Moving to Detroit from Sweden; any advice?

[davewindsor]

The Original poster is moving his family to the other side of the world. He is already taking on a huge amount of risk. The man is expecting a European city. Detroit is nowhere near functional enough to come close to his expectations. The inner ring suburbs are the closest thing the metro region has to what he's looking for.

If he were coming alone I would wish him the best of luck with his choices. Bringing his family in is a completely different story. There is a reason 99% of the hipster move out of the city as soon as they have kids. They all come in with the best of intentions and then the day to day aggravation takes it's toll. They move back to the suburbs they came from.

As someone who has made a similar move from Europe, I came from the UK, I know he's going to find Detroit severely lacking in the things he needs. What happens if he moves his family to the city and they find they are not safe here. How long do you think he will remain in the country, let alone the city?

Well, I'm sure glad that the engineering company that's offering these high paying jobs and recruiting him had enough faith in the city to open up shop in downtown instead of Troy.

And, I'm sure that a better paying job had a lot to do with his decision to move to another country. I don't know if hipsters are in the same category, i.e, making the kind of money that would motivate someone to move to another country, and that might play a role in why hipsters don't stick around in the city. There is a reward to the risk and I'm sure he's figured that out or he wouldn't be leaving his home country with his family.

[ColonelMack]

Zeyrek,
I am not sure you understand the scale of our area. If top priority is biking to work you need to start with locales around your workplace. From one side of our metro area [[including suburbs) to the other can be as long as an hour-and-a-half in a car. It is highly impractical to choose a neighborhood based on amenities, if it is too far from your workplace to bike, which appears to be a primary goal of yours. I will also note, it is difficult if not impossible to bike in the winter. We get decent amount of snow, and it will remain cold for extended periods of time, so the snow pushed on the side of the road gets slushy then icy. Stockholm is far north like Detroit, but it's winter climate is moderated by the seas surrounding it, you will find Detroit Winters much more difficult to navigate.
Also please note, no matter how politically incorrect it may be to state this, Detroit Schools are generally sub-par, and as a parent I warn you that your children will have a very difficult time, and probably not learn as they should in most city schools. In the US the schools are generally controlled by the local cities, and vary in quality from city to city. Do some research to make sure you find a district that is good for your children. No amount of cool urban vibe can make up for your children not receiving a good educations.
Many on this board are more interested in pushing their agenda of urban living than listening to your question and advising you on your specific issue [[nothing wrong with that, that is what this board is about, but there is also nothing wrong with me pointing that out, and advising him with what I believe is info relative to his situation)

[mwilbert]

There's a relatively small group of families living and public-schooling in Detroit that know which few schools are the good ones, on par with the better suburban schools. Those schools are good because the self-selection process ensures that 95% of the parents are doing what they should do with respect to educating their kids. They're doing it, it's possible, you just have to hook into the educationally-minded Detroiter network and you'll figure out how it can be done.

Might it not be somewhat difficult for someone to come from another country and hook into this network that the vast majority of people in Detroit seem not to be part of? I know there are pockets of functionality within the morass of the DPS, but it might be asking a lot of a newcomer to find them and get his children enrolled in them. Anyway, perhaps that will work for him, and there are certainly other school options for people living in the city as well.

[boneshaker]

This tread is actually quite tragic. We have a good intended person wishing to live in the City of Detroit who happens to be clueless of the current situation here.This reminds me of my childhood friend from the east side of Detroit who married an Australian woman in 1970 and didnt return to Detroit until 2010. When I asked my friend if he was going to rent a car during his stay, he responded.. "oh we'll just ride the bus to get around"...... obviously the bus system in 1970 is quite different than in 2010. My friend, got a quick update in the D 2010 style.... Much to his dismay he left a broken man....

