The Rising Cost of the Residential Electrical Bill

[HistoryNotHisStory]

A great story from USAToday! I have known this for years. While the energy demand from residential sector has stabilized in the past 30 years our cost is continually increasing. This is the main reason why America needs Renewable Energy. This is why Michigan needs Offshore Wind Farms in the Great Lakes. http://www.usatoday.com/money/indust...terstitialskip

[Danny]

Most electric rates are very dirt cheap out in the Sun belt areas due to wind power, the hydroelectricity dams. Much better than using nuclear energy that could blow up in our faces like Chernobyl, Three Mile Island and Fukushima Daiichi Disaster.

[Papasito]

Hey - I have a great idea...! Let's build a nuclear power plant in a low lying area near the shore of an island historically known for tidal waves, earthquakes and cyclones!

[lit joe]

Word of the day co op. Just got our end of year check, they can't make money. I love TEXAS.

[Mikeg]

Good thing that guy with the funny-sounding name didn't win in 2008 or our electric bills would be even higher!

"Under my plan of a cap and trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket." - Barack Obama, January 2008

Oh, wait.....

Good thing that the US House didn't pass Obama's plan of a cap and trade system, or our electric bills would be even higher!

Oh, wait, it seems that they did pass it - under the brilliant leadership of Speaker Pelosi!

Good thing that the US Senate failed to pass Obama's plan of a cap and trade system, or our electric bills would be even higher!

“In order to pass comprehensive legislation, you have to have 60 votes..... To get 60 votes, you’ve got to have Republicans. As of today, we don’t have one Republican." - US Senator John Kerry [[D-MA), July 22, 2010

Good thing there are some Republicans with a backbone or our electric bills would be even higher!

[old guy]

Good thing there are some Republicans with a backbone or our electric bills would be even higher!

Yeah, we sure are lucky.

Mikeg, I don't know about you, but my electric bill has been climbing for as long as I can remember. That's about five democratic presidencies and six republican presidencies. The bills always tend to head in the same direction.

It's probably true that with republicans in control, there would be less regulation and utility companies could produce power at a lower cost. My guess is, the utility companies would make more money and my electric bill would continue to rise.

There's a small hydro electric dam about a half mile from my house that's over a hundred years old. They just spent 18 months or so upgrading it because of its age and worries that the dam might collapse. Big project. Do you think they'll pass the cost onto the consumers? Will that also be Obama's fault? I think Benjamin Harrison or Grover Cleveland was president when they built the dam. Maybe I should be pissed that they didn't make sure the contractors used better materials.

[firstandten]

Good thing there are some Republicans with a backbone or our electric bills would be even higher!

If you can name those Republicans and tell me how they kept my electric bills from going up higher and higher I promise I will be nice to the Repubs for the next month and I'll even watch that three ring circus....errr debate next time they have one.

[MikeM]

A great story from USAToday! I have known this for years. While the energy demand from residential sector has stabilized in the past 30 years our cost is continually increasing. This is the main reason why America needs Renewable Energy. This is why Michigan needs Offshore Wind Farms in the Great Lakes. http://www.usatoday.com/money/indust...terstitialskip

I doubt residential electricity use has been stable for the past 30 years. I wouldn't be surprised if it's doubled since then. And why do people think that cost increases shouldn't be passed on to consumers?

[Trumpeteer]

From USA Today..

"Residential demand for power dropped briefly in 2009 but rebounded strongly last year to a record high. Air-conditioners and household appliances use less power than ever. A new refrigerator consumes half the electricity as a similar one bought in 1990. But consumers have bigger houses, more air-conditioning and more electronics than before, outpacing gains in efficiency and conservation."

Average residential power consumption has not been stable at all. Look back just ten years or so, have you added computers, flat screens, surround sound, etc. ALL on virtually all the time.

[old guy]

I doubt residential electricity use has been stable for the past 30 years. I wouldn't be surprised if it's doubled since then. And why do people think that cost increases shouldn't be passed on to consumers?

If you're referencing what I said about the cost of repairing the dam being passed on to the consumers, I'm not arguing that point. I understand that's what's going to happen. I have a business and when possible, I have to pass on rate increases. I'm merely trying to point out that all this aging infrastructure that needs to be updated, will cost money and will create rising bills in many utility areas. To blame Obama every time your rates go up seems a little over the top. I'm sure there are plenty of things he's done that people can point out. I don't think that's one of them.

