to 10,000 sq. ft. So although Macomb Co. is mostly middle class, it has some very pricey areas in SCS, Harrison, Clinton, Shelby and Washington Twps... not to mention parts of Anchor Bay and Harsen's Island. Waterfront living doesn't come cheap.... especially when you want someplace to keep your boat.

**mwilbert** · December-18-11, 10:01 PM

These discussions always remind me of people arguing about who had the nicest staterooms on the Titanic. The region is in decline, and neither Oakland nor Macomb counties are likely to escape the effects. I half-suspect that the biggest harm that Detroit does to the region is to make the neighboring areas feel adequate by comparison.

**Scottathew** · December-18-11, 10:11 PM

Doom and gloom sensationalism. Yes, Oakland County has been hit along with the rest of the nation. The video reports a lot of percentages, and in some cases even takes statistics from a single city and tries to apply them to the whole county.

It's kind of like the one year in Warren when murders were up 100% from 2 murders, to 4 murders! Oakland County's vital statistics have been very good, and now they've normalized a little bit. Percentage-wise, it's shocking, but when you find out that per capita they're doing just as well or better than every other county, you find yourself less shocked.

There are still anti-Detroiters living in Oakland County. I grew up there, and I remember the attitude I was taught to have toward Detroit and black people. However, times are changing and so are people. Folks may want to pretend that Oakland County wants nothing to do with Detroit, but the fact is that south Oakland communities were about to spend a lot of grant money to study an extension of M1 Rail into their communities. South Oakland wants to be connected to Detroit.

I don't know why a journalist would waste time writing about the poor, poor people of Oakland County. Heaven forbid median household income drop below $60,000!

Don't get me wrong, I love Oakland County and will probably move back there from Warren in 2-3 years, but I just don't grab for a tissue when I think of how Oakland County has been fairing in comparison to other places.

**corktownyuppie** · December-18-11, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by SteveJ

Nobody is going to spin anything. Everyone acknowledges that the economy has hurt every county in the country. This is not a SE Michigan problem. Its a national problem.

It's definitely a national problem. Obviously, we're all feeling it to different degrees, but it's not fun out there for everyone. Livonia, once coined "the Whitest City in America", has always been a bastion for conservative politics and generally been a fiscally healthy city. But there are neighborhoods there where real estate values have dropped by 40-50% since 2008.

2008 really screwed a lot of people, businesses, organizations, and people over. The only difference is that Detroit was already on shaky ground to begin with, having lost 20% of its population between 2000-2008. Then throw in the crash of 2008? It's a serious mess.

No, we all are going to need to each other to get through this. The only difference is that Detroit needs everyone else more. When you can only use 60% of your revenue on services -- and that number is shrinking, not growing -- you have a real problem.

**Novine** · December-19-11, 09:46 AM

I posted this on another thread in response to Bham1982s take on the situation. As mwilbert pointed out, it's like crowing over being in first class on the Titanic. Being the best county of a sinking region is not much to talk about.

"Pretty much everyone on this thread [[actually myself included) thinks Brooks is a buffoon, but his county has really been a model of success under his reign. I'm not sure that he had much to do with it, but Oakland is Michigan's economic engine, and is a model of conservative budgeting."

Economic engine of a ramshackle jalopy that's been lagging behind real growth areas for decades. I guess if you set the standards low enough, we'll beat them! In 10 years, the county added 8,000 people. That's it. The county seat, Pontiac, is under the control of an Emergency Financial Manager. Many of the county's older communities are struggling and even some newer communities lost population in the last census. The county government has had to cuts millions and shed workers because the countywide tax base has collapsed. We're hardly a model of economic success.

**corktownyuppie** · December-19-11, 10:06 AM

I posted this on another thread in response to Bham1982s take on the situation. As mwilbert pointed out, it's like crowing over being in first class on the Titanic. Being the best county of a sinking region is not much to talk about.

Exactly.

60 years ago, Detroit was one of the finance capitals of the world, with Detroit Bank & Trust, Manufacturers Bank, and other institutions known worldwide. We were major innovators back then...first we innovated mass production and then we innovated how to multiply our sales volume by inventing a way to lend money to purchase a depreciating asset.

It's 60 years later, and what are we innovating? When was the last time we've had an initial public offering from a company going public? Other cities are inventing new ways to communicate and network with computers and broadband. Our state suffers from an aging population where 20% of our citizens are functionally illiterate. Even outside the limits of the City of Detroit, the numbers are staggering:

Wayne County up to 36%, Macomb and Oakland at 13-15%. Many suburbs – including Pontiac [[34%), Inkster [[34%), Southfield [[24%) – have high rates. Across Michigan, one in three adults reads below a 6^th grade level.

So all of us need to be in "reinvention" mode. How do we continue to adapt to a changing marketplace? Well, it gets hard to invest in our future when we're still paying off the credit card bill for our past.

Either our legacy costs will need to be restructured, or we will have to wait for an entire generation to pass on before we can move forward.

Let's face it, while there will be individuals -- and even entire municipal units -- that have sizable wealth, Michigan is becoming a low-income, uneducated state. We are poor and dumb, having become accustomed to a way of living which once made us wealthy, but no longer does.

Good news is that we have the building blocks, natural resources, and institutions that can propel us to go forward.

**Danny** · December-19-11, 12:48 PM

Oakland County may be one of the wealthiest suburbs in State of Michigan. However it does have poor low-income areas and its growing. The biggest target for low-income growth and slow white middle class flight is in the inner ring suburbs. That includes Royal Oak Township, Oak Park, Lathrup Village, Southfield and Pontiac.

http://projects.nytimes.com/census/2010/map?hp

1. Srcoll down to Michigan

2. Click on the Click on the 'Largest ethnic/racial group fromfrom 2000.

3. Click on the 'Largest ethnic/racial group from 2010.

4. Ones shaded from dark to light green is the white population.

5. Ones shaded from dark to light blue is the black population.

6. Keep clicking those 'Largest racial-ethnic group start from the 2000 to 2010 a couple times and you will see the color change of racial flight from its inner ring suburbs.