How much of Detroit must burn down before Federal troops arrive?

[boneshaker]

Pops and I drove throughout Detroit on Sunday. Started in Delray, ended at State Fair.A few pockets of nicer neighborhoods still exist, but they are clearly in the minority. We estimated about 60-70% of the areas we saw were either vacant, burned down or empty lots. Pops lived through the 67 riots and said the level of destruction today far exceeds what the 67 riots did.Is that Detroit's plan for a comeback? Let the city burn down then rebuild?Everyday we see plumes of black smoke from our house close to the Detroit border on the westside. Everyday more building burn. Still no Federal troops...

[Occurrence]

What do you suggest? Have our military patrol the streets with tanks? Get real.

[iheartthed]

Why would the feds step in before the state?

[313WX]

The country has pretty much given up on Detroit, like the state.

Why waste the time, money and energy?

A lot of what's left, save some of the structures downtown and in the historic neighborhoods, won't likely be salvagable in another 10-20 years.

[boneshaker]

It seems futile at this point to do much of anything on a local level. No other American city is as bad as Detroit is today. Federal dollars still pour into Detroit. There needs to be some level of decency. Some level of civilized behavior must be expected. Detroit is an American city, taxpayers across the USA deserve better. An emergency manager and or bankruptcy wont solve the problem. Federal troops on every corner are needed now.

[Occurrence]

I just got home from lunch at Mexican town. I didn't see any need for military troops at any corner. Are you drunk or something?

[DetroitPlanner]

It seems futile at this point to do much of anything on a local level. No other American city is as bad as Detroit is today.

Hmm dunno about that....
Gary, IN
Youngstown OH
Cleveland OH
Toledo OH
Dayton OH
Saginaw MI
Flint MI
Pontiac MI

Have all lost more population than they now have. What do all of these cities have in common? They are all industrial cities that have not been able to reposition themselves. The only one that seems to have done allright is Pittsburgh and thats becaust they have recognized that they will never be the same as they were and moved on.

BTW, it seems you are answering your own question. Are you trolling for an arguement?

[antongast]

I'm not sure how federal troops are supposed to be the solution to parts of the city being burned-out and blighted. Here are some examples of what built-up urban areas typically look like after US military interventions:

[Scottathew]

I'm not sure how federal troops are supposed to be the solution to parts of the city being burned-out and blighted. Here are some examples of what built-up urban areas typically look like after US military interventions:

Yeah, we're pretty good at that...

Not that I would be for a government bailout of Detroit, but I'd rather we spend our money on helping folks in Detroit than killing people around the world.


The bottom picture is a nuke on a Japanese city, right? I have no idea what the top one is, perhaps a German city from WWII?

[313WX]

Hmm dunno about that....
Gary, IN
Youngstown OH
Cleveland OH
Toledo OH
Dayton OH
Saginaw MI
Flint MI
Pontiac MI

Have all lost more population than they now have. What do all of these cities have in common? They are all industrial cities that have not been able to reposition themselves. The only one that seems to have done allright is Pittsburgh and thats becaust they have recognized that they will never be the same as they were and moved on.

BTW, it seems you are answering your own question. Are you trolling for an arguement?

He meant major american city.

Cleveland may be an exception, but even its worst areas aren't nearly as bad as Detroit's worst areas. Plus their downtown is well ahead of our downtown in terms of a revival.

Pittsburgh knew they had to diversify their economy before their city hit rock bottom, which helped them. Detroit is just not realizing that's what it has to do as well, but it may be too little too late if it means saving Detroit as is [[a major american city).

[EastsideAl]

We've been invaded by federal troops twice in the past century. That's really the last thing we need again. Talk about doing something that's going to create resentment! We already spend enough money sending out troops halfway around the world to kill people and spread resentment. In any event, I'm wondering where you would find the Constitutional authority to do such a thing? The city may be in very rough shape, but that's primarily a matter of economics and population shifts. There's no insurrection going on here.

As for your notion of federal dollars pouring into Detroit, that is just laughable. Many many areas of the country, including a lot of places far wealthier and in much better shape than Detroit, receive a lot more federal dollars per capita and a far greater return on the federal tax dollars they put in than Detroit does. We can't even get enough to keep our buses running, due to changes in federal transit funding that highly favor the building of highways in North Dakota over the funding of transit in our cities. You want to spend some federal money in Detroit, how about starting with something like that that would actually help the people who live here, rather than bringing in the frigging tanks.

[EastsideAl]

The bottom picture is a nuke on a Japanese city, right? I have no idea what the top one is, perhaps a German city from WWII?

The top picture is from the US/British destruction of Drseden in WWII, the bottom picture is of the destruction of the A-bombing of Nagasaki.

[animatedmartian]

New Orleans is still pretty crappy even many years after Katrina passed by. The hardest hit areas look just like Detroit and the governments aren't really doing anything about it. So if this is how they treat cities that have been hit by sudden natural disasters, why should we expect them to worry about a multi-generational manmade diaster?

[bailey]

He meant major american city.

Cleveland may be an exception, but even its worst areas aren't nearly as bad as Detroit's worst areas. Plus their downtown is well ahead of our downtown in terms of a revival.

Pittsburgh knew they had to diversify their economy before their city hit rock bottom, which helped them. Detroit is just not realizing that's what it has to do as well, but it may be too little too late if it means saving Detroit as is [[a major american city).

Did Pittsburgh diversify or did it already have other things going for it to cushion the fall or make the fall a far softer landing than what Detroit's could be. One glaring difference I see is that Pittsburgh has several major universities that are not based on commuter/non traditional students inside it's city limits that anchor major sections of the city. It also has a few more in the 'burbs that no doubt contribute to the knowledge based economy.