[MikeM]

I'm not referencing what you said, just complaints in general about electric bills. I understand that people aren't happy with rising bills, but why do they think that the utilities are exempt from increasing costs of everything, from coal to copper, from taxes to wages, etc? They all sound like my 90 year-old mother who can't believe bread is more than 35 ¢ a loaf.

[oladub]

Supply /Demand
1) The larger the supply of dollars available to purchase the same amount of goods and services, the more prices go up.
2) Shutting down dozens of coal plants to satisfy new EPA standards, shutting down hydro-electric plants on the Snake River for the Indians and sports fishermen, restricting permits for fracking natural gas, and restricting permits to drill oil in Alaska, off the Gulf Coast, and elsewhere all reduce the supply of fuel making the cost go up.
3) Certain advancements in conservations such as more efficient light bulbs reduce the cost of fuel by reducing demand.
4) other new technologies such as electric cars will increase electrical demand and raise the price of electricity.

The cleaner air standards will raise the price of electricity but may be offset with health benefits thus reducing the cost of medical care.

US coal sales to China and elsewhere are doing well. Without so much US competition for coal, foreigners don't have to pay as much for US coal. It still gets burned though.

[rb336]

yes, fracking, which has already renderred unpotable numerous aquifers.
yes, let's let more mercury, etc, into the great lakes so we can sell salmon and trout thermometers.
yes, let's destroy the salmon fisheries. after all, it's not just the Nez Perce but it is the entire stock of pacific chinook that have been decimated by the damming of the Snake. before the dams, over half a million salmon went up the river to spawn. after, that dropped to a low of a few hundred

[oladub]

"with the exception of medical and oil, [[inflation) is non-existent. and the inflation in oil is more the result of the rise of the CRB economies increasing demand." -rb's post 391 on the ObamaCare thread

rb, Are you conceding that the price of electricity is also going up as others here suggest?

Norway has huge salmon fisheries despite exporting huge amounts of hydro-electricity to Germany and Holland. Norway builds fishladders on their hydro dams instead of tearing them down. What exactly do you suggest replacing green* hydro power with? Our government claims we will need 14% more electricity by 2035 which seems incredibly low considering population growth and the advent of electric cars. Maybe more of our industry will move overseas to use US coal there for manufacturing. That would cut both US pollution and the need for more domestic power plants. Every hydro electric dam that gets tone down has to be replaced with something.

Ironically, Roosevelt built many of our hydro dams and Obama is tearing them down. Obama had been a big supporter of projects to build nukes [[think labor union jobs) but has become silent about that since the problems in Japan.

*Norway and Canada, with the exception of British Columbia, consider hydro electricity production to be a source of green energy.

[rb336]

"with the exception of medical and oil, [[inflation) is non-existent. and the inflation in oil is more the result of the rise of the CRB economies increasing demand." -rb's post 391 on the ObamaCare thread

rb, Are you conceding that the price of electricity is also going up as others here suggest?

Mine haven't risen appreciably in years, and I just compared my Nov 2011 to my Nov 2004 bills.

Norway has huge salmon fisheries despite exporting huge amounts of hydro-electricity to Germany and Holland. Norway builds fishladders on their hydro dams instead of tearing them down.

much of Norways hydro comes from areas that do not have an impact on fish hatcheries, and the requirements for those that do are extremely stringent, taking into consideration log floating, fish and even farm boundaries as well as the aesthetics of the rivier system as a whole [[not just the generating area). The cost of retro-fitting snake river hydro is prohibitive to some. It can be done, but there is resistance to that as well. American money would NEVER put up with the weirs, ladders, etc required by Norway.

What exactly do you suggest replacing green* hydro power with?

I suggest reduction in consumption. Energy-hogging mcmansions should get a surcharge.

Ironically, Roosevelt built many of our hydro dams and Obama is tearing them down. Obama had been a big supporter of projects to build nukes [[think labor union jobs) but has become silent about that since the problems in Japan.

not a correct usage of the term. nothing ironic about it.

*Norway and Canada, with the exception of British Columbia, consider hydro electricity production to be a source of green energy.[/QUOTE]

Norway and Canada have a vested interest in considering it "green." However, large-scale projects are as destructive to their environments as strip mining can be, and there are also other consequences:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/...-revealed.html

[HistoryNotHisStory]

word of the day co op. Just got our end of year check, they can't make money. I love texas.

yes co-ops

in california, there are co-op community that owns solar pv systems and sells it back to the grid.

