Suicide of a Superpower

[maxx]

http://www.booktv.org/Program/12949/...lph+Nader.aspx

This is Pat Buchanan's latest. He will be on Cspan2, channel 104 or 105 on Comcast, tonight expounding on why the U.S. is killing itself. I don't know how he figures the U.S. has lost its christian faith. Nearly everyone in gov. claims to be christian. Maybe be he's going to show his true liberal feelings about feeding the hungry and clothing the naked ---as long as they stay in their own countries.

[ghettopalmetto]

http://www.booktv.org/Program/12949/...lph+Nader.aspx

This is Pat Buchanan's latest. He will be on Cspan2, channel 104 or 105 on Comcast, tonight expounding on why the U.S. is killing itself. I don't know how he figures the U.S. has lost its christian faith. Nearly everyone in gov. claims to be christian. Maybe be he's going to show his true liberal feelings about feeding the hungry and clothing the naked ---as long as they stay in their own countries.

The Holocaust denier is going to lecture how we've lost our social and moral compass?

Blow it out your ass, Pat.

[maxx]

He did make some interesting points. I can't remember them all and I didn't take notes. He criticized the right for making a bogie man of Iran which hasn't invaded another country in over 200 years which is saying something in this day and age. He also talked about the U.S. melting pot which does not exist today. He is concerned that the numbers suggest that the southwest will be an extension of Mexico in another 50 years.

[maxx]

From the review of Fr. Charles Erlandson at amazon.com:

In Chapter 2, Pat gives but some of the many measures of how we are now much less a Christian nation, from the prayers at Obama's inauguration to the relative collapse of evangelical Christianity to the disintegration of The Episcopal Church. Pat then gives some measure of how the "death of God has blown up our decent and civil society." The loss of a Christian American identity has not only created many social ills but has also precipitated what have been called the "culture wars."

Pat recommends dismantling the American empire. For most of my adult life, I've been in favor of most of America's wars, but more recently I've had to re-think my position. While it's scary to contemplate a world without American intervention, it may, in the end, make us stronger and not weaker. I heartily agree with his proposal to downsize the state, and I think others are starting to agree. But, unfortunately, I think we're all so addicted to government handouts that we'll never have representatives who will vote for smaller government. Instead, I'm afraid that an economic catastrophe will force our hand. ..

[a nation "addicted to gov. handouts" from someone who lives off the charity of his parishioners.]

[rb336]

. He is concerned that the numbers suggest that the southwest will be an extension of Mexico in another 50 years.

The southwest has been an extension of Mexico, albeit under US control, since the M-A war

[oladub]

The southwest has been an extension of Mexico, albeit under US control, since the M-A war

Huh? rb, Whose side are you on? Mexico was a Spanish colony for about 162 years and independent for just 31 years before it's war with the US. Texas, California and the rest of the southwest have been part of the US for the last 158 years. Even though the the southwest has been part of the US for five time as long as it was under Mexico and is still populated by a majority of US citizens despite the efforts of some of our elected leaders, you are saying that that California, Texas, Colorado, etc. are an extension of Mexico under US control. I disagree. They are part of the US period. Why Mexico? To extend your logic, why shouldn't the southwest be part of Spain or the Apache and other Indian nations?

Is Alaska an extension of Russia, and Louisiana a part of France too?

[jiminnm]

The southwest has been an extension of Mexico, albeit under US control, since the M-A war

Give it up oladub. This was an asinine statement from someone who, I suspect, knows nothing about life in the southwest.

[rb336]

it was a JOKE. geez, lighten up and get the ssticks out of your asses

[EastsideAl]

Gotta love that old racist, anti-semite, holocaust-denier lecturing us all about good Christian values. If that kind of intolerance is what passes for "good" Christianity [[and I know that it isn't) then thanks but no thanks Pat.

If Christianity is somehow in decline, than how come every single Republican presidential candidate has to go out of his/her way to tell us how incredibly Christian they are and seem to try to appeal to the most reactionary Christian sects out there? This is actually something rather new for Republicans, and is not historically something that previous Republican candidates like Eisenhower or Nixon, or even Goldwater, felt compelled to do.

Oh, and there's a lil' historical difference between Louisiana/Alaska and the U.S. southwest. While the U.S. bought Louisiana and Alaska, it took the southwest from Mexico by force.

[oladub]

Oh, and there's a lil' historical difference between Louisiana/Alaska and the U.S. southwest. While the U.S. bought Louisiana and Alaska, it took the southwest from Mexico by force.

