Moving to Detroit from Sweden; any advice?

[jt1]

Yes, one can be happy in both in Inkster and in Birmingham, but, assuming one has options, it isn't unreasonable to consider one better than the other.

It is unreasonable to assume everyone wants exactly the same thing and that your choice of Birmingham is the perfect choice for everyone. Personally, I can easily afford to live in Birmingham however I would never chose to live there or raise kids in a community that, from my experience, is littered so many pretentious people that think they are better than everyone and raise their kids to believe that as well.

There is a right and wrong for everyone. Your right doesn't work for everyone.

[Bham1982]

People have commented a lot about the schools, and it's true that the overwhelming majority of Detroit's public schools are absolutely horrible, but there ARE a few schools which are genuinely good schools. If he lived in Lafayette Park the kids would go to Chrysler Elementary and would easily get into Cass Tech, and they would get a better education than most kids in the suburbs. Not better than a kid in Bloomfield, but it's still not a bad education.

I think this is debatable.

According to Schooldigger [[which compares test score performance), Chrysler Elementary [[which folks are repeatedly singling out as a top performing Detroit school) is very average relative to all schools statewide.

If Chrysler is only average statewide, it's probably considerably below-average compared to typical suburban districts.

It's also a relatively high poverty school with essentially no racial diversity. Given the poverty, one could argue it's extremely successful in comparison to similar schools [[high poverty African American).

But it's difficult to argue that Chrysler students perform as well as or better than the suburban schools.

Source-http://www.schooldigger.com/go/MI/sc...75/school.aspx

[Hypestyles]

Cornerstone schools are nice.. midtown, downtown, southwest detroit are burgeoning areas..

[Zeyrek]

After reading everyone's posts, I guess I would have to say I am feeling discouraged about moving to Detroit. In particular, I am worried about safety and whether my boys would be safe in a public school as they got older. I understand they would stand out as Swedes, but do you think they would have a tough time of it as they progressed into middle school and high school? [[they are currently 5 and 7.). Are there any issues with foreigners or foreign kids being mistreated?

[riviera]

What is your ethnic background? Bosnian? There are communities with higher numbers of ethnic children, for example polish around the Hamtramck area.

You would be better off with a private or religous based school if you live outside one of those areas.

A good place to start is the Swedish American association which someone else mentioned as they would know the best school for a Swedish family.

[redvetred]

Western Oakland County has a large number of Scandinavians located there. Check with the Swedish Club for more info:

www.swedishclub.net/

[Mikeg]

Western Oakland County has a large number of Scandinavians located there. Check with the Swedish Club for more info:

www.swedishclub.net/

Just because someone lives in Stockholm doesn't mean they are Scandinavian. By some estimates more than 20% of Stockholm's population is comprised of first and second generation immigrants from Eastern Europe and the Middle East.

[Zackdog]

Hmmm Zackdog. With all the red herrings and strawman arguments in that post, it is hard to know where to start.

Actually, the attitude underlying your belief that it is impossible to raise small children in Detroit is pretty offensive. From your post it is clear that you believe that it would not be prudent for a good parent in Detroit to allow their child to venture outside and, say, play with the neighbor kids like a suburban parent might. Because, you know, there really aren't any "Detroit" kids that a good parent would want their child playing with. That's why kids' activities for Detroit parents are limited to the event-type destinations [[zoo, auto show) you mentioned, right? Otherwise, you better stay inside and hunker down, right?

Oh yeah, and that bike riding point that you made is a good one too because even though the city has all those sidewalks that many of the suburbs lack, all of them without exception are littered with needles and condoms and the like, and a good parent can't have their kid encountering that. There's all that imminent danger constantly present in Detroit . Besides, the bike will get stolen immediately anyway. All of the "Detroit" kids that have bikes must have stolen them, right?