[Jason]

Lafayette Park is close to downtown, family friendly, and your kids can go to good public schools. It's within walking distance to Greektown, which is a restraunt district, and where there is also a People Mover [[a short loop of elevated rail) station which would take you further downtown. But even though it's within walking distance the walk won't be as pleasant as you'd hope. Most of your walk would be parking lots/garages, and a freeway overpass [[and maybe a homeless guy). Once you get past that, downtown is more pedestrian friendly but there still isn't a strong pedestrian culture downtown, although it's improving.

Midtown has a stronger pedestrian culture, and you could walk to cafes and some stores. You would also be able to walk to a lot of cultural institutions and events. The area you would be living in is mostly inhabited by college students, and even though it's safe in general, I don't think you would want to let your kids go outside alone.

Indian Village is farther away from downtown but you could still bike there. The houses are nice. But there aren't school situation is difficult there. I think families there have to drive their kids to different neighborhoods to go to ok schools. There's also nowhere to walk to.

Palmer Woods is basically a lesser version of Oakland County, except within Detroit and a little closer to downtown.

Oakland County has very good schools and is safe. But it's very suburban. Scattered throughout the county are "downtowns", but they are token downtowns that are there either so that old people can have a "quaint" and "traditional" setting for their boutique shops, or so that there can be an "urban" area for college kids to have bars and clubs. But even though they look urban they don't function urban in any meaningful way. Oakland County can be a very nice place to live but it doesn't match the lifestyle you're describing at all.


So I would recommend looking into Lafayette Park. It will be a downgrade from Stockholm, but Stockholm is such a nice city and Sweden has such a high quality of life that moving almost anywhere else in the world would be a downgrade.

[Detroit_uke]

Welcome! Moving from one city to the next is hard...I can't imagine moving to another country. There is a Swedish Club of Metro Detroit. I just found it on the web. Missed their fried herring dinner...gosh darn. They may be able to help...I'm sure many are "transplants" themselves. Good luck to you!

[GoGrixdale]

How much you are willing to assimilate, tolerate or work to change is key.

If you’re not comfortable with a range of ethnic dynamics and socioeconomic situations be honest with yourself and let that weigh heaviest in your decision-making. There's a lot of culture and economic disparity here that is decidedly not European.

Right or wrong that will decide your happiness in Detroit, SE Mich or the USA.

[Jowlska]

Off the top of my head: Grand River from about Greenfield to about Lahser. If you live in Grandmont, Rosedale Park or North Rosedale Park, you can get just about anything you need without having to use a bus or a car. There is a grocery store, several drug stores, numerous restaurants, dry cleaners and even a gym. The only thing missing is a major clothing retailer, which you'll have to drive to a mall to find... But you'd have to do that from just about any of the suburbs that you named as well.

I agree that Grandmont / Rosedale Park area is one of the most walkable and put together areas of Detroit. Lots of businesses there and friendly people. Wouldn't suggest riding the Grand River bus everyday downtown. This bus is late and overcrowded all the time... I think Lafayette Park and along the Riverfront are also nice places within biking distance of downtown with lots of businesses. Outside of the city, I would add Dearborn to the list to consider.

[laphoque]

Unless you go to sporting or cultural events, everything you do will be done in the suburbs.

What do you mean everything will be done in the suburbs? I don't do anything in the suburbs except visit my elderly family. I'm too busy/don't want to lose my parking spot for Meijer so I use Amazon for anything I can't find around town on my bike [[which looking at my buying history is mostly just specialty items like an espresso percolator.. which perhaps I should have checked Hirt's–opps).


But on point:


You, your kids and your wife will need to learn to deal with a level of poverty America tolerates which would be intolerable in Sweden. Although, there are bums in Europe too now that I think about it. They just seem to be there more by choice: like young anarchists with dogs. Although I do remember some old smelly dudes as well so there are nuances.


