Moving to Detroit from Sweden; any advice?

[canuck]

If the OP wanted to move to a european city he would do just that. Detroit is what it is with all its faults and all its glory. I would be worried about safety first, walkability to amenities second. But his experience of swedish urban life and his input could certainly be part of the solution, dont drive him away to Charlotte...

[epiphany]

I can view this as a glass-half-full situation.


Don't know when or where that was said, but that's obviously not an accurate description of the entire city. I don't fault you for not doing research though.

Well there's your problem. OP won't be moving to Warrendale. More than likely he'll be moving Downtown. If he wants to live close to where he works, why the hell would he move to Warrendale? Is a magical unicorn going to pick him up? He stated that he wanted to be at least reasonable biking distance from where he'll be working. Yea lemme just take a poll on how many people in Detroit bike 10 Miles to work everyday. I wanna meet these people and find out how we all can be like them.

I question whether or not your glasses are fogged or only looking at the thorns. There's more misinformation coming from one-sided opinions from no fault of the entire city.

Your environment doesn't fit your needs but your entire environment is not Detroit. It's Warrendale. If Warrendale doesn't fit your needs, move to another part of town whether it be Detroit or some other city. If you can't move then work with whatcha got and buy something that'll help you get around better, whether it be a bike or a car. If you can't do that and can't depend on the bus, well then you have a valid point in saying that Warrendale is not the appropriate area for OP to look in to. But Warrendale is not representative of all of Detroit. And any person who says any one neighborhood ​is representative of all of Detroit is being misleading, and their opinion should only reflect that neighborhood and those listening should take it as such.

I'll now return to my unrealistic world view where unicorns roam the sky...

Who on earth said that I was basing my opinion on my experience of living in Warrendale? I truly appreciate your ability to put words into my mouth, but this is not what I said.

Let me make something clear. I have lived ALL OVER Detroit. I first lived Downtown, and frankly I felt that downtown was boring, with few "real city" amenities outside of the venues... and safety is an issue there, too. I moved from downtown to SW Detroit for this reason. After living in SW Detroit, I moved to the area around WSU. After moving into my apartment complex, the apartment manager was brutally murdered and stabbed multiple times in the apartment directly next to mine. One day, I was waiting on a bus in the WSU area and two dudes tried to pull me into their car. This happened TWICE.

I moved to Hamtramck. It definitely felt safer because of the seemingly omnipresent police, but if I had kids I still wouldn't want them running around by themselves. Things didn't work out with my roommates, so I moved to the Morningside neighborhood. That was a bloody freaking mistake. Again, some dudes tried to pull me into their car. One day, I was walking off of the bus and I was mugged for some pocket change. There was the constant sound of gunfire and one morning when I was walking to the bus I accidentally stepped on a pool of blood that was left in the sidewalk. Sound safe?

I got the hell out of there and moved to the West side. AT ONE TIME, I felt safe walking around there and to and from the bus stop, to the various middle eastern markets, etc. I used to walk or ride my bike to the fruit market on Warren fairly regularly, and I did this by myself... but man, things have really went downhill in Warrendale in a short period of time. The rest of Detroit is no exception. There may be more development happening around WSU/Downtown, but I actually feel less safe around here than EVER before. Multiple students have been robbed at gunpoint, etc. and I get the look from people constantly that they give people when they are thinking about trying to pull some shit, mug them, etc. I am frequently in Midtown and Downtown late at night waiting on buses or whatever and it doesn't make me feel the least bit comfortable. I CONSTANTLY have to watch my back. If you call that safe, then you are living in a dreamworld, dude. Sorry.

I felt safest living in SW Detroit, but even that area has seen a RAPID increase in crime.

Don't lie to the guy. Why do you feel so great about misleading someone? I would feel like I was doing this guy a disservice if I told him that everything was just grand in Detroit because no matter where you are, thats bullshit.I am simply telling the truth and being realistic. Sorry if that bothers so many people, but this is advice coming from someone that has lived in ALL areas of Detroit from the worst to some of the better.

[mwilbert]

I think Zeyrek should come to Detroit. It is a very interesting place, and one of its biggest problems is lack of employment opportunities, which isn't relevant in his case. I just don't want him to come with unrealistic expectations, end up in a situation he didn't anticipate, and wish he were back in Sweden a month later.

