Feds, Snyder kill Woodward Light Rail Line

**corktownyuppie** · December-13-11, 11:28 PM

Where's Bill Shea right now....he just reported this in Crain's. WTF is going on? The Detnews.com site quoted all parties as being close to a deal 3 hours.

Assuming that this is the "deal", then please tell us that the pro-transit groups got something in return.

**antongast** · December-13-11, 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

I understand the logic of what you're saying. But I can also imagine a conversation where Snyder says, "Bing, if you guys go bankrupt there's no way you'll be able to operate this thing. Patterson is afraid that in a bankruptcy situation, his constituents would suffer. Macomb, Oakland, and Wayne are agreeing to politically support an RTA, but you have be willing to drop light rail for now and settle for BRT."

Patterson's official position is "I support an RTA as long as it doesn't help Detroit, and as long as every cent Oakland County residents pay into it gets spent on service in Oakland County." I'm not putting words in his mouth, I have his statement in front of me and that's what it says. It's completely impossible to construct any semblance of a functioning transit system to those specifications, and Patterson knows it. I guess we might get transit once he's dead.

**Russix** · December-13-11, 11:30 PM

I think the title of this thread should be "Feds, Snyder, Bing kill my hopes and dreams for Detroit".

I can't believe that all the work, put in by so many in the community, local leaders and fed can hit the dust bin so fast. Why now? Why? Why? Why?
Who the fuck is Snyder to say "BRT"? That was studied 5 years ago and rejected! Why? Poor TOD and huge subsidy from the private sector[[pretty much all of CoD's 40% local match). Then the years of working to merge the systems into one that would qualify for New Starts, WASTED. And here is the really big question: If Detroit can't fund the subsidy for pretty much a free transit system, where is it going come up with the local match for BRT? The local match from the private investors is now gone. So now operating subsidy and local match are required for BRT. Is Snyder going to fund Detroit's local match? NO. When Snyder and Bing discuss things, it makes that noise when you flush the toliet. You look at the news yesterday and City Council is picking board members for leading this project. WTF??

**corktownyuppie** · December-13-11, 11:36 PM

Originally Posted by antongast

I guess we might get transit once he's dead.

I hate to say this but it's true. Not just for Patterson, but for just about all the city, county, and state politicians who are just stuck in old ways of thinking. I can't wait for the generation born after 1980 to start taking over.

**Russix** · December-13-11, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by JenniferL

My enthusiasm for the light rail vanished when they said it would only extend from downtown to 8 Mile Road. There's absolutely no point in making 8 Mile and Woodward the destination for anything. There's NOTHING there!!! Even if the new strip mall plans actually come to pass [[and I have my doubts about that), it's still not enough. The light rail has to actually take people to places they want to go. Downtown Detroit to the airport to Ann Arbor would be ideal. Or go all the way up Woodward to Pontiac, so passengers can get off in Ferndale, RO, and Birmingham. But Woodward Avenue between 6 Mile and 8 Mile is a dead zone, as is Woodward between New Center and the Highland Park border.

It had to start somewhere. Without an RTA, the city could only hope to plan and build what was within their domain. I believe LaHood pleged 2 million to these groups to study expanding/connecting communities north of 8 mile to the light rail. http://www.woodwardavenue.org/Invest.html

**DTFellow** · December-13-11, 11:46 PM

Amazing what less than one month + public realization of utter and total impending economic disaster will do to optimism and possibility. Here is a blink back to November. http://www.freep.com/article/2011111...ing-get-easier

**Russix** · December-13-11, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

I hate to say this but it's true. Not just for Patterson, but for just about all the city, county, and state politicians who are just stuck in old ways of thinking. I can't wait for the generation born after 1980 to start taking over.

We can't. To many of us are gone. And change scares the seniors who incidentally will keep voting Patterson in till Strom Thurmond type status.

**rjlj** · December-13-11, 11:53 PM

The title of this thread is incorrect.
Bing did not kill light rail, the feds did not kill light rail, the suburbs did not kill light rail,

If you dig down, Detroit killed the light rail, actually the dire financial situation of Detroit killed it.

Detroit would not be able to sustain the light rail once it was constructed.

Yes, Detroit needs light rail and Southeast Michigan badly needs a regional transit plan. This will hopefully be the next step towards that.

**corktownyuppie** · December-13-11, 11:55 PM

Originally Posted by rjlj

Yes, Detroit needs light rail and Southeast Michigan badly needs a regional transit plan. This will hopefully be the next step towards that.

I'm not holding my breath...but...notice that Detroit News hasn't reported the story yet. Freep has had it up for hours. Detroit News reported around 6pm that the feds, Bing, and Snyder were within inches of a deal.

There's something else to this story....I wonder it WTF it is???

**mwilbert** · December-13-11, 11:59 PM

I do not like this decision. There was a well-defined process which resulted in the plan to put light rail down Woodward. Although I personally think BRT can work, that isn't what came out of that process. As people have already said, where is the money going to come from to operate the BRT if we can't fund the fairly pathetic bus system that we have now.

It may be that the lack of an RTA made this inevitable, but I don't see how this new path. And it certainly looks like I am going to owe Bailey some beer.