I'd recommend [[as others have) LaFayette Park if you want modern architecture. It's also perfectly located for you. Eastern Market is by far the cheapest and best spot to get groceries. Your kids could go to Waldorf or Friends School which aren't far but cost tuition. Or you could actually check out Detroit Public Schools which do have some schools that are rated higher than some of the suburban schools so make sure to actually check the rankings. You can find the State's rankings here: http://www.michigan.gov/mde/0,1607,7-140-37818_56562---,00.html

Although next year all of the schools are slated to drop dramatically in the rankings because they're reworking how they rate them. Even the suburban schools may no longer be proficient. http://detnews.com/article/20111103/...allenges-ahead


Keep in mind that American public education doesn't really prepare you for college as well as the European schools. The difficulty level for me as an exchange student to France was much higher in France than my middle of the road northern Michigan public school. You may have to supplement their learning even if they go to the best American public school to get them to an acceptable level for you. We have a strong anti-intellectual streak. Luckily for you, you will probably feel very rich. Detroit is very cheap and the taxes are much lower here than in Sweden. You will be able to pay to have your kids come up in an acceptable manner regardless of your neighborhood choice.

Most of the white kids I know who grew up in Detroit went to Friends School, University of Detroit Mercy High School, and then to a University of Michigan or Michigan State. It's been almost twenty years since they would have started elementary school though so conditions could well be different today. The ones who went to DPS did not have good things to say: but they were talking about the teachers. Cass Tech, for example, can have huge inpersonal lecture-hall classes where students are called by a number.

Here are some resources you may like to look into about raising kids in the city.

http://www.sweet-juniper.com/ An interesting blog about a lawyer turned stay at home dad who you could potentially contact for advice. He doesn't disclose on his blog as far as I can tell where he sends his kids for school but I bet if you emailed him he could give you real info on what it's actually like. His kids are about the age of yours.

http://Metroparent.com has some resources. They even wrote an article about raising kids here. http://www.metroparent.com/Metro-Par...ty-of-Detroit/

You'll have to pay for your five year old to go to preschool though because America doesn't really have free preschool. I don't know if it's any good but I've seen this while walking around and it might be something to look into: http://mpsi.wayne.edu/education/ecc.php it's Wayne State University's child research center and they have a preschool.

Another note: Detroit is for the most part not a 24-hour city. Many of the grocery stores close around 8pm, although there's some in Hamtramck that stay open later til like midnight. Things have shorter hours on Sunday. We were a French city after all. We still have some of that mentality.

Detroit really is a great place to live. I know everything I just wrote looks overwhelming. But you will get to say you were there when Detroit had to dramatically recreate itself to survive. You are arriving at a critical hour for our metro and nation. And you will have the best seats in the state; come what will.

PS The ONLY place in the Detroit area where you will experience European-like security is Windsor. It's just across the river, but they really do things differently over there.

[ASR89]

What about Hamtramck?

[mwilbert]

What do you mean everything will be done in the suburbs? I don't do anything in the suburbs except visit my elderly family.

I suspect he meant that if he lived in the city, he would still do everything in the suburbs.

[mwilbert]

What about Hamtramck?

I considered mentioning Hamtramck, but I know nothing about the schools. Otherwise it would seem like a possible option.

[laphoque]

BTW's the Ikea is in Canton about a thirty minute drive but completely inaccessible by bus due to our regressive transit system.

[Jason]

Ikeas aren't particularly well regarded in Sweden.

[laphoque]

I suspect he meant that if he lived in the city, he would still do everything in the suburbs.

Oh well, no. No that is not the case. At least for me. And most everyone I know who isn't in college and going home on the weekends to raid their parents fridge. And it's not the case for the parents I know here. I can't see somebody moving here who doesn't know the suburbs deciding to go there to do things.

[Zeyrek]

Thank you everyone for your kind replies to my post. I really did not expect so many replies and appreciate the information. Some of the neighborhoods you mention seem interesting or nice [[Lafayette park and Indian village), and i sense many people on this forum have true pride for their city. However, some of the warnings about detroit were alarming after doing some Internet research I must say that I feel naive for thinking a move there with little culture shock.