I think the people on this thread have been trying to be helpful, and I'm sure it has given him something to think about. Detroiters do tend to be helpful; that is one of the good things about the area. But I find it hard to imagine someone could come from Sweden to Detroit and not experience some significant culture shock. He and his wife need to be prepared. If he could come for a visit before committing to a move, that might be a good idea. Maybe django could show him around.

[Zackdog]

And what exactly would a person with 2 small children do in Detroit if they weren't attending a sporting or cultural event? Riverwalk? Not every day and not from October thru April. Out to eat? Once in awhile but gets expensive with 2 small kids. Biking? Where? In the street? The Zoo is in the suburbs. The Auto Show? That's only once a year. Shopping for kids clothes? Suburbs. Movies? Ren Cen in 35 year old theaters or the suburbs? Dentist? Suburbs. Doctor? Detroit Receiving? Nope, suburbs. After school activities? Right. Will they be able to park their car in the street and still have it be there and in the same condition the next morning? Will they feel safe? What if they need EMS? Or the Police for that matter? In the suburbs they're at your door in 5 minutes. In Detroit you're lucky they show up at all. Maybe you should show them that map that was in the Free Press a week or so ago that showed where the 3300 murders took place over the last 10 years - looked VERY spread out throughout the entire city to me. No neighborhood was immune unless it was mostly abandoned like by the old Tiger Stadium area or Del Ray. Littering is everywhere. Homeless are everywhere.

So what is untrue and uninformed?

[Zackdog]

Wow. What an amazingly untrue and uninformed statement.

That last message was for you.

[kryptonite]

Wow, Zackdog, you nailed it. Much of what you and Epiphany have posted was my experience over the 20+ years I lived in various Detroit neighborhoods.

Morningside and Palmer Park were my worst experiences regarding crime. Woodbridge and Six Mile/Telegraph I did not find to be as bad. Having spent too much time with a gun to my head by teenages *ssholes and one break-in and one attempted break-in I finally decided Morningside was a nieghborhood I had to leave. That does not even start to include the break-ins, car thefts, gunfights, etc. that happened on my block alone.

Part of me hates to post such information because I still love Detroit and spend a good deal of time doing things in Detroit. I have moved back to Detroit twice from other states and am still happy that I did. But this is not Oz, this is Detroit and it is neither Heaven or Hell.

[ndavies]

Zeryek, Take the job. The change of cultures will do you and your family good. However, Be prepared to change the way you live. The Detroit metro region has 4 million people living here. Less than 25% of the regions population lives in the city of Detroit. Many of the inner ring suburbs were cities long before Detroit sprawled and they became suburbs of Detroit. There are many inner ring suburbs that are fully functional cities with nice walkable downtowns. They have safety records that rival cities in Sweden. They have excellent school systems.

In a region this large, You will find a place for your family to be safe and comfortable. That place may be the city of Detroit. Just make sure you understand your families needs and the limitations of the places you're looking to live in.

[mpow]

I have a feeling you are going to love Detroit and your act to want to live in the city is a symbol of a positive act and should be encouraged.

Really, it is all about your frame of mind how you approach and how you may "feel" in this city. Everyone is different.

Lowell had some good advice.

I would also recommend Academy of the Americas in Southwest Detroit for a school choice. Biking to downtown from Corktown would be a great option and is also in walking distance.

Don't let the negative commentary fluster you in a decision. It is possible to have one of the most fulfilling, unique and passionate city experiences in Detroit, equal to no other city in the United States.

Good Luck!

[kryptonite]

Zeyrek, maybe you have already read this link, but I think it gives you some great information about the positive features of the city. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit

[Islandman]

I really think the OP needs to come take a visit.

Seriously, if I had the option of living in Sweden vs. anywhere in Michigan, I'd stay in Sweden. Especially with kids. Just being honest. You simply cannot compare the quality of life on any level.

[iheartthed]

Another note: Detroit is for the most part not a 24-hour city. Many of the grocery stores close around 8pm, although there's some in Hamtramck that stay open later til like midnight. Things have shorter hours on Sunday. We were a French city after all. We still have some of that mentality.

Seems like Detroit's a pretty late operating city by European standards... Even the major cities like London and Paris have shut down by midnight, whereas in Detroit you'll still find restaurants serving food then.