So what are you saying Al? Are you agreeing with rb's "joke" that "The southwest has been an extension of Mexico, albeit under US control, since the M-A war"? Don't forget that Russia and France sold their real estate under duress and that France was establishing an ill fated beachhead in Haiti to re-take the Louisiana Territory. Maybe we should feel guilty and pay them more. If Spain took the southwest and Mexico from Native Americans by force and Mexico took that same land from Spain by force and the US took it from Mexico by force, I would say it now belongs to the US. How about you? The US took New England from England by force too. So what?

[EastsideAl]

Just applying a little historical corrective, that's all.

As for me, I'm always on the side of people, not borders.

[jiminnm]

Oh, and there's a lil' historical difference between Louisiana/Alaska and the U.S. southwest. While the U.S. bought Louisiana and Alaska, it took the southwest from Mexico by force.

Yes and no. After the Mexican-American war, in 1848, the US paid Mexico for the territories taken and assumed debts owed by Mexico to American citizens [[total $20-25 million). In 1852, the US purchased the territory from Mexico that now makes up the southern border of the US [[in the Gadsden Purchase). That was $10-12 million if I remember correctly.

[rb336]

So what are you saying Al? Are you agreeing with rb's "joke" that "The southwest has been an extension of Mexico, albeit under US control, since the M-A war"? Don't forget that Russia and France sold their real estate under duress and that France was establishing an ill fated beachhead in Haiti to re-take the Louisiana Territory. Maybe we should feel guilty and pay them more. If Spain took the southwest and Mexico from Native Americans by force and Mexico took that same land from Spain by force and the US took it from Mexico by force, I would say it now belongs to the US. How about you? The US took New England from England by force too. So what?

Let's look culturally. Do you deny that there is a lingering mexican influence in the culture of the southwest, or a lingering french influence on Louisiana culture.

The US took New England by force??? Really? Which part of New England wasn't part of the 13 colonies/original states? Massachusetts? Connecticut? Vermont? New Hampshire? Maine? Rhode Island? if anything, they took the rest of the colonies from england by force We tried to take the maritimes, quebec and ontario by force, but got our butts kicked and our capital burned for the trouble

[Occurrence]

The Holocaust denier is going to lecture how we've lost our social and moral compass?

Blow it out your ass, Pat.

I'm no Pat Buchanan fan, but our social and moral compass in this country is usually judged by mentally ill religious folks who believe in imaginary creatures. I'm not really sure which is worse.

[maxx]

http://communities.washingtontimes.c...america-survi/

"...[T]he decline in academic test scores here at home and in international competition is likely to continue, as more and more of the children taking those tests will be African-American and Hispanic. [...] Can the test-score gap be closed? With the Hispanic illegitimacy rate at 51 percent and the black rate having risen to 71 percent, how can their children conceivably arrive at school ready to compete?..."

Pat says the numbers don't lie.

[stipes]

I'm no Pat Buchanan fan, but our social and moral compass in this country is usually judged by mentally ill religious folks who believe in imaginary creatures. I'm not really sure which is worse.

I'm no fan of him either, but you was right on one thing of the social and moral compass,but I want to explane too....
You cant say anyone that is religious is mentally ill...
I'm not a big church fan,,never been and didnt want anyone to push me into going,,but I have my own way of believing in God,,and I do believe in him ...Now before anyone slams me for saying that,,we all have something inside us that makes us ,,,well us..
Lowell with his art,,,and forgive me for saying this and he could chim in and tell me I;m wrong,,,He has a gift that others wished we could have...He see Detroit tru his eyes and have to put it down on a canvas or photo...It;s something so wonderfull in his eyes he see each day and he shares with us......
Me,,,.I see the part of my country,,the trees and mountains,,and the been here for thousands of years,,,and as I always walked tru this little ground my Grandfather bought so many years ago,,and past down to my Dad,,,and now to me,,it's a piece of heaven that you see and have to believe in something...
Homer Hickam wrote this and wanted to share about believing....

Sago Miners Memorial Remarks
Families of the Sago miners, Governor Manchin, Mrs. Manchin, Senator Byrd, Senator Rockefeller, West Virginians, friends, neighbors, all who have come here today to remember those brave men who have gone on before us, who ventured into the darkness but instead showed us the light, a light that shines on all West Virginians and the nation today:

It is a great honor to be here. I am accompanied by three men I grew up with, the rocket boys of Coalwood: Roy Lee Cooke, Jimmie O'Dell Carroll, and Billy Rose. My wife Linda, an Alabama girl, is here with me as well.

As this tragedy unfolded, the national media kept asking me: Who are these men? And why are they coal miners? And what kind of men would still mine the deep coal?