Hopefully it can get started in michigan.

[Papasito]

Coal is abundant and common and we have more here in the US than anyone else has anywhere in the world. Oil is abundant and available from ourselves, our neighbors to the North and to the South. Power should be cheaper, but we are constantly told it's more and more scarce, driving up the price.

The price increases are artificial.

Created by industry scare tactics, Government moderation and overregulation, media, the green movement, and anyone else that can stand to make a buck by telling you they are going to shut down coal plants and that oil is about to run out any day now...




Meanwhile, as we are scared to produce cheap, abundant energy, China is building plant after plant, modernizing, and teaching us a lesson of what a nation can do when it's not afraid of progress.....

[HistoryNotHisStory]

From USA Today..

"Residential demand for power dropped briefly in 2009 but rebounded strongly last year to a record high. Air-conditioners and household appliances use less power than ever. A new refrigerator consumes half the electricity as a similar one bought in 1990. But consumers have bigger houses, more air-conditioning and more electronics than before, outpacing gains in efficiency and conservation."

Average residential power consumption has not been stable at all. Look back just ten years or so, have you added computers, flat screens, surround sound, etc. ALL on virtually all the time.

And where did you get your data?

In the words of Lt. Spock, your rational is highly illogical.

[HistoryNotHisStory]

i doubt residential electricity use has been stable for the past 30 years. I wouldn't be surprised if it's doubled since then.

to the doubter:

I never post opinions, only facts.

Look at the chart! From 1970 to 2000, energy consumption stabilized while the cost of energy per capita increased 500%.

This data comes from the dept. Of energy -energy information administration.

never debate with a man with a brain.!

[old guy]

Meanwhile, as we are scared to produce cheap, abundant energy, China is building plant after plant, modernizing, and teaching us a lesson of what a nation can do when it's not afraid of progress.....

Yes, we need to modernize America like China is doing as soon as possible.
Attachment 11611

Attachment 11612

Below is a link to Lou Gueng's photos of China and the pollution from coal.I'm actually proud to live in a country that has some leaders that don't think it's a good idea to subject its citizens to this kind of a life. This is exactly why you consider options. Teaching us a lesson? Yes, they certainly are. Hopefully we're learning from these lessons.
Shocking pictures of pollution in China

[HistoryNotHisStory]

i doubt residential electricity use has been stable for the past 30 years. I wouldn't be surprised if it's doubled since then.

to the doubter:

I never post opinions, only facts.

Look at the chart! From 1970 to 2000, energy consumption stabilized while the cost of energy per capita increased 500%.

This data comes from the dept. Of energy -energy information administration.

never debate with a man with a brain.!

[MikeM]

I thought the topic was electric bills. Your charts are showing energy consumption, which includes many different forms and sources. I don't know how the chart was produced, but some of those statistics regarding energy use include items such as transportation, and could include energy used indirectly, such as the energy used outside the U.S. to manufacture goods consumed here.

A quick look at some EIA statistics show the number of kWh used in the U.S. over the past thirty years has nearly doubled:

1980: 2094 billion kWh
2010: 3889 billion kWh

[Trumpeteer]

And where did you get your data?

In the words of Lt. Spock, your rational is highly illogical.

The quote is from USA Today which is the same source for your initial thread opening. I'm also in the industry and know factually that usage has not remained stable at all. Yes overall usage has decreased or declined in specific segments due to residential downturns or industrial closings but not on an average basis per metered facility.

BTW it's MR. Spock not Lt.

[rb336]

Below is a link to Lou Gueng's photos of China and the pollution from coal.I'm actually proud to live in a country that has some leaders that don't think it's a good idea to subject its citizens to this kind of a life. This is exactly why you consider options. Teaching us a lesson? Yes, they certainly are. Hopefully we're learning from these lessons.
Shocking pictures of pollution in China

Who can't remember the Beijing Olympics, and the clouds of pollution in spite of the govt. shutting down nearby polluters for weeks before the games?

[East Detroit]

Who can't remember the Beijing Olympics, and the clouds of pollution in spite of the govt. shutting down nearby polluters for weeks before the games?

Those who wish to do away with the EPA in order to increase Wall Street profits, I suppose.

By the way... up in the thread one person says energy use per person has stabilized and another person says overall use has increased. Perhaps it is due to population growth if you are both correct.