[Autoracks]

yea man. If you have kids and uh... their learning to read and write is important to you. hmm... Ok. Its like this. Statistics would suggest DPS isn't the best place to receive an education. The capabilities of the class are going to have an impact on the education your kids will receive. Say its a fourth grade class where many of the students read at a second grade level or cant read at all. Teacher has to teach to the level of the class. Its hard to blame the kids, a lot of whom have all sorts of problems at home or the teachers who understandably burn out fast. May want to take advice i read in a post north of mine and consider Royal Oak or Bham. Midtown is great for a young single professional or a student. Same with Corktown and Woodbridge. These neighborhoods are far from immune from crime tho however. However accustomed you feel you may be to "city life" City of Detroit city life is different. All the problems of a big city but few of the conveniences. [[this is starting to change a little) Plus some parts of Detroit are more rural than suburban or urban. Good luck tho. I dont mean by this to take cheap shots at Detroit. Its just not a realistic place for people with kids

[buzzman0077]

From the list of requirements I would agree that Lafeyette park would be the best fit. Just moved to the neighborhood and found that Lafeyette Foods has a good selections and is definitly walkable and right next to Crysler Elementary which backs up to a large park making it walkable from most of the neighborhood and especially from the townhomes. Less than half mile walk into greektown, which with the people mover stop opens up all of downtown. Easy bike ride to midtown and the cultural center.

[DanFromDetroit]

Tjena Tjena! I used to live in Västerås - so I know a fair amount about how difficult this transition will be. First off, I haven't read the entire thread but your companies location is key. If you're with ABB or Atlas Capco? [[just a guess) and they're located in Auburn Hills I would highly recommend Oakland County as opposed to commuting from downtown everyday. If you're used to walkable places for going out in the evening I would recommend Royal Oak or Birmingham even though they would be more expensive than other locations. The biggest difference between here and Sweden is that we drive EVERYWHERE. No one walks or bikes compared to anywhere in Europe. If you're job is located downtown then there are a lot of areas that no doubt have been covered, Corktown, Midtown, Indian Village etc. I also love the suburb Grosse Pointe - safe and quiet right on the water with some walkable areas but close enough to Detroit that the commute is negligible [[and the parks are amazing). Welcome to the area - don't forget how great it will be to watch the Red Wings and all the other NHL teams that come to town.

[swingline]

And what exactly would a person with 2 small children do in Detroit if they weren't attending a sporting or cultural event? Riverwalk? Not every day and not from October thru April. Out to eat? Once in awhile but gets expensive with 2 small kids. Biking? Where? In the street? The Zoo is in the suburbs. The Auto Show? That's only once a year. Shopping for kids clothes? Suburbs. Movies? Ren Cen in 35 year old theaters or the suburbs? Dentist? Suburbs. Doctor? Detroit Receiving? Nope, suburbs. After school activities? Right. Will they be able to park their car in the street and still have it be there and in the same condition the next morning? Will they feel safe? What if they need EMS? Or the Police for that matter? In the suburbs they're at your door in 5 minutes. In Detroit you're lucky they show up at all. Maybe you should show them that map that was in the Free Press a week or so ago that showed where the 3300 murders took place over the last 10 years - looked VERY spread out throughout the entire city to me. No neighborhood was immune unless it was mostly abandoned like by the old Tiger Stadium area or Del Ray. Littering is everywhere. Homeless are everywhere.

So what is untrue and uninformed?

Hmmm Zackdog. With all the red herrings and strawman arguments in that post, it is hard to know where to start.

Actually, the attitude underlying your belief that it is impossible to raise small children in Detroit is pretty offensive. From your post it is clear that you believe that it would not be prudent for a good parent in Detroit to allow their child to venture outside and, say, play with the neighbor kids like a suburban parent might. Because, you know, there really aren't any "Detroit" kids that a good parent would want their child playing with. That's why kids' activities for Detroit parents are limited to the event-type destinations [[zoo, auto show) you mentioned, right? Otherwise, you better stay inside and hunker down, right?

Oh yeah, and that bike riding point that you made is a good one too because even though the city has all those sidewalks that many of the suburbs lack, all of them without exception are littered with needles and condoms and the like, and a good parent can't have their kid encountering that. There's all that imminent danger constantly present in Detroit . Besides, the bike will get stolen immediately anyway. All of the "Detroit" kids that have bikes must have stolen them, right?