One answer came early after the miners were recovered. It was revealed that, as his life dwindled, Martin Toler had written this: It wasn't bad. I just went to sleep. Tell all I'll see them on the other side. I love you.

In all the books I have written, I have never captured in so few words a message so powerful or eloquent: It wasn't bad. I just went to sleep. Tell all I'll see them on the other side. I love you.

I believe Mr. Toler was writing for all of the men who were with him that day. These were obviously not ordinary men.

But what made these men so extraordinary? And how did they become the men they were? Men of honor. Men you could trust. Men who practiced a dangerous profession. Men who dug coal from beneath a jealous mountain.

Part of the answer is where they lived. Look around you. This is a place where many lessons are learned, of true things that shape people as surely as rivers carve valleys, or rain melts mountains, or currents push apart the sea. Here, miners still walk with a trudging grace to and from vast, deep mines. And in the schools, the children still learn and the teachers teach, and, in snowy white churches built on hillside cuts, the preachers still preach, and God, who we have no doubt is also a West Virginian, still does his work, too. The people endure here as they always have for they understand that God has determined that there is no joy greater than hard work, and that there is no water holier than the sweat off a man's brow.

In such a place as this, a dozen men may die, but death can never destroy how they lived their lives, or why.

As I watched the events of this tragedy unfold, I kept being reminded of Coalwood, the mining town where I grew up. Back then, I thought life in that little town was pretty ordinary, even though nearly all the men who lived there worked in the mine and, all too often, some of them died or were hurt. My grandfather lost both his legs in the Coalwood mine and lived in pain until the day he died. My father lost the sight in an eye while trying to rescue trapped miners. After that he worked in the mine for fifteen more years. He died of black lung.

When I began to write my books about growing up in West Virginia, I was surprised to discover, upon reflection, that maybe it wasn't such an ordinary place at all. I realized that in a place where maybe everybody should be afraid-after all, every day the men went off to work in a deep, dark, and dangerous coal mine- instead they had adopted a philosophy of life that consisted of these basic attitudes:

We are proud of who we are. We stand up for what we believe. We keep our families together. We trust in God but rely on ourselves.

By adhering to these simple approaches to life, they became a people who were not afraid to do what had to be done, to mine the deep coal, and to do it with integrity and honor.

The first time my dad ever took me in the mine was when I was in high school. He wanted to show me where he worked, what he did for a living. I have to confess I was pretty impressed. But what I recall most of all was what he said to me while we were down there. He put his spot of light in my face and explained to me what mining meant to him. He said, "Every day, I ride the mantrip down the main line, get out and walk back into the gob and feel the air pressure on my face. I know the mine like I know a man, can sense things about it that aren't right even when everything on paper says it is. Every day there's something that needs to be done, because men will be hurt if it isn't done, or the coal the company's promised to load won't get loaded. Coal is the life blood of this country. If we fail, the country fails."

And then he said, "There's no men in the world like miners, Sonny. They're good men, strong men. The best there is. I think no matter what you do with your life, no matter where you go or who you know, you will never know such good and strong men."

Over time, though I would meet many famous people from astronauts to actors to Presidents, I came to realize my father was right. There are no better men than coal miners. And he was right about something else, too:

If coal fails, our country fails.

The American economy rests on the back of the coal miner. We could not prosper without him. God in His wisdom provided this country with an abundance of coal, and he also gave us the American coal miner who glories in his work. A television interviewer asked me to describe work in a coal mine and I called it "beautiful." He was astonished that I would say such a thing so I went on to explain that, yes, it's hard work but, when it all comes together, it's like watching and listening to a great symphony: the continuous mining machines, the shuttle cars, the roof bolters, the ventilation brattices, the conveyor belts, all in concert, all accomplishing their great task. Yes, it is a beautiful thing to see.

There is a beauty in anything well done, and that goes for a life well lived.

How and why these men died will be studied now and in the future. Many lessons will be learned. And many other miners will live because of what is learned. This is right and proper.

But how and why these men lived, that is perhaps the more important thing to be studied. We know this much for certain: They were men who loved their families. They were men who worked hard. They were men of integrity, and honor. And they were also men who laughed and knew how to tell a good story. Of course they could. They were West Virginians!

And so we come together on this day to recall these men, and to glory in their presence among us, if only for a little while. We also come in hope that this service will help the families with their great loss and to know the honor we wish to accord them.

No matter what else might be said or done concerning these events, let us forever be reminded of who these men really were and what they believed, and who their families are, and who West Virginians are, and what we believe, too.