I have no idea whether you have ever raised a family in Detroit, but your arrogant dismissal of the possibility belies what countless families I personally know, including obviously mine, have experienced. [[And I'm referring to the present, not the Leave it to Beaver era.) I don't sport rose colored glasses either. I'm perfectly aware of the challenges and shortcomings of Detroit. Crime occurs far too often. A trip to the suburbs is too often necessary for retail needs. Fortunately, my family doesn't spend that much time buying shit. You know, it's not that much of a hardship to venture out to the Best Buy in suburbs every five years or so to buy a TV or a computer. Actually, I bought my last computer at the Staples in Detroit. [[Yes, there is one on E. Jefferson.)

Yes, the public schools are a problem. No kidding. But there are some excellent private and parochial school options in Detroit. Families don't have to go to the suburbs. But I'm the first to admit that if a family can't afford or is not interested in a private school education, choices in Detroit are extremely limited. But your "untrue and uninformed" post wasn't limited to this single issue.

Your point about the movies. Yes, there's no 25 screen multiplex in the city. And it would be nice to have more movie options in the city. But despite your disdain for the renovated facility at the Ren Cen, my kids have been dropped off there many times [[without the need for a tag-along adult when they got old enough) to see a flick. And then after the movie, they and their friends [[again without the helicopter parent) have enjoyed the non-suburban experience of actually using their feet to walk to Greektown to get some ice cream or pizza.

Doctor and dentist are south of Eight Mile too. And guess what, I haven't encountered a gunshot victim in my doctor's waiting room yet. Another thing, just so you know, last I checked, the city also had a couple of hospital choices other than Detroit Receiving [[with its world class Level I trauma center).

Zackdog, everybody in this region is aware of Detroit's serious shortcomings, but your conclusion that the city is completely unlivable and that families have to escape to the suburbs for all of their everyday needs and activities is plainly "untrue and uninformed." You contribute to the region's problems when you perpetuate your misguided myths.

I seriously doubt nor would anyone really recommend and the population exodus over the past ten years literally confirms that people don't want to raise their kids in Detroit, plain and simple. The city continues to contribute to it's own problems - do you like, NOT read the papers or watch the news? If you feel comfortable raising your kids in a city where you can't leave anything outside your house for 5 minutes without it getting stolen, then all the power to you.

I, for one, as well as probably 4.5 million other metro-Detroiters don't care to live in a city where one block is nice, surrounded by crap where you can't feel safe going to get a gallon of milk after 5 without carrying your gun and a can of pepper spray.

If you're a student or in the medical profession, then fine, live downtown or in midtown. If you have kids, then why would you want to given the choice? I know there are certain neighborhoods around that are nice, but seriously. And sidewalks? Have you seriously taken a good look at a lot of the weed-choked and broken and cracked sidewalks throughout the city that you can't walk on without tripping? Or perhaps seen the dumping grounds throughout the city? I'm not saying there aren't any decent, nice neighborhoods with good people living in them who aren't proud of where they live.

But I'll take good ol' suburbia any ol' time. At least I know my neighbor's kids aren't going to throw their fastfood packaging on my yard and there isn't going to be a wrecked and broken down car, boat, or motorhome sitting in the street for months at a time. My streetlights work, all the time. I don't hear loud rap music blasting at all hours of the night. My flower pots aren't taken off my front porch. None of the houses on my street, or neighborhood for that matter, are burnt out or boarded up. People trim their own bushes, lawns, and tree limbs and aren't hanging out on the front porch doing jack while their yard is in shambles.

I'm completely aware of our world class hospitals and could even rattle off their street addresses for you if I wanted.

So yea, I guess the city does have it's shortcomings. And no way in hell would I recommend ANYONE with small kids to move into the City of Detroit even if it would help it evolve.

btw, I've never had any problems or issues in the city at all, other than having my car broken into a couple of times back in the 80's, but you'd better pay that homeless guy to 'watch' your car while you go inside wherever you're going.

Can you honestly recommend to someone from Sweden with two small kids to move into Detroit and tell them it's a World Class city? Sure, after their bike gets stolen.