For example, I read that brush park was an historic neighborhood close to downtown, but then I see that much of it has been torn down or is in ruins like Athens or Rome. I also saw "a tour of Detroit's ghetto" on YouTube and could not believe it. Is most of the city like this? How is this possible in the united states?

I am still interested in what the city has to offer [[i am impressed by the people who have responded here) and am hoping to find the right fit since I have a good job opportunity and would love the chance to live in the States for several years, but only on the right terms. Am I being naive or are things really as bad as some make them out to be?

Thank you.
Zeyrek

[laphoque]

For example, I read that brush park was an historic neighborhood close to downtown, but then I see that much of it has been torn down or is in ruins like Athens or Rome. I also saw "a tour of Detroit's ghetto" on YouTube and could not believe it. Is most of the city like this? How is this possible in the united states?

Most of the city is not like the YouTube "tours of the ghetto." The point of those is to find the most torn up neighborhoods. The majority of the city is not vacant.

The United States has a long history of economic ghost towns. Detroit has economic ghost neighborhoods. Much of the housing could be considered company housing that sprouted up around factories during the postwar boom. That industry has since globalized and Detroit hasn't been able to completely fill in the vacuum. Half the population has left since the peak in the 50's. More than 1.8 million to more than 700K. The metro area's population has been stagnant since the 70s [[and actually it recently declined slightly). But there are a lot of engineering jobs here.

Am I being naive or are things really as bad as some make them out to be?

I mean you were wise enough to ask so I wouldn't call you naive. The situation is bad from a governmental standpoint as it looks as if the city government is about to run out of money. The situation is alright from a people standpoint as there have been more people living in the downtown areas where development strategies have been focused.

Brush Park is part of a strange band between Midtown & Downtown that we're still trying to figure out what to do with. The freeways cut it up and there are some social services that aren't being managed properly to ensure the safety of the surrounding neighborhood. But we might just put an ice rink there and we just built some low income housing.

The situation in the city neighborhoods can go either way. There will be blocks with beautiful mansions or stable older stock homes and then burnt out blocks in the process of being demolished or whole blocks that are just grass that get cut by the city or volunteers/neighborhood groups.

So the positive spin I can put on all that is Detroit is well on its way to having even more abundant parks.

[Dexlin]

How much you are willing to assimilate, tolerate or work to change is key.

If you’re not comfortable with a range of ethnic dynamics and socioeconomic situations be honest with yourself and let that weigh heaviest in your decision-making. There's a lot of culture and economic disparity here that is decidedly not European.

Right or wrong that will decide your happiness in Detroit, SE Mich or the USA.

I think this is the best piece of advice in the thread, and is kind of what most of us are getting at.

I've said it before, but the only thing worse than someone actively shunning Detroit is the naive Detroiter who is met with the most unpleasant surprises and this is scared for life and becomes a Detroit hater. Just as you don't thrown a baby into the deep end of the pool to teach it to swim, you don't mindlessly advocate for throwing some foreigner not just into America, but America's most culturally, socially, and economically dysfunctional major city. That's probably even more irresponsible than asking that they not even consider the place, which, BTW, is not something I'm seeing most people doing in this thread. I see people that genuinely want to make sure that this Swede looks hard before he leaps. If even many Americans -- and even many people within the immediate area -- are culturally shocked by the state of the city why wouldn't we want to educate someone from a nation with as high a living standard as Sweden about the strengths and major weaknesses of a place like Detroit? I love this city, but it's not even a normally functioning city by American standards.

[grumpyoldlady]

Don't! Don't! Don't!

[animatedmartian]

I am still interested in what the city has to offer [[i am impressed by the people who have responded here) and am hoping to find the right fit since I have a good job opportunity and would love the chance to live in the States for several years, but only on the right terms. Am I being naive or are things really as bad as some make them out to be?