There are those now in the world who would turn our nation into a land of fear and the frightened. It's laughable, really. How little they understand who we are, that we are still the home of the brave. They need look no further than right here in this state for proof.

For in this place, this old place, this ancient place, this glorious and beautiful and sometimes fearsome place of mountains and mines, there still lives a people like the miners of Sago and their families, people who yet believe in the old ways, the old virtues, the old truths; who still lift their heads from the darkness to the light, and say for the nation and all the world to hear:

We are proud of who we are.
We stand up for what we believe.
We keep our families together.
We trust in God.

We do what needs to be done.

We are not afraid.

[maxx]

"We are proud. etc." That's just the sort of tripe that is fed to poor ignorant people by big corporations and churches that both lived off the blood of those workers and that keeps them working in unsafe conditions. They might as well say that their lives aren't worth much, certainly not a decent air filtration system or breathing apparatus. And why bother to worry about such worldly matters when they're going to heaven. Hallelujah!

BTW, the mountains are hundreds of millions of years old at least.

[stipes]

"We are proud. etc." That's just the sort of tripe that is fed to poor ignorant people by big corporations and churches that both lived off the blood of those workers and that keeps them working in unsafe conditions. They might as well say that their lives aren't worth much, certainly not a decent air filtration system or breathing apparatus. And why bother to worry about such worldly matters when they're going to heaven. Hallelujah!

BTW, the mountains are hundreds of millions of years old at least.

I'm sorry you think that of my area I was born and grew up from...*We are proud* wasnt fed to anyone here by any corporations,,but from family and generations before us.Sometimes people forget their past history of how we become who we are, as in believing in whats right or wrong. Put in a good days work for a fair wage..Take care of family,, friends,,neighbors....
When a person grows up to become a honest man, woman, yes,,They should be proud.Never be ashamed of who they are, where they come from,
Back so many years ago there was men that worked the mines that died and crippled up for life,,,and if you take time and read some history about in West Virgina about Mingo County,and Blair mountain...You will understand how hard it was for the UMW to get established. Alot of men and women and children died for the cause to get a fair wage for a hard days work...
About religion,,I told ya I have my way of believing..You look all around of all the diffrent types of religion in this world, there is something to that my friend...Who kows who is right being a Baptist,,Jewish,,Muslim,,Budist, ect....Who know who is right, but my friend there is something inside of those that believe in something, Why do birds know when to fly south for the winter,butterflys too...Trees know when to turn and leaves fall and can you tell me trees know when spring is here and winter,,do they feel anything like we do? Sometimes we wanna try to explane why but we cant..
BTW, I know the mountains are millions years old, I can go on with a history lession of how the earth was made and how the earth crust was pushed together and blaa,,blaa blaa...Others knew what I ment so it is what it is..........
When I logged in there is something that haunts me Lowell wrote......
*What went wrong*
*How can we heal it*
*Where do we go from here*
Peace and love to all.....

[vetalalumni]

Didn't Ron Paul call Pat Buchanan his friend not long ago? Some Paul faithful have advocated Pat Buchanan for Paul's VP choice [[see dailypaul website).

Does anyone on DYes openly agree with or support Pat Buchanan? Step up.

Decades ago, it was said that blacks in the Deep South could not get justice from an all-white jury. In the film version of To Kill a Mockingbird, in which Gregory Peck stars as Atticus Finch, defending a black man falsely accused of the attempted rape of a white woman, the issue is dramatized. Considering the O. J. Simpson murder trial, prosecutors now concede it is much more difficult to convict even patently guilty black felons if they are tried before largely black juries. Race-based justice may be America's future [Page 158].

Where to begin?

1. "Decades ago" - long ago and not today
2. "it was said" - legitimacy placed in question, as in maybe untrue, as if this assertion is both without cited sources and was/is only a singular voice
3. "the issue is dramatized" - possibly exaggerated.

Then there is this:

1. "Considering the O. J. Simpson murder trial" - drawing upon white anger
2. "prosecutors now concede" - prosecutors are legitimate sources, in contrast to vagaries in item # 2 above
3. "it is much more difficult to convict even patently guilty black felons" - this is saying that justice allegedly withheld from blacks decades ago by whites, is today most certainly and regularly being withheld from whites by blacks
4. "Race-based justice may be America's future" - as if this terrible advent may be hoisted upon us and our children's children. As if it has not been fundamentally part of American history from its inception. As if.

Additionally, Pat Buchanan provided no scientific evidence to the above.