I mean,take WSU and Uof D and add in UM, Central, EMU and Oakland along with the majority of their student bodies, as well as all the jobs that go with all those students and you're getting close to the total in higher education economy that Pittsburgh has had at its disposal.

Also, go take a look at the large companies that have called Pittsburgh home [[an airline, a few massive banks, aluminum producers, natural gas suppliers, Heinz...etc) and continue to do so and then look at Detroit...not Metro Detroit ...Detroit, city of.

I'm really not sure Detroit counts as a "major American city" any longer...it was on the right list. Frankly, being the only city of it's size without a mass transit system [[DDOT is NOT mass transit) is disqualifier enough.

[animatedmartian]

Did Pittsburgh diversify or did it already have other things going for it to cushion the fall or make the fall a far softer landing than what Detroit's could be. One glaring difference I see is that Pittsburgh has several major universities that are not based on commuter/non traditional students inside it's city limits that anchor major sections of the city. It also has a few more in the 'burbs that no doubt contribute to the knowledge based economy.

I mean,take WSU and Uof D and add in UM, Central, EMU and Oakland along with the majority of their student bodies, as well as all the jobs that go with all those students and you're getting close to the total in higher education economy that Pittsburgh has had at its disposal.

Also, go take a look at the large companies that have called Pittsburgh home [[an airline, a few massive banks, aluminum producers, natural gas suppliers, Heinz...etc) and continue to do so and then look at Detroit.

I'm really not sure Detroit counts as a "major American city" any longer...it belongs on the list you were so offended by.

Yea really when you think about it, all the companies that are HQ'd in Detroit are mostly small to midsize companies. The Big 3 are still pretty much the only thing keeping Detroit from shrinking further.

[Detroit Stylin]

How about we recognize it for what it really is. The 800lb gorillas in the room are regional/ statewide racism that got the city to the state where it is today and the same entities that are determined to keep it in the state that it is in now. ALSO state indifference, political apathy and the fact that he is implying sending federal troops into the city seems to have a very racist implication cause clearly we need the federal troops to keep the animals that inhabit the city at bay.

I seriously don't see the need to keep entertaining the troll since he has clearly laid bare before you what he really thinks...

[detroitsgwenivere]

This sounds like a politically charged question. Or a statement made by someone who may not know anyone who actually lives here.

[Detroit Stylin]

this sounds like a politically charged question. Or a statement made by someone who may not know anyone who actually lives here.

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeegs smackly!

[Wesley Mouch]

How about we recognize it for what it really is. The 800lb gorillas in the room are regional/ statewide racism that got the city to the state where it is today and the same entities that are determined to keep it in the state that it is in now. ALSO state indifference, <snip>

This is precisely the sort of denial thinking that keeps Detroit where it is. Sure, there's racism aplenty to find, if you want to find it. But ignoring the much larger issues on the table is self-destructive. There's absolutely nothing about Detroit that couldn't be solved, if the people of Detroit decide to set their own destiny -- and stop looking at only the failings of other -- such as racism. Let them be racist. And make yourself great. That's the best cure for racism anyway.

[Goose]

lets run to the federal government of help.... the cause of the problem is going to bail us out with borrowed chinese money... yea!!!!

[boneshaker]

It just seems wrong that we just accept Detroit as it is and anyone wishing to change the status quo is belittled and ran out of the area.Detroit is just a much larger version of Penn State. The crap can go on for years, locals just accept the behavior as "normal" and anyone wishing to change things for the better is labeled as trouble.

[detroitpride313]

This is precisely the sort of denial thinking that keeps Detroit where it is. Sure, there's racism aplenty to find, if you want to find it. But ignoring the much larger issues on the table is self-destructive. There's absolutely nothing about Detroit that couldn't be solved, if the people of Detroit decide to set their own destiny -- and stop looking at only the failings of other -- such as racism. Let them be racist. And make yourself great. That's the best cure for racism anyway.

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree with that. We need to join together and strive to change Detroit for the better instead of just sitting around and pointing fingers at other people. What happened in the past is in the past and we need to move forward and try to improve the future

It just seems wrong that we just accept Detroit as it is and anyone wishing to change the status quo is belittled and ran out of the area.Detroit is just a much larger version of Penn State. The crap can go on for years, locals just accept the behavior as "normal" and anyone wishing to change things for the better is labeled as trouble.

This too is true. We have become far too complacent with things, which is why things aren't changing as fast as they could be. If we actually tried to fix these things instead of labeling them as normal then perhaps we would be making more progress than we are now. Either people think that the condition of Detroit is normal and don't do anything to fix it or they just sit around hoping that things will change one day and both of these are wrong attitudes to take. The bottom line is these attitudes need to change if we want Detroit to change.

[internet_pseudopod]

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree with that. We need to join together and strive to change Detroit for the better instead of just sitting around and pointing fingers at other people. What happened in the past is in the past and we need to move forward and try to improve the future....

Therein lies the problem. If people and institutions are racist they aren't going to join together. People aren't going join together if the same city/suburban divides exist that benefit one at the expense of the other. We must find ways to confront, marginalize, and root out racist individuals and institutions. We must find common interests that eliminate the old divisions. You can never overcome an obstacle by ignoring it.

[Lowell]

Our problem is that our disaster happened in slow-motion over decades.

We needed it to happen instantly, like 9/11 or Katrina. Those events are easy for the public mind to grasp and for Washington to open its wallet, pour in the billions and for the public to send more out of sympathy. We have had more destruction of property, houses, businesses and cumulative loss of life than those events, but all we get is scorn and blame -- and no federal troops or dollars.

[lilpup]

Our problem is that our disaster...

was largely self-inflicted