[epiphany]

After reading everyone's posts, I guess I would have to say I am feeling discouraged about moving to Detroit. In particular, I am worried about safety and whether my boys would be safe in a public school as they got older. I understand they would stand out as Swedes, but do you think they would have a tough time of it as they progressed into middle school and high school? [[they are currently 5 and 7.). Are there any issues with foreigners or foreign kids being mistreated?

Yes, it would be a serious concern, unfortunately. Detroit is a place where there is extreme racial tension.

[Zackdog]

After reading everyone's posts, I guess I would have to say I am feeling discouraged about moving to Detroit. In particular, I am worried about safety and whether my boys would be safe in a public school as they got older. I understand they would stand out as Swedes, but do you think they would have a tough time of it as they progressed into middle school and high school? [[they are currently 5 and 7.). Are there any issues with foreigners or foreign kids being mistreated?

Just because you're a family man, move to the suburbs of Oakland or Wayne Counties. You'll like it. You'll feel safe. Your family will like it. Your kids will be just fine. You'' find nice people throughout the metro area. The city just gets a bum rap. We all like our city, like it's history - esp. its automotive heritage and Motown Music, not to mention Faygo Pop and Better Made Chips. The Woodward Dream Cruise beats any automotive event in the world. And we LOVE our sports teams.

Give us a whirl. You'll like what you find.

[gazhekwe]

At least I know my neighbor's kids aren't going to throw their fastfood packaging on my yard.


As a suburban, I have to LOL at this notion. We have to pick up fastfood packaging on our street all the time. I carry two bags when walking my dog, one for trash and one for dog duty. I think there is not a whole lot of difference between people in the 'burbs and people in Detroit, at least most people have pretty much the same raison d'etre. There are varying levels of community awareness among people everywhere as well.

[Lowell]

After reading everyone's posts, I guess I would have to say I am feeling discouraged about moving to Detroit. In particular, I am worried about safety and whether my boys would be safe in a public school as they got older. I understand they would stand out as Swedes, but do you think they would have a tough time of it as they progressed into middle school and high school? [[they are currently 5 and 7.). Are there any issues with foreigners or foreign kids being mistreated?

As you can read Zeyrek, we are an international metropolitan area of five million struggling with many divisions. We fight among ourselves continually, argue for our communities and generally only come together on our sports teams.

The City of Detroit, at its core, can be challenging but has much to offer in proximity to art, culture and entertainment. When folks like you ask, I describe Detroit as a city of islands and if you know where those islands are and how to island hop, it is safe, exciting and enlightening. Many of those islands have been described above.

I don't know if your visa circumstances allow for it, but another option to consider is Windsor in Ontario. It is by far closer to downtown Detroit than any suburb, has relatively low crime rates [currently a run of no murders for over two years], has great culture, good schools and a sensational views of the Detroit skyline. Unfortunately there are no means of bicycling through the tunnel or across the bridge that connect it to Detroit. Once you cross though, you are in the heart of downtown Detroit.

The Detroit suburbs by contrast are rural, sleepy and generally bereft of culture. For the most part they are confederations of isolated subdivisions serviced by shopping malls surrounded by acres of parking lots.

Unless you get a place in the midst of one of our urban-sprawled old village centers, [Northville, Farmington, Romeo, Grosse Pointe, Plymouth, Birmingham, Wyandotte come to mind] you be in a faceless auto-dependent world. These will have the closest feel to the small Swedish cities and villages that I remember seeing. They have charming 19th century houses and storefronts and you will be able to walk or bike for almost all your needs, services, schools, churches, etc.

Outside of them, you will find almost no walkable services and even biking can be somewhere between dangerous and impossible, although the growth of bike routes has greatly improved in some area. If you don't live near one of those centers, you will starve to death without a car in most subdivisions, so prepare to get in your car for everything and slug it out in the daily commute on the expressways. Oh, yeah, your wife will need a car too and your kids when they get of age for one.