[stipes]

Didn't Ron Paul call Pat Buchanan his friend not long ago? Some Paul faithful have advocated Pat Buchanan for Paul's VP choice [[see dailypaul website).

Does anyone on DYes openly agree with or support Pat Buchanan? Step up.



Where to begin?

1. "Decades ago" - long ago and not today
2. "it was said" - legitimacy placed in question, as in maybe untrue, as if this assertion is both without cited sources and was/is only a singular voice
3. "the issue is dramatized" - possibly exaggerated.

Then there is this:

1. "Considering the O. J. Simpson murder trial" - drawing upon white anger
2. "prosecutors now concede" - prosecutors are legitimate sources, in contrast to vagaries in item # 2 above
3. "it is much more difficult to convict even patently guilty black felons" - this is saying that justice allegedly withheld from blacks decades ago by whites, is today most certainly and regularly being withheld from whites by blacks
4. "Race-based justice may be America's future" - as if this terrible advent may be hoisted upon us and our children's children. As if it has not been fundamentally part of American history from its inception. As if.

Additionally, Pat Buchanan provided no scientific evidence to the above.

Race...Now thats something that makes me so damn mad....here ,,yeah on this little part of Ky. Berea collage logo, saying I hold true.....* God has made of one blood all people of the earth*

[stipes]

Yes we are proud....................

Washington Monthly has named Berea College [[Kentucky) as the nation’s top liberal arts college in its 2011 College Rankings. Berea was ranked number one because of its success in educating and graduating academically talented, low-income students who become service-oriented leaders in their professions and communities.
Unlike other rankings that focus on what colleges do primarily for the good of individual students, Washington Monthly’s rankings focus on what colleges are doing for the good of the country through the way they educate their students. The publication measured three core metrics—social mobility [[admitting and graduating low-income students), research and Ph.D. production, and community service— to determine their rankings.
Washington Monthly’s editors state, “Higher education, after all, isn’t just important for undergraduates. We all benefit when colleges produce groundbreaking research that drives economic growth, when they offer students from low-income families the path to a better life, and when they shape the character of future leaders.”
Berea College President Larry D. Shinn says, “Given the current national conversation about the cost/value equation of higher education, it is particularly gratifying for Berea College not only that we are judged to be number one, but why we are number one in the Washington Monthly rankings. Many publications that rank colleges and universities use criteria that focus on student test scores, economic data, and peer surveys that tilt the ratings toward elite colleges of wealth. The Washington Monthly criteria that value social mobility, excellent education, and community service validate Berea’s mission to serve the public good by educating talented low-income students who become service-oriented leaders in Appalachia and beyond.”
Citing Berea’s mission to serve low-income students, Washington Monthly notes that 80 percent of Berea students receive federal Pell grants, “a level of student poverty that at other, lesser colleges and universities would result in graduation rates in the mid teens. At Berea, by contrast, nearly two-thirds of students graduate on time and a healthy number go on the earn PhDs.”
Joe Bagnoli, Berea’s dean of enrollment and academic services, states, “We have always served a diverse population of talented, low-income students from Appalachia and around the world by providing all of them with a four-year tuition scholarship. With nearly 50 percent of our graduates pursuing an advanced degree and 50 percent working in service-related occupations, Berea alumni are leaders in their professions and engaged citizens in their communities.”
The 2011 Washington Monthly CollegeRankings and guide will appear in the September/October issue of the printed magazine and online at http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/col..._arts_rank.php.
About Berea College
Berea College is distinctive among institutions of higher learning. Founded in 1855, Berea was the first interracial and coeducational college in the South. Berea awards four-year tuition scholarships to all its students, who because of financial circumstances cannot otherwise afford a high-quality, residential, liberal arts education.
All students are required to work at least 10 hours per week in campus and service jobs. Berea’s student labor program creates an atmosphere of democratic living that emphasizes the dignity of all work and provides opportunities for students to earn money for their rooms, books and board.
Alumni from Berea distinguish themselves and the college in many fields. Graduates include community leaders throughout the region, a Nobel Prize-winning chemist, a U.S. Cabinet Secretary, the inventor of touch screen technology, and other alumni who live out the college’s motto: “God has made of one blood all peoples of the earth.”

[Papasito]

......our social and moral compass in this country is usually judged by mentally ill religious folks who believe in imaginary creatures. I'm not really sure which is worse.

like six armed women, big fat golden men, and worship of a man who married a pre teen? yeah .. religion is pretty out of whack....

[maxx]

stipes:
So are you saying that most miners have college degrees? How does your post about Berea College relate to what I said about people being propagandized into thinking that they don't need or have a right to ask for protective gear when they mine?