Feds, Snyder kill Woodward Light Rail Line

**Novine** · December-13-11, 08:53 PM

"The ambitious plan for a light rail line on Woodward Avenue between downtown Detroit and 8 Mile road has been scrapped in favor of a system of high-speed city and suburban buses, several officials briefed on the decision told the Free Press today."

Link to full Article

**rondinjp** · December-13-11, 08:56 PM

I give up. This city just plain sucks.

**dtowncitylover** · December-13-11, 09:03 PM

It's disgusting and shameful.

**Bham1982** · December-13-11, 09:04 PM

I think, in the long run, this will be very good news. In terms of mobility, light rail offers no advantages over buses.

Light rail's relative advantages have nothing to do with mobility, which is why it was primarily conceived as another urban renewal project, rather than a transportation project.

**ProudMidwesterner** · December-13-11, 09:14 PM

This hurts, but honestly, I thought the EFM takeover jeopardized the light rail line. Still, I'm much more of a light rail fan than more rapid bus lines.

Is the SEMCOG line from Ann Arbor still set to go?

**j to the jeremy** · December-13-11, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by ProudMidwesterner

This hurts, but honestly, I thought the EFM takeover jeopardized the light rail line. Still, I'm much more of a light rail fan than more rapid bus lines.

Is the SEMCOG line from Ann Arbor still set to go?

The SEMCOG line...that's a funny joke.......

fuck snyder. fuck bing. neither deserve capital letters.

**downtownguy** · December-13-11, 09:18 PM

“We’re basically throwing away a $3 billion economic development investment,” Owens said. “I’m outraged Mayor Bing would let this happen on his watch.”

Why should we be surprised? Bing is basically a wimp and ineffective as a leader. He goes crying that he needs help from the business community at the Mackinac conference. But here, he has a coaltion of business leaders and private money, yet he caves. Sure the city is strapped for cash and providing ongoing operating support would be a great challenge. But how's that going with your exisiting bus system, Mr. Mayor? Why not leverage goodwill and influence from Messrs. Penske, Gilbert, Karmanos, Ilitch and Rapson [[of the Kresge Foundation) to do something significant for this region, rather than running away with your tail between your legs. You wanted this job, Mayor Bing, and you have stated that you want it for another 4 years. How about you begin to act like a leader?

**Richard** · December-13-11, 09:18 PM

Part of urban renewal is progressive transportation .

lilpup · December-13-11, 09:19 PM

Finally, an intelligent decision for Detroit's future!

**Flintoid** · December-13-11, 09:20 PM

This is incredibly, incredibly disappointing. Hopefully rapid transit buses can be effective. I am so,so disappointed by this.

**DLife** · December-13-11, 09:21 PM

I knew it was never going to happen. Lets throw more money at the DDOT and SMART busses. It's such a great efficient system today. First thing I want to see now it getting rid of the bus tax off our property tax bills and let the Fed's pay for them.I'm voting no next time it comes around for a vote.

**Bham1982** · December-13-11, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

Part of urban renewal is progressive transportation .

I disagree.

What is the "problem" that is solved by such a transportation investment?

Is it revitalizing Woodward for yuppies and hipsters? If so, light rail is a no-brainer.

Or is it mobility for Detroiters? If so, then buses are a no-brainer.

Most Detroiters work in the suburbs, and so buses provide the superior flexibility for regional jobs access. Light rail can't compete, especially in such a dispersed region. You would need 20 rail lines to provide halfway decent access to job centers.

**j to the jeremy** · December-13-11, 09:28 PM

Sounds to me like LaHood couldn't convince Snyder to force L. Brooks Patterson to sign onto an RTA. So there would have been no way to operate the rail. Now we get a system of Snyder buses which will either require an RTA, or be worse than what we have now. Any regional transit whatsoever will never be useful to working people without a regional tax. If you don't believe me, ask every major metropolitan area in the USA. SMART is dying because of the Opt-out policy, and DDOT is dying because the city's tax base has completely eroded.

**ProudMidwesterner** · December-13-11, 09:28 PM

But what light rail can do is provide rapid transit in its own right of way on a major axis, thus providing an efficient backbone for a network of buses. Look at the Hiawatha line in Minneapolis.

As for the SEMCOG line, pardon me as a non-Detroiter, but has that fallen by the wayside as well?

**j to the jeremy** · December-13-11, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by ProudMidwesterner

But what light rail can do is provide rapid transit in its own right of way on a major axis, thus providing an efficient backbone for a network of buses. Look at the Hiawatha line in Minneapolis.

As for the SEMCOG line, pardon me as a non-Detroiter, but has that fallen by the wayside as well?

Right you are sir. The Woodward line would have greatly benefited the bus system as a whole.

The SEMCOG line to A2 has been off the table, informally, for a while now.

**iheartthed** · December-13-11, 09:29 PM

After six years of being dicked around yet another Detroit transit plan meets the trash can. I hope no one is surprised by this...