**begingri** · December-14-11, 12:01 AM

Originally Posted by antongast

Fucking Neanderthals. Everyone in a position of power in this fucking city, region and state, they're all fucking Neanderthals. I don't know where we find these drooling, knuckle-dragging idiots, or who decides that they need to be in a position of power [[I sure as shit don't vote for them), but somehow they never fucking go away, and when they do, their replacements are just as bad. Transit ain't hard, folks. Everybody else figured it out a long time ago. But Detroit? No, we can't, because we're governed by fucking Neanderthals. I need a fucking drink.

Could not have said it better. QFMFT.

**mwilbert** · December-14-11, 12:02 AM

I also can't help but comment on the freep "ambitious plan for a light rail line". That was about the least ambitious plan imaginable, other than only going up to New Center. The Detroit area is all about low expectations, I'm afraid.

Ravine · December-14-11, 12:40 AM

I can't believe that so many of you actually believed that we were going to get the goddam light-rail system in the first place.
Yeah, yeah, the funding was in place... just as it was for keeping Tiger Stadium standing, just as it has been for so many other projects that were shit-canned because putting together the funding to get something going is an entirely different matter from keeping it going.
Probably, the only "sustainable" [[AAAAHHHHHRRRRRGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!) light-rail system would be one that heads out of town and keeps going.

**Hypestyles** · December-14-11, 12:46 AM

If anti-tax absolutism political timidity were currency, this region would be trillionaires..

**Hypestyles** · December-14-11, 12:48 AM

so who exactly is going to own these "rapid-transit" buses? City of Detroit? Smart? Oh, wait, wouldn't they need a formalized Regional Transit Authority to operate these lines? Well, I guess a year or so from now, we know where those plans will be..

**Novine** · December-14-11, 12:54 AM

Crains coverage:

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...eaper-bus-plan

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...ath-in-detroit

**antongast** · December-14-11, 01:02 AM

Originally Posted by Novine

Crains coverage:

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...eaper-bus-plan

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...ath-in-detroit

Isn't that cute, Bill Shea still thinks he's a journalist.

Ravine · December-14-11, 01:11 AM

Shea is a journalist.

**Novine** · December-14-11, 01:14 AM

Detroit News finishing last.

http://detnews.com/article/20111214/...text|FRONTPAGE

**Novine** · December-14-11, 01:19 AM

From the News article.

"Ari Adler, a spokesman for House Speaker Jase Bolger, R-Marshall, said a regional authority needs new legislation because existing laws would hamper creation of one.
"We haven't seen any formal proposals on how to make this regional authority work yet, although we've heard the Senate Republicans are working on something," he said. "This regional authority idea has been tried in southeast Michigan before, and it has crumbled every time.""

So much for the talk of a deal being imminent. Watch this die a slow death in Lansing as Republicans kill any proposals that would fund this. They just voted down federal funding for health exchanges because it's tied to the Obama administration. I'm sure they'll do the same here. It will be the Troy Transit Center tea party drama on a regional scale.

**corktownyuppie** · December-14-11, 01:19 AM

All eyes are on you, L. Brooks...

http://detnews.com/article/20111214/...text|FRONTPAGE

Last week, LaHood met with Gov. Rick Snyder, Detroit Mayor Dave Bing and state transportation officials to talk about transit issues.

"I think the leaders in the region recognize if they really want to provide good transit services to the people, it has to be a regional approach," LaHood said. "The difference is this time you have two dominant leaders in the region, the mayor and the governor, who want to get this done."

Bing on Tuesday suggested the same approach.

**Novine** · December-14-11, 01:29 AM

L. Brooks doesn't give a hoot about what LaHood or Bing or Snyder think if they're not the ones ponying up the money to pay for the system. I don't know what part of the last 30 years of his public attitude you missed but it's clear that if Brooks isn't in control of the purse strings, he's not letting you touch "his" tax dollars. He's also not going to get on board a system he sees as subsidizing service in Detroit. If LBP can't get something out of the deal, he won't be interested.

**antongast** · December-14-11, 01:32 AM

Originally Posted by Ravine

Shea is a journalist.

What he's doing there isn't what I'd call journalism. He's too busy brown-nosing the "deep-pocketed, powerful Detroit advocates with downtown business commitments" to suss out the real story about how we as a region can't get our shit together on funding for transit operations.

**corktownyuppie** · December-14-11, 01:37 AM

Originally Posted by Novine

L. Brooks doesn't give a hoot about what LaHood or Bing or Snyder think if they're not the ones ponying up the money to pay for the system. I don't know what part of the last 30 years of his public attitude you missed but it's clear that if Brooks isn't in control of the purse strings, he's not letting you touch "his" tax dollars. He's also not going to get on board a system he sees as subsidizing service in Detroit. If LBP can't get something out of the deal, he won't be interested.

Hey now, Patterson came to the table with the Cobo Authority and they inked a deal that's in place and working, as far as I know at least. Yes, I recognize that Brooks likes it his way or the highway. But Barbara Rose Collins and Monica Conyers weren't any better on this side.

I think with pressure on Oakland County coming from Lansing, and with Detroit's weak negotiating position preventing them from making absurd demands....

...we might actually witness the miracle of pigs taking flight.

**Hypestyles** · December-14-11, 01:52 AM

Patterson won't be doing anything that won't politically punish Detroit by default.. he will likely bring up Detroit's current budget crisis as reason enough to simply put off talking about a cross-county transit system. Not unless Snyder plays hardball with him-- and he likely won't.. Look for another stillborn round of 'regional authority talks'..