Without Cuts, Detroit out of Cash by April - Bing to Address Issue at 6PM Nov. 16

Buy American · November-15-11, 12:18 PM

It cost the City of Detroit 1.7 Million dollars to find out from an independent agency that Detroit is broke. This is how the administration tightens its' belt? 1.7 million folks!!!
Bing expects City workers [[who have already given up plenty) to give up more and yet the Clownsil still has City cars to drive, still has a $500,000 office budget each, and money is flying out of the Coleman A. Young Building by thousands a day in foolish spending.
While thug KK lives the lavish life in Texas with no job and no source of income, the City of Detroit is going down the tubes. Why is Detroit paying his lawyers fees? Why is Detroit paying Conyers lawyers fees? Why is Detroit paying Yatooma's fees?
Bing is going to go before cameras again on Wednesday and tell the taxpayers that the wonderful public lighting that they now have may be shut off. He will tell them that the great police and fire protection that they are experiencing now will be barebone. Also, EMS workers will be laid off. [[I am being facetious here) I would certainly hope that the taxpayers don't buy his load of $hit and demand that cuts start at the top.
Cut the fat Bing, and cut the crap and quit being a talking head and make some sense out of Detroit's budget and show the people that you are truly looking out for them and not your very deep pockets.

**Danny** · November-15-11, 12:21 PM

Dictator like receivership, here we come! And KING BING will be Detroit's supreme leader. ALL HAIL KING BING, YOUR SUPREME LEADER! Kneel for his presence.

**R8RBOB** · November-15-11, 12:46 PM

I posted this in the other thread, I will post it here.

Detroit is on the brink of total insolvency. Bing wants to be EM, City Council say we don't need one. Bing says the unions need to come to the table to reduce pension and health benefits and City Council say we need more job cuts. Looks like it time for Detroit to play the only hand it can: contract all city services to Omni Comsumer Products. That's right we need OCP to come in and save the day. Our politicians no longer have the ability to save the city so we need a corporation to do the job. Fuck it, let the ED-209s roam through the streets.

Detroit can stop paying into pensions and health benefits. They could institute massive job cuts and the city will still be broke. Why? Because the city is not getting enough money coming in to offset the city being spent to maintain the city.

Detroit need to do the following:
1) declare a financial emergency thus triggering the need for a EM
2) The future EM and city leader need to come up with a plan to bring revenue into the city coffers [[increase population to increase tax base) and plan on creating a new Detroit.
3) give Detroit the GM/Chrysler treatment. Declare bankruptcy and apply for a bailout. To build a new Detroit will require money to make it happen. The old Detroit is dead and broke so trying to save a dead and broke city is a waste of money.

All the citizens are getting is band-aid suggestions that we know is not going to work in the long run. Bing could get the unions to agree on reductions and the City Council can get its job cuts but next year, Bing will be doing the same thing, crying broke because the tax base will still be shrinking and the money well will be dry. He will be going to the citizens asking them to pay the city 10 dollars or there will be no police or fire. What next?

**skyl4rk** · November-15-11, 01:06 PM

Elected and appointed officials should receive only a minimal stipend for each meeting they attend. For that matter, because of past abuse, any payment to elected and appointed officials could be suspended for a few years.

Occurrence · November-15-11, 01:10 PM

King Bing has a nice sound to it. I like that.

**iheartthed** · November-15-11, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

I posted this in the other thread, I will post it here.

Detroit can stop paying into pensions and health benefits. They could institute massive job cuts and the city will still be broke. Why? Because the city is not getting enough money coming in to offset the city being spent to maintain the city.

Detroit need to do the following:
1) declare a financial emergency thus triggering the need for a EM
2) The future EM and city leader need to come up with a plan to bring revenue into the city coffers [[increase population to increase tax base) and plan on creating a new Detroit.
3) give Detroit the GM/Chrysler treatment. Declare bankruptcy and apply for a bailout. To build a new Detroit will require money to make it happen. The old Detroit is dead and broke so trying to save a dead and broke city is a waste of money.

All the citizens are getting is band-aid suggestions that we know is not going to work