I have no idea whether you have ever raised a family in Detroit, but your arrogant dismissal of the possibility belies what countless families I personally know, including obviously mine, have experienced. [[And I'm referring to the present, not the Leave it to Beaver era.) I don't sport rose colored glasses either. I'm perfectly aware of the challenges and shortcomings of Detroit. Crime occurs far too often. A trip to the suburbs is too often necessary for retail needs. Fortunately, my family doesn't spend that much time buying shit. You know, it's not that much of a hardship to venture out to the Best Buy in suburbs every five years or so to buy a TV or a computer. Actually, I bought my last computer at the Staples in Detroit. [[Yes, there is one on E. Jefferson.)

Yes, the public schools are a problem. No kidding. But there are some excellent private and parochial school options in Detroit. Families don't have to go to the suburbs. But I'm the first to admit that if a family can't afford or is not interested in a private school education, choices in Detroit are extremely limited. But your "untrue and uninformed" post wasn't limited to this single issue.

Your point about the movies. Yes, there's no 25 screen multiplex in the city. And it would be nice to have more movie options in the city. But despite your disdain for the renovated facility at the Ren Cen, my kids have been dropped off there many times [[without the need for a tag-along adult when they got old enough) to see a flick. And then after the movie, they and their friends [[again without the helicopter parent) have enjoyed the non-suburban experience of actually using their feet to walk to Greektown to get some ice cream or pizza.

Doctor and dentist are south of Eight Mile too. And guess what, I haven't encountered a gunshot victim in my doctor's waiting room yet. Another thing, just so you know, last I checked, the city also had a couple of hospital choices other than Detroit Receiving [[with its world class Level I trauma center).

Zackdog, everybody in this region is aware of Detroit's serious shortcomings, but your conclusion that the city is completely unlivable and that families have to escape to the suburbs for all of their everyday needs and activities is plainly "untrue and uninformed." You contribute to the region's problems when you perpetuate your misguided myths.

[Magnatomicflux]

Not to take anything from Detroit, but if it's not too
Much of a hassle paperwork-wise......maybe he should
Just move to Windsor. Crime.....violent crime anyways
Is on the low side [[no homicides for two years now).
Decent public schools, everything is in biking distance,
60 someodd kms of bike trails, and you can get way more house
For your money.

[animatedmartian]

Why do you feel so great about misleading someone? I would feel like I was doing this guy a disservice if I told him that everything was just grand in Detroit because no matter where you are, thats bullshit.I am simply telling the truth and being realistic.

Eh. I understand where you're coming from. I wasn't trying to mislead him and I never said Detroit was a rosy city.

I just never thought of LP and Downtown as a risky place to live and I don't see how that isn't as good as an option as the suburbs. And when I say risky, I know it means there's always a possibility of him being affected by crime. But it also means there's a chance he won't be a affected by it. I'm more optimistic he won't be affected by it in his time living here.

I'll admit I probably over stepped my bounds and bashed you because I thought you were discouraging him from living in the city or at least LP. But overall I don't think I'm unrealistic in my viewpoints.

[Bham1982]

Actually, the attitude underlying your belief that it is impossible to raise small children in Detroit is pretty offensive.

No one has said or even implied this.

Obviously one can successfully/happily raise small children anywhere. There are examples of wonderful, thriving families from Highland Park to Bloomfield Hills.

I thought the thread was centered arround choosing "the best" areas for the circumstances described.

Yes, one can be happy in both in Inkster and in Birmingham, but, assuming one has options, it isn't unreasonable to consider one better than the other.

[davewindsor]

Not to take anything from Detroit, but if it's not too
Much of a hassle paperwork-wise......maybe he should
Just move to Windsor. Crime.....violent crime anyways
Is on the low side [[no homicides for two years now).
Decent public schools, everything is in biking distance,
60 someodd kms of bike trails, and you can get way more house
For your money.

I love Detroit for the architecture and history, but I would not recommend to anyone anymore to live in WIndsor and work in Detroit. I don't even think he qualifies for a nexus pass being neither a Canadian or US Citizen.

The more times I visit Detroit, the more times they send me to be searched even though I've never been caught smuggling anything and my record's squeaky clean. That border checkpoint is so retarded and arbitrary. I've even been detained for over an hour taking the tunnel bus onto the Detroit side because the border lady had a chip on her shoulder. I was polite. I said nothing out of the line. There was absolutely no grounds for it. And then there's the wait in line with the car all the way to the other end of the tunnel because they are doing it to everyone. Then another day I come back and get searched in the Canadian side.