[shasha]

Hello Zeyrek,

Here is what I understand: you will be working downtown & have 2 young children. With that in mind, may I suggest the following inner-ring suburbs: Ferndale & Pleasant Ridge, both situated on the Woodward Avenue corridor. Every day my husband takes the bus [[run by SMART, not the city-owned bus) downtown, a short 20-25 minutes travel time, the buses run every 15 minutes during peak commuting hours. Most of the cultural amenities in the city are located on Woodward [[Institute of Arts, Historical museum, Orchestra Hall-symphony etc) & are accessible by this busline. Most suburbs, including these, have wonderful recreation leagues for children [[soccer, baseball, etc); Pleasant Ridge has an outdoor pool with childrens swimming lessons & swim teams in the summer, as well as a fitness center for adults. My block is full of children riding their bikes & playing outdoors. I can walk or bike for groceries [[to Ferndale or Royal Oak) or to the Saturday Farmers Market in Royal Oak. I can walk to several restaurants & coffees shops. As for safety - my house is never locked [[unless I am away for longer than a week-end, foolish I know) & I have never had a break-in. However, I am not up to date with the Ferndale school system [[of which Pleasant Ridge is a part of), I know that it has a very diverse student population, including a low income segment which makes some parents wary.
I lived in the city several years ago, but with children, this was the best decision for us.

[rjk]

Hello Zeyrek,

Here is what I understand: you will be working downtown & have 2 young children. With that in mind, may I suggest the following inner-ring suburbs: Ferndale & Pleasant Ridge, both situated on the Woodward Avenue corridor. Every day my husband takes the bus [[run by SMART, not the city-owned bus) downtown, a short 20-25 minutes travel time, the buses run every 15 minutes during peak commuting hours. Most of the cultural amenities in the city are located on Woodward [[Institute of Arts, Historical museum, Orchestra Hall-symphony etc) & are accessible by this busline. Most suburbs, including these, have wonderful recreation leagues for children [[soccer, baseball, etc); Pleasant Ridge has an outdoor pool with childrens swimming lessons & swim teams in the summer, as well as a fitness center for adults. My block is full of children riding their bikes & playing outdoors. I can walk or bike for groceries [[to Ferndale or Royal Oak) or to the Saturday Farmers Market in Royal Oak. I can walk to several restaurants & coffees shops. As for safety - my house is never locked [[unless I am away for longer than a week-end, foolish I know) & I have never had a break-in. However, I am not up to date with the Ferndale school system [[of which Pleasant Ridge is a part of), I know that it has a very diverse student population, including a low income segment which makes some parents wary.
I lived in the city several years ago, but with children, this was the best decision for us.

Off topic, but why wouldn't lock your doors?
I live in a relatively safe area myslef, but it only takes me a few seconds to lock my doors when I leave and unlock them when I come home. It's not like you have to go into your yard, cut down a tree branch and wedge it up against your door.

[Bham1982]

Just because someone lives in Stockholm doesn't mean they are Scandinavian. By some estimates more than 20% of Stockholm's population is comprised of first and second generation immigrants from Eastern Europe and the Middle East.

Ok, but those folks are still Scandanavians by most folks' accounts.

My parents are immigrants, but that doesn't mean I'm not American. National or regional identity is rarely restricted to a monocultural ethnic background.