Thank you.
Zeyrek

I'd say it's not as bad as they say for all of Detroit. There are parts of the city where you can live comfortably with no problem. And yes there are parts that basically that look like bombed out ghettos. Both exist in Detroit but the "bombed out" areas IMO are places that you'd never actually have to go to, let alone would want to live in anyway [[especially for an immigrant). So in essence, you'll be living in a very multifaceted city.

People only judge Detroit by it's worst and hardly look at it's best only until they actually live in the city. Though, I admit, it's probably waaaaaay easier to look at other major US cities and not have this much of a problem trying to figure the place out.

There are plenty of websites that show the better areas of Detroit and what the city has to offer. Here's one that'll probably be a particularly helpful start: http://www.modeldmedia.com/

So for you, I'd suggest finding out as many positive stories about Detroit as you can but also keeping in mind that the city has its fair share of problems, and is strikingly different than what you'd expect [[for better or worse).

Also keep in mind that many other major urban US cities will all be different from Swedish cities but will have some attributes similar to Detroit [[basically that Americanized factor). I'm not sure if you mentioned about having been to other parts of the US. But all in all, I hope you learn a lot and come to a decision that you'll be satisfied with. Good luck!

[epiphany]

Thank you everyone for your kind replies to my post. I really did not expect so many replies and appreciate the information. Some of the neighborhoods you mention seem interesting or nice [[Lafayette park and Indian village), and i sense many people on this forum have true pride for their city. However, some of the warnings about detroit were alarming after doing some Internet research I must say that I feel naive for thinking a move there with little culture shock.

For example, I read that brush park was an historic neighborhood close to downtown, but then I see that much of it has been torn down or is in ruins like Athens or Rome. I also saw "a tour of Detroit's ghetto" on YouTube and could not believe it. Is most of the city like this? How is this possible in the united states?

I am still interested in what the city has to offer [[i am impressed by the people who have responded here) and am hoping to find the right fit since I have a good job opportunity and would love the chance to live in the States for several years, but only on the right terms. Am I being naive or are things really as bad as some make them out to be?

Thank you.
Zeyrek

The pro-Detroit people on this forum will tell you that most of the city is not like what you see in youtube videos, but they aren't being totally honest. There are pocket neighborhoods that are nice, but even they are high-crime and surrounded by ruin. Downtown does have many cultural attractions, but it also lacks in many of the amenities found in a normal big city. I think that you might be disappointed, frankly.

I moved here with the same naivety because of people on the internet that told me that Detroit was some sort of great, walkable city with reliable public transportation. I don't have a car, and this has caused me immense suffering, especially during the winter.

Crime is very, very high. The majority of Detroit [[outside of the area surrounding WSU and Downtown) is in ruins. The area around WSU is targeted by criminals. The house that I was living in just got broken into within a matter of months. The heating system, a/c, piping, etc. has already been ripped out because we were unable to check on it for a short period of time... and this was in Warrendale, a neighborhood that people try to say is "good" compared to others. Even crime in the "good" neighborhoods is only good by Detroit standards. PLEASE proceed with caution. Know what you are getting yourself into. Don't believe the misinformation spread by people with rose-colored glasses. It's great to love your city and want it to succeed, but we still have many problems.

[animatedmartian]

The pro-Detroit people on this forum will tell you that most of the city is not like what you see in youtube videos, but they aren't being totally honest. There are pocket neighborhoods that are nice, but even they are high-crime and surrounded by ruin.

I can view this as a glass-half-full situation.

I moved here with the same naivety because of people on the internet that told me that Detroit was some sort of great, walkable city with reliable public transportation. I don't have a car, and this has caused me immense suffering, especially during the winter.

Don't know when or where that was said, but that's obviously not an accurate description of the entire city. I don't fault you for not doing research though.

...and this was in Warrendale, a neighborhood that people try to say is "good" compared to others.

