Relative prosperity of Hammtramck

**Modusvivendi** · December-05-11, 02:13 AM

Just to lay all my cards out on the table, I'm new to this forum and not from Detroit but have a lay interest in cities and their development, especially Detroit's. I've never been to Detroit but it's a place I hope will see better days in the future.

One thing I've noticed just exploring the area on google street view and google earth is that hammtramck seems to be an island of relative stability in the middle of Detroit. It doesn't look like houses have been demolished en masse and I understand that home values there are several times what they are in Detroit. Why is this? Is this mainly a function of hammtramck being its own municipality and being able to maintain better government?

**animatedmartian** · December-05-11, 04:03 AM

Hi and welcome to the forum!

Partly yes and partly no. From an "average city" standpoint, Hamtramck isn't probably all that special. It's most valuable asset is its ethnic heritage. Most of its preservation comes from the fact that people have just never left Hamtramck [[or at least at a super fast rate like Detroit's). It has a high population density especially for a town it's size which is probably a big factor. And I'd assume people are probably satisfied with its government, but in that sense, it's very similar to many other suburban cities in that it's almost a bedroom community.

**Dexlin** · December-05-11, 05:37 AM

The relativey 'health' of its neighborhoods belie that fact that exactly a year ago, it was literally begging for a municipal bankruptcy that was only averted because they struck a settlement with already fiscally teetering Detroit over Poletown Plant revenue sharing. Great little town, but animated is really kind of right when he says it's most valuable asset is its ethnic heritage; that and its aggressive push at attracting foreign-born citizens that stick together in tough times. While the surrounding communities have foreign-born populations in the single digits, a good 40% of Hamtramck at the 2000 Census was foreign-born. In fact, that it's only real and tangible valuable asset, because it's financially as poor as just about anywhere you'll find. It is no mistake that it was under state fiscal management for most of the previous decade. What they get kudos for, again, is maintaining a true community under very dire circumstances.

**Hypestyles** · December-05-11, 08:13 AM

...how can detroit promote itself more to attract immigrant communities..

**DetroitPlanner** · December-05-11, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by Hypestyles

...how can detroit promote itself more to attract immigrant communities..

Jobs help.

**Bham1982** · December-05-11, 08:51 AM

Hamtramck is obviously healthier compared to Detroit and HP because of immigrants.

**Wesley Mouch** · December-05-11, 11:03 AM

It may be the immigrants [[new & old), but its not just their mere existence. Look at the area just north. It was being populated my immigrants, and its just collapsed into dust.

I think Hamtramck 'works' because it is a community of a reasonable size that can look out for its residents [[me) own interests -- and has a police force to enforce its interests.

All the ethnicity in the world doesn't make a community work. It needs to be enforced, and Hamtramck does that.

**Danny** · December-05-11, 11:13 AM

All the Yemeni Arabs, Begladeshis, Sri Lankis, East Indians mixed in with Poles, Albanians, Checzs, Germans, Hungarians and low-income blacks. Hamtramck is like living in a mini-New York like enviroment.

As for Downtown Hamtramck, is slowly dying! It have lost over 100 businesses since 2008 housing crisis and fewer new businesses have been popping up.

**Detroitnerd** · December-05-11, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

It may be the immigrants [[new & old), but its not just their mere existence. Look at the area just north. It was being populated my immigrants, and its just collapsed into dust.

West of Joseph Campau is really dicey, but I have some friends moving north of Carpenter on the east side. Not too bad over that way, until you get to Davison. Beyond there, it's deeply troubled.

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

I think Hamtramck 'works' because it is a community of a reasonable size that can look out for its residents [[me) own interests -- and has a police force to enforce its interests.

Detroit used to have a ward system. Maybe bringing back district voting will help in this way.

By the way, Hamtramck is the densest, most walkable, most diverse city in Michigan. Hands down.

**Hamtragedy** · December-06-11, 12:03 AM

And the police show up in two minutes or less. 876-7800.

**Wesley Mouch** · December-06-11, 12:46 AM

Originally Posted by Danny

All the Yemeni Arabs, Begladeshis, Sri Lankis, East Indians mixed in with Poles, Albanians, Checzs, Germans, Hungarians and low-income blacks. Hamtramck is like living in a mini-New York like enviroment.

Isn't it great! You can get such a variety of great food -- not just Polish.

Originally Posted by Danny

As for Downtown Hamtramck, is slowly dying! It have lost over 100 businesses since 2008 housing crisis and fewer new businesses have been popping up.

This makes it no different than most cities in the USA.