[epiphany]

Hello Zeyrek,

Here is what I understand: you will be working downtown & have 2 young children. With that in mind, may I suggest the following inner-ring suburbs: Ferndale & Pleasant Ridge, both situated on the Woodward Avenue corridor. Every day my husband takes the bus [[run by SMART, not the city-owned bus) downtown, a short 20-25 minutes travel time, the buses run every 15 minutes during peak commuting hours. Most of the cultural amenities in the city are located on Woodward [[Institute of Arts, Historical museum, Orchestra Hall-symphony etc) & are accessible by this busline. Most suburbs, including these, have wonderful recreation leagues for children [[soccer, baseball, etc); Pleasant Ridge has an outdoor pool with childrens swimming lessons & swim teams in the summer, as well as a fitness center for adults. My block is full of children riding their bikes & playing outdoors. I can walk or bike for groceries [[to Ferndale or Royal Oak) or to the Saturday Farmers Market in Royal Oak. I can walk to several restaurants & coffees shops. As for safety - my house is never locked [[unless I am away for longer than a week-end, foolish I know) & I have never had a break-in. However, I am not up to date with the Ferndale school system [[of which Pleasant Ridge is a part of), I know that it has a very diverse student population, including a low income segment which makes some parents wary.
I lived in the city several years ago, but with children, this was the best decision for us.

That Woodward bus is being cut in December. Your husband will have to get off at the State Fair and catch a DDOT bus downtown starting in December.

But, I second living somewhere along the Woodward corridor [[outside fo Detroit.) Ferndale and even Royal Oak has some reasonable rent prices depending on where you look and they do have an abundance of coffee shops, restaurants, and are generally walkable compared to Detroit.

[Mikeg]

Ok, but those folks are still Scandanavians by most folks' accounts.

My parents are immigrants, but that doesn't mean I'm not American. National or regional identity is rarely restricted to a monocultural ethnic background.

The United States has experienced centuries of relatively peaceful immigration and is unique in the degree to which their immigrants have assimilated. Europe's history with immigration has been clouded by a certain country's need to create "living space" in eastern Europe without any attempts to assimilate with their neighbors. Following the post-WW II resettlement that undid several centuries worth of that "immigration", it's only been in the past 40 years or so where European countries have willingly embraced immigration and so far there's little evidence of assimilation either on the part of the immigrants or as a desired objective of the host countries.

Go ahead and argue semantics if you want, but I seriously doubt that someone who picked the ID being used by the original poster is going to want to drop by the "Swedish Club", unless they are already a member of that club and are attempting to pull a lot of legs!

[jolla]

Give up the idea of public school and then living in Detroit is possible.

[MizMotown]

the city? lol... don't!

[Dexlin]

the city? lol... don't!

Then change your name, sweetie, 'mkay? Thanks.

Zeyrek,

Just something I noticed since it seemed your main concern has changed since earlier in the thread. If your kids are pretty young, apart from having to adapt to a new situation, it shouldn't be your kids you should worry about. They are going to go through the normal adaptation of being from a different country regardless of whether they are schooled in Detroit or Birmingham. It's not the school situation I'd be worried about, rather, overall expectations of safety in your everyday life. Detroit proper has a relatively small immigrant population at the moment, but you've got Poles, and Iraqis and Mexicans, etc...that all fit in pretty quickly.

Your social adaptation and that of your kids shouldn't be much of an issue. Truth be told, Detroiters in social situations are extremely friendly, and I don't just say that as a homer. I've personally found Detroiters some of the most friendly and helpful folks around in social situations. If you let them, they will talk your ear off. They are genuinely tickled pink when someone has an interest in their city, especially someone as "exotic" as you will be. Again, the problems aren't going to come from your bank teller, or your kids classmates, or anything like that. Your potential problems -- if they come -- will come, unfortunately, from the the random criminals acts that are all too common in the city like your car getting stolen [[if you end up owning one), or being at the wrong place at the wrong time and getting mugged, or having your home burglarized, which is why I'd suggest that if you're going to buy or rent in the city you do it in a multi-unit/multi-family apartment or condo buildings where you have more eyes to watch your place [[and most of them have some level of security).

Again, don't worry about your kids fitting in; they'll be fine at school. That will be the least of your concerns, maybe both fortunately and unfortunately. Keep doing the research, and hopefully, we'll still see you in Detroit, just be mindful of the move you're making.

[epiphany]

Then change your name, sweetie, 'mkay? Thanks.