Well there's your problem. OP won't be moving to Warrendale. More than likely he'll be moving Downtown. If he wants to live close to where he works, why the hell would he move to Warrendale? Is a magical unicorn going to pick him up? He stated that he wanted to be at least reasonable biking distance from where he'll be working. Yea lemme just take a poll on how many people in Detroit bike 10 Miles to work everyday. I wanna meet these people and find out how we all can be like them.

Don't believe the misinformation spread by people with rose-colored glasses.

I question whether or not your glasses are fogged or only looking at the thorns. There's more misinformation coming from one-sided opinions from no fault of the entire city.

Your environment doesn't fit your needs but your entire environment is not Detroit. It's Warrendale. If Warrendale doesn't fit your needs, move to another part of town whether it be Detroit or some other city. If you can't move then work with whatcha got and buy something that'll help you get around better, whether it be a bike or a car. If you can't do that and can't depend on the bus, well then you have a valid point in saying that Warrendale is not the appropriate area for OP to look in to. But Warrendale is not representative of all of Detroit. And any person who says any one neighborhood ​is representative of all of Detroit is being misleading, and their opinion should only reflect that neighborhood and those listening should take it as such.

I'll now return to my unrealistic world view where unicorns roam the sky...

[Dexlin]

epiphany is not basing his or her understanding of the city only off of living in Warrendale, and never even implied that it was representative of all of Detroit. That's a red herring you're using. You need to get real. Epiphany obviously got to know the city well enough to have an educated opinion of it, and here you are throwing out a red herring by making it sound as if he or she was holed up in his or her home and never got around Detroit. Who are you?

[kryptonite]

Zeyrek, yes please continue to research Detroit neighborhoods and investigate the good and bad aspects of our city. It is a wonderful city in my opinion, but it is definitely a city with many problems. But it is also a city with many wonderful attractions and people and history, etc.

The link to the Swedish American club in the Detroit area might be helpful for you.

Dexlin and Epiphany - you both offer excellent advice. Many of us posting to this lived in Detroit for many years or are currently living in Detroit and experiencing problems associated with that. I lived in the Palmer Park area, the Morningside area, the Woodbridge area and the Six Mile/Telegraph area over the course of many years. Crime was a serious issue in all of my neighborhoods and I finally gave up and left Detroit for a better life - just as hundreds of thousands of people have done over the last 50-60 years.

Many of the pro-Detroiters posting are also living in the new trendy areas around Wayne State, Hamtramck, Corktown, Woodbridge, Indian Village, etc. And I am very happy that they are part of the population of young people that I say are changing Detroit for the better. In the long run, I sincerely believe Detroit will "Rise from the Ashes" as the city's motto indicates.

But a person unfamiliar with this city would be well advised to investigate investigate investigate before moving close to Downtown with a family.

[animatedmartian]

epiphany is not basing his or her understanding of the city only off of living in Warrendale, and never even implied that it was representative of all of Detroit. That's a red herring you're using. You need to get real. Epiphany obviously got to know the city well enough to have an educated opinion of it, and here you are throwing out a red herring by making it sound as if he or she was holed up in his or her home and never got around Detroit. Who are you?

I'm being realistic about where OP will most likely live. Lafayette Park is not Warrendale and while crime is high, it's safe in LP. While public transportation is unreliable across much of the city, LP is within a good biking distance of Downtown and Midtown. There's a school in LP that's better than most in Detroit. There are restaurants and things to do downtown that satisfy what OP is looking for.The only drawback being that there isn't a whole lot of shopping and he'll have to drive to the suburbs.

How is that unrealistic? epiphany can voice their opinions about Warrendale and the rest of Detroit, but how is it relevant if there IS a neighborhood that satisfies OP's needs?

Maybe he is looking for the perfect city where every corner is squeaky clean, and meets the standards of Europe, if that's the case then just lost a job opportunity.