**Novine** · December-13-11, 09:30 PM

Not highlighted in the article is who's going to pay for the magical, mystery bus system that Snyder wants to impose on the region? It alludes to the various players in the county getting behind the system and legislation coming down the road. Where's the money that's going to fund the operation of this system and who's going to run the system?

**BasementBeat** · December-13-11, 09:32 PM

Wow, Snyder and Bing wanted to keep young professionals and the creative class in Detroit? Decisions like this will drive us away, totally. Initially, this is damn disheartening.

**Jowlska** · December-13-11, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

I think, in the long run, this will be very good news. In terms of mobility, light rail offers no advantages over buses.

Light rail's relative advantages have nothing to do with mobility, which is why it was primarily conceived as another urban renewal project, rather than a transportation project.

Totally agree... As a daily bus commuter, light rail wouldn't have helped the system one bit. We need a working bus system before another failed people mover... For now I think that getting a direct bus to the airport or other regional destinations is a much higher priority. I hope they get this "high speed" bus thing rolling fast and once some operating costs/regional funding are figured out a light rail system should be addressed.

**iheartthed** · December-13-11, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

I disagree.

What is the "problem" that is solved by such a transportation investment?

Is it revitalizing Woodward for yuppies and hipsters? If so, light rail is a no-brainer.

Or is it mobility for Detroiters? If so, then buses are a no-brainer.

Most Detroiters work in the suburbs, and so buses provide the superior flexibility for regional jobs access. Light rail can't compete, especially in such a dispersed region. You would need 20 rail lines to provide halfway decent access to job centers.

Whatever man. Last week I met the president of the company that is developing the Hudson Yards project in Manhattan [[I'm sure you know a little about this...). He said that project was a non-starter without NYC committing to extending the 7 line to the west side. To paraphrase his words "it won't work without making sure you have the transit in place. London learned this the hard way with Canary Wharf." Buses already run to the far west side of Manhattan, and have done so for many decades. It's about the transit.

**Treelock** · December-13-11, 09:46 PM

I'll hold out hope that high-speed buses will be a good thing, if they're ever built at all. But I can't imagine they'd have anywhere near the economic multiplier effect that rail would.

This is so damn disheartening.

**Richard** · December-13-11, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

I disagree.

What is the "problem" that is solved by such a transportation investment?

Is it revitalizing Woodward for yuppies and hipsters? If so, light rail is a no-brainer.

Or is it mobility for Detroiters? If so, then buses are a no-brainer.

Most Detroiters work in the suburbs, and so buses provide the superior flexibility for regional jobs access. Light rail can't compete, especially in such a dispersed region. You would need 20 rail lines to provide halfway decent access to job centers.

I respect your views but in some cases a rail project like that would serve every class including tourists that would also visit and spend dollars in the future Woodward shops. Private dollars were behind the push because implmenting the light rail even more so in Detroits case would send a strong message of moving forward . It is a bit more then a 10 million dollar a year facade. Or as simple as I did not get my bridge you do not get your rail. But anyways the whole bus thing was actually announced a couple of months back so no supprise even more so if they are provided by GM.

**Bham1982** · December-13-11, 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by ProudMidwesterner

But what light rail can do is provide rapid transit in its own right of way on a major axis, thus providing an efficient backbone for a network of buses.

This is true, except BRT can do the exact same thing, except much cheaper, and doesn't require transfers as with light rail.

With BRT, you could board downtown, and go to Somerset, Twelve Oaks, or Hall Road job centers without transfers. This would be impossible with light rail. So Sally Smith who lives in Detroit works at WalMart in Troy will benefit from a faster, more direct commute than with light rail.

If, however, the primary intent is to build up downtown [[rather than provide regional mobility), then I totally agree that light rail is a vastly superior choice. Fixed rail will assist spatial concentration.

**313WX** · December-13-11, 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

With BRT, you could board downtown, and go to Somerset, Twelve Oaks, or Hall Road job centers without transfers. This would be impossible with light rail. So Sally Smith who lives in Detroit works at WalMart in Troy will benefit from a faster, more direct commute than with light rail.

Isn't this what SMART was supposed to be for? Serious question...

And if SMART is "failing", what makes anyone think this will work, especially with the same dynamics at play [[assuming it even comes to fruition).

**R8RBOB** · December-13-11, 09:59 PM

While reading this story I saw this

Bing’s office wouldn’t release details of the discussions, but said the mayor and LaHood agreed that the city, where more than 60% of residents with jobs work in the suburbs, would be better served by high-speed buses instead of rail, said Bing spokesman Dan Lijana.

60% of residents work outside the city!!! It is not surprising why Detroit is always being pissed on. All the industries are outside the city and this led Bing and LaHood to decided that super-buses taking the poor citizens of Detroit to the suburbs would be the best course of action. Wait, the region has two piss-poor bus systems hanging on by a thread. Only in Detroit.

I will be dead before Detroit is a world-class city again. It will not happen in my lifetime. No way in hell.