Zeyrek,

Just something I noticed since it seemed your main concern has changed since earlier in the thread. If your kids are pretty young, apart from having to adapt to a new situation, it shouldn't be your kids you should worry about. They are going to go through the normal adaptation of being from a different country regardless of whether they are schooled in Detroit or Birmingham. It's not the school situation I'd be worried about, rather, overall expectations of safety in your everyday life. Detroit proper has a relatively small immigrant population at the moment, but you've got Poles, and Iraqis and Mexicans, etc...that all fit in pretty quickly.

Your social adaptation and that of your kids shouldn't be much of an issue. Truth be told, Detroiters in social situations are extremely friendly, and I don't just say that as a homer. I've personally found Detroiters some of the most friendly and helpful folks around in social situations. If you let them, they will talk your ear off. They are genuinely tickled pink when someone has an interest in their city, especially someone as "exotic" as you will be. Again, the problems aren't going to come from your bank teller, or your kids classmates, or anything like that. Your potential problems -- if they come -- will come, unfortunately, from the the random criminals acts that are all too common in the city like your car getting stolen [[if you end up owning one), or being at the wrong place at the wrong time and getting mugged, or having your home burglarized, which is why I'd suggest that if you're going to buy or rent in the city you do it in a multi-unit/multi-family apartment or condo buildings where you have more eyes to watch your place [[and most of them have some level of security).

Again, don't worry about your kids fitting in; they'll be fine at school. That will be the least of your concerns, maybe both fortunately and unfortunately. Keep doing the research, and hopefully, we'll still see you in Detroit, just be mindful of the move you're making.

I disagree 100%. This should be what he is MOST concerned about. There WILL be problems unless they go to a private school. There are serious issues in Detroit and if his kids don't fit in, they will be messed with.

[stasu1213]

I would say take advantage of some of the low priced home in East English Village. The area that is closer to Mack Avenue instead of Harper Avenue. Residents who live in EEV closer to Mack has a little shopping area from Yorkshire to just east of Cadieux. There is even a Yorkshire Market on the Detroit side. Kroger in Grosse Pointe is just a couple of blocks down as well as new high school being constructed.

[KOMPOST]

I disagree 100%. This should be what he is MOST concerned about. There WILL be problems unless they go to a private school. There are serious issues in Detroit and if his kids don't fit in, they will be messed with.

Yep, just enroll 'em in a public school in the burbs and let all your worries melt away. It's like you won't even have to parent the little guys. All will be sunny and cheery. Nary a problem.

For the record, I'm not suggesting a move to Detroit proper nor am I promoting the suburbs [[though each will have it's own set of advantages and challenges), but I must say this thread is a hoot. Ethnocentrism at its embarrassing height.
Cheers and best of luck on your move.

[Lowell]

No matter where you choose to live, one big shock you can count on which will hit you immediately will be a good one. Just about everything, be it gasoline, housing prices, food prices, even a cup of Starbucks coffee will be half as expensive, if not more, than what it costs in Sweden. In fact it will be interesting to hear if you find anything that costs more.

[epiphany]

Yep, just enroll 'em in a public school in the burbs and let all your worries melt away. It's like you won't even have to parent the little guys. All will be sunny and cheery. Nary a problem.

For the record, I'm not suggesting a move to Detroit proper nor am I promoting the suburbs [[though each will have it's own set of advantages and challenges), but I must say this thread is a hoot. Ethnocentrism at its embarrassing height.
Cheers and best of luck on your move.

You are totally wrong. I never said that enrolling them in a suburban school will eliminate their problems. I have personally known people that have moved from overseas and enrolled in suburban schools and had an incredibly difficult time, but the schools in Detroit present problems all of their own, which are an addition to the problems that any new person might experience. Detroit Public Schools present problems for Detroiters. Your comment is ignorant and misinformed, and my attempt at trying to tell this person the truth for the sake of their children should not be seen as "ethnocentric."