I used to go to Detroit all the time. Now I've cut down those visits significantly because of that arbitrary border crossing that lets them detain everybody for hours for no damn valid reason. I'm completely fed up with border security. 9/11 was over a decade ago. Osama and Gadaffi are dead. Get over it. They could start treating people like human beings now. It's not like a terrorist would get very far anyway with half the city packing a pistol, and why would they smuggle it from Canada through Windsor instead of a shipping container directly from China? It's just ridiculous.

[Bham1982]

Oh yeah, and that bike riding point that you made is a good one too because even though the city has all those sidewalks that many of the suburbs lack,

It's true that the city has almost 100% sidewalk coverage, but IMO it's a bit misleading. Even forgetting about their relative condition, the presence of sidewalks doesn't necessarily imply walkability.

Example- SW Detroit has 100% sidewalks, is relatively dense, and has lots of street-level retail. But it isn't remotely pedestrian-friendly, IMO. I have explored SW Detroit by foot, and I won't do it any longer. I would rather try to walk through Troy.

SW Detroit homes are built right to the street, and folks chain their dogs to the front gate. The dogs can reach the sidewalk and bite pedestrians. There are also numerous strays, and they are aggressive.

In addition, SW Detroit homes don't have driveways. Folks park on the street or turn their back yards into driveways [[through the alley). This means that you're blocked from walking in the street, which forces you to encounter the dogs and [[often unruly) folks hanging out on their stoops. There is also lots of wild moped/scooter riding directly on the sidewalk.

Then add in the frequent burned out/abandoned homes, obvious gang activity, lack of working street lights, no police presence, and you don't have a pleasant, safe or convenient pedestrian environment, especially for ladies or children.

[brizee]

And what exactly would a person with 2 small children do in Detroit if they weren't attending a sporting or cultural event? Riverwalk? Not every day and not from October thru April. Out to eat? Once in awhile but gets expensive with 2 small kids. Biking? Where? In the street? The Zoo is in the suburbs. The Auto Show? That's only once a year. Shopping for kids clothes? Suburbs. Movies? Ren Cen in 35 year old theaters or the suburbs? Dentist? Suburbs. Doctor? Detroit Receiving? Nope, suburbs. After school activities? Right. Will they be able to park their car in the street and still have it be there and in the same condition the next morning? Will they feel safe? What if they need EMS? Or the Police for that matter? In the suburbs they're at your door in 5 minutes. In Detroit you're lucky they show up at all. Maybe you should show them that map that was in the Free Press a week or so ago that showed where the 3300 murders took place over the last 10 years - looked VERY spread out throughout the entire city to me. No neighborhood was immune unless it was mostly abandoned like by the old Tiger Stadium area or Del Ray. Littering is everywhere. Homeless are everywhere.

So what is untrue and uninformed?

Drive down West McNichols and tell me there's no doctors or dentists in this city. Or Puritan and Ilene. Or any other goddamn number of local doctors and dentists and other medical facilities all over this town.

Go to Adams Butzel on Lyndon ANY time of day and tell me how many kids you don't see swimming or boxing, or playing hoops.


Or don't seeing as how you might fall over all the homeless people.

That horseshit you just plopped on this forum was dishonest.

This city has some major fucking problems with some weak leadership. It's probably 60-40 bad areas to good. But don't spread misinformation.

And to the OP, I live on Ilene north of the lodge near Marygrove College. It's a pretty decent neighboorhood. I've seen some worrying signs but it's still holding on. Some pretty nice neighboorhoods close by are University District near UDM and the area bordered by Mcnichols and 7 Mile and Wyoming and Livernois. Bates Academy is near and I heard they're supposed to be decent.

My sister just moved to North Rosedale Park. And the neighboorhood is beautiful. Niece just started Detroit Edison Public. No idea of it's quality.

Wherever you choose bring some positivity. This areas doesn't export cars anymore we produce bitching complaining bellyaching and fingerpointing.

PS Yes that last comment is ironic as hell. Waddayawant I've been here my whole life.

[gazhekwe]

Zeyrek, when you speak of biking to work, where is it that you will be working? That is important when picking a neighborhood for safe commuting with your bike. Also, you might want to explore what is offered by the company as far as bike storage while you are at work.