**davewindsor** · December-06-11, 01:30 AM

Originally Posted by Danny

As for Downtown Hamtramck, is slowly dying! It have lost over 100 businesses since 2008 housing crisis and fewer new businesses have been popping up.

Slowly dying? I'd have to disagree. It's definitely not dying. I'd say the dynamic is evolving. I walked around/drove down Jos. Campau about half a year ago. It was lined with storefronts that were mostly rented. It reminded me a lot like walking around/driving down Wyandotte St. in Windsor. It wasn't high end, but it also didn't feel like anything within Detroit's city limits.

**Dexlin** · December-06-11, 06:39 AM

Originally Posted by Hamtragedy

And the police show up in two minutes or less. 876-7800.

I'd sure hope that'd be the case in a city of 2 square miles. Hell, you can nearly throw a stone across the entire city. lol

**Bham1982** · December-06-11, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

Slowly dying? I'd have to disagree. It's definitely not dying. I'd say the dynamic is evolving. I walked around/drove down Jos. Campau about half a year ago. It was lined with storefronts that were mostly rented. It reminded me a lot like walking around/driving down Wyandotte St. in Windsor. It wasn't high end, but it also didn't feel like anything within Detroit's city limits.

Yes, Jos Campau is better than almost any retail strip in Detroit city limits [[though probably not better than W. Vernor in SW), but it's still pretty bad, and definitely in decline.

Jos. Campau was lined with tons of fashion retailers for the working class as recently as 10 years ago. That's mostly gone, and there are lots of vacancies and crappy stores.

IMO, Hamtramck looks good compared to adjacent neighborhoods in Detroit, but still appears to be in pretty bad shape. I don't recall abandoned buildings and slummy looking streets in the past, and you definitely see them today.

**Scottathew** · December-06-11, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

By the way, Hamtramck is the densest, most walkable, most diverse city in Michigan. Hands down.

Hamtramck, according to the source I found, is the 13th densest city in the entire United States. 10,000+ per square mile!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...lation_density

**gameguy56** · December-06-11, 10:13 AM

What does the future hold for Hamtramck? More decline with the rest of the state? Will it be revived by young people?

**Detroitnerd** · December-06-11, 11:55 AM

Lots of immigration. Bengalis, Yemenis, Catholic Albanians, Bosnians, even some new Poles.

And the Bengalis sure have built up Conant and Holbrook. There are now almost more businesses on Conant than on Joseph Campau, including Indian-style restaurants, shops, groceries. It's terrific to be able to walk to the corner of Gallagher and Caniff, eat at the Middle Eastern joint, shop at the Yemeni grocery, cross the street and get quality meats from Bozek, and roll it all home in a cart. Not as dense as Brooklyn was, but pretty darn close.

**animatedmartian** · December-06-11, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by gameguy56

What does the future hold for Hamtramck? More decline with the rest of the state? Will it be revived by young people?

Actually, when I think about it, it is pretty remarkable that it hasn't declined further already [[if it's still declining or changing or whatever). It's very much like any other suburb outside of Detroit in that its economy is largely connected to the regional population rather than being directly affected by Detroit.

Hamtramack isn't exactly advertised as a hot tourist-y spot as much as Royal Oak, Ferndale, or even Dearborn. At least not that I'm aware of. It'd be interesting to see the effect if was treated as such.

**hamtown mike** · December-06-11, 01:45 PM

I must second the opinions of those who have mentioned an effective government and police and fire departments.

Why on this very forum Mayor Majewski reached out to me when I had a complaint and was considering leaving. Not many mayors would do that. She and other members of Hamtramck's government have worked with me to put together a project that has renewed my enthusiasm for the city. Details are still being hammered out, but once settled, you can be sure that we will share it here first. It's going to be pretty cool.

And to those who have mentioned the blighted properties, the city's hands are tied. They are still in the process of settling a 30+ year lawsuit. Until it is settled the city cannot divest itself of any property. Once the terms of the settlement are complete [[perhaps in the next 2-3 years) watch for an amazing growth spurt- ie rehabbing former city owned homes and the purchase of vacant property.

**rjk** · December-06-11, 02:31 PM

I wonder if the poletown plant never went up if it would have had any effect on Hamtramck? I don't know much about that area pre PP, but based on what my relatives have told me and things I've read it wasn't the best area. My grandmother lived a few blocks east of the PP and I know her area was getting bad pretty fast around that time.

I-75/buisnesses on the west side and the Poletown plant to the south and Hamtramck is isolated on two side from bad or soon to be bad neighborhoods.

**gameguy56** · December-06-11, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

Actually, when I think about it, it is pretty remarkable that it hasn't declined further already [[if it's still declining or changing or whatever). It's very much like any other suburb outside of Detroit in that its economy is largely connected to the regional population rather than being directly affected by Detroit.

Hamtramack isn't exactly advertised as a hot tourist-y spot as much as Royal Oak, Ferndale, or even Dearborn. At least not that I'm aware of. It'd be interesting to see the effect if was treated as such.

Hamtramck is pretty much the only intact urban neighborhood with a business district outside of parts of the southwest. It is remarkable that it is able to keep going. The worry is that the creeping blight and crime from surrounding Detroit neighborhoods to the north and east finally get to Hamtramck. Or that a slowdown in the regional economy finally shutters a large portion of the business district.

Hamtramck may end up as a hidden gem for young people seeking an integrated urban neighborhood but don't really want the big buildings of downtown/midtown. If it can siphon off some more of the Royal Oak/Ferndale crowd [[which it already does with the Painted Lady and Small's) then it will be ok. The next generation of young adults really want walkable integrated communities like Hamtramck. How much that means to Southeastern Michigan's existing walkable communities has yet to be seen, I guess.

**Detroitnerd** · December-06-11, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

Actually, when I think about it, it is pretty remarkable that it hasn't declined further already [[if it's still declining or changing or whatever). It's very much like any other suburb outside of Detroit in that its economy is largely connected to the regional population rather than being directly affected by Detroit.

I couldn't disagree more strongly. Hamtramck's economy is largely connected to the influx of people from Yemen, former Yugoslavia, Albania, Bengal, Sri Lanka and especially Bengalis via New York. No other suburb attracts so many immigrants, and they all are opening new businesses of their own to cater to their respective communities.

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

Hamtramack isn't exactly advertised as a hot tourist-y spot as much as Royal Oak, Ferndale, or even Dearborn. At least not that I'm aware of. It'd be interesting to see the effect if was treated as such.

I think it was voted one of the 15 hippest neighborhoods in the U.S. and Canada about 15 years ago by Utne Reader magazine. Despite the rising non-drinking population in town, it still has lots of great bars for seeing live music.

**Danny** · December-06-11, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

Slowly dying? I'd have to disagree. It's definitely not dying. I'd say the dynamic is evolving. I walked around/drove down Jos. Campau about half a year ago. It was lined with storefronts that were mostly rented. It reminded me a lot like walking around/driving down Wyandotte St. in Windsor. It wasn't high end, but it also didn't feel like anything within Detroit's city limits.

Oh yes it is! I've been down there a couple times. Even Days clothier store [[ been in business since 1924) has been close for a while. Long gone is the Old Federal's Department Store [[Shopper's World) been close since 2007. The economic crisis of 2008 made it happen.

**Detroitnerd** · December-06-11, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by Danny

Oh yes it is! I've been down there a couple times. Even Days clothier store [[ been in business since 1924) has been close for a while. Long gone is the Old Federal's Department Store [[Shopper's World) been close since 2007. The economic crisis of 2008 made it happen.

While it is true that many of the old-line department stores are empty, and challenging to redevelop or fill, much of the action has moved to Holbrook, Caniff and Conant. Those areas are filling up with new restaurants, stores, etc. Joseph Campau has a little Yemeni section several blocks south of Holbrook, and the old Glory Foods is now a 14,000-square-foot Value World -- a bonus in my book. There are also all sorts of cool little shops -- Recycled Treasures, Lo & Behold Records, Record Graveyard, Detroit Threads, that hang on along Joseph Campau. The lady behind Good Girls Crepes is opening up a sandwich shop soon, I hear. All in all, it's a positive sign, even if we lose a few graying businesses like Day and Shoplifter's World.

**RickBeall** · December-06-11, 07:15 PM

The relative prosperity of Hamtramck is largely due to its being its own political entitity. If Detroit owned Hamtramck, then Hamtramck would have been treated like Delray or Poletown.

Are we saved by the immigrants? Yes! But why do they come to Hamtramck instead of Delray? Delray was ethnically very similiar to Hamtramck. It is because we have our own little government, fire dept, and police force. We sometimes do not know how we are going to continue to pay for our city services, especially when you factor in the retired city workers of various sorts, but those city workers give the rest of us enough safety to live our day to day lives.

Is my theory about being our own local government the total answer to Hamtramck's success? No. Look at our northeast border with Highland Park. Highland Park is not a success. Looking in that direction, you do get the feeling that the continued inflow of immigants is a very important piece of the secret Hamtramck sauce.

I would tell you the rest of the secret, but, then I would have to kill you. With kindness though, paczki, Amar Chicago Style Pizza, Maria's Comida Ghost pepper hamburgers, beef shawarma ..... You wouldn't want that, would you?