There are a lot of good comments about different neighborhoods. One question that came to me as I was weighing the merits -- How old are your children and what kind of activities are they used to in the neighborhood. Do they like to play outside? Do you or your wife prefer to be with them or let them play by themselves sometimes? Some areas have more opportunities for kids than others.

[iheartthed]

I love Detroit for the architecture and history, but I would not recommend to anyone anymore to live in WIndsor and work in Detroit. I don't even think he qualifies for a nexus pass being neither a Canadian or US Citizen.

The more times I visit Detroit, the more times they send me to be searched even though I've never been caught smuggling anything and my record's squeaky clean. That border checkpoint is so retarded and arbitrary. I've even been detained for over an hour taking the tunnel bus onto the Detroit side because the border lady had a chip on her shoulder. I was polite. I said nothing out of the line. There was absolutely no grounds for it. And then there's the wait in line with the car all the way to the other end of the tunnel because they are doing it to everyone. Then another day I come back and get searched in the Canadian side.

I used to go to Detroit all the time. Now I've cut down those visits significantly because of that arbitrary border crossing that lets them detain everybody for hours for no damn valid reason. I'm completely fed up with border security. 9/11 was over a decade ago. Osama and Gadaffi are dead. Get over it. They could start treating people like human beings now. It's not like a terrorist would get very far anyway with half the city packing a pistol, and why would they smuggle it from Canada through Windsor instead of a shipping container directly from China? It's just ridiculous.

I have to cosign. I get treated better both by the TSA at the airport and by customs agents in the airport than I do by the customs agents at the Detroit-Windsor border.

[Jason]

People have commented a lot about the schools, and it's true that the overwhelming majority of Detroit's public schools are absolutely horrible, but there ARE a few schools which are genuinely good schools. If he lived in Lafayette Park the kids would go to Chrysler Elementary and would easily get into Cass Tech, and they would get a better education than most kids in the suburbs. Not better than a kid in Bloomfield, but it's still not a bad education.

[jt1]

And what exactly would a person with 2 small children do in Detroit if they weren't attending a sporting or cultural event? Riverwalk? Not every day and not from October thru April. Out to eat? Once in awhile but gets expensive with 2 small kids. Biking? Where? In the street? The Zoo is in the suburbs. The Auto Show? That's only once a year. Shopping for kids clothes? Suburbs. Movies? Ren Cen in 35 year old theaters or the suburbs? Dentist? Suburbs. Doctor? Detroit Receiving? Nope, suburbs. After school activities? Right. Will they be able to park their car in the street and still have it be there and in the same condition the next morning? Will they feel safe? What if they need EMS? Or the Police for that matter? In the suburbs they're at your door in 5 minutes. In Detroit you're lucky they show up at all. Maybe you should show them that map that was in the Free Press a week or so ago that showed where the 3300 murders took place over the last 10 years - looked VERY spread out throughout the entire city to me. No neighborhood was immune unless it was mostly abandoned like by the old Tiger Stadium area or Del Ray. Littering is everywhere. Homeless are everywhere.

So what is untrue and uninformed?

GIve me a break. What is uninformed is your post. So let's go through them one by one:

1. What to do with the kids. Well, if they choose Lafayette park there is the park, the Dequindre cut, eastern marker, the riverwalk. Biking is great in all the places I just listed. Let's continue looking at the items:

- Riverwalk: Certainly enjoyable October thru April. You know, there are things like gloves, coats, etc.
- Eating out? Pointless argument as the options are plentiful but it is no different than living in the burbs, if they choose to cook at home it is no different.
- The zoo is in the suburbs and a short drive [[just like people in most suburbs as well). There is also the DIA, DHS, Campus Martius, CWMAAH, Children's Museum. Just a ridiculous argument.
- Shopping for kids clothes. Possible suburbs but most people in the suburbs drive to malls. It's not as if there is shopping within walking distance of most people's homes. Completely irrelevant point.
- Movies: Maybe the Ren Cen or Fairlane. Just as close as a mall is to most people.
- Dentist: My dentist is in the city, close to LP and is great.
- Doctor: Detroit has plentiful options beyond DR. I would say that living near downtown actually offer more options in close proximity. That includes specialists and top doctors for thos insured.

Your lack of knowledge on what is available in the city is pretty apparaent. It's also comical that you seem to think the ameneties you listed are just a short walk from most suburbanites homes.

Overall, it's clear you have no idea what you are talking about. I'm curious if you have kids. If so, let's hear all these wonderful options for them that don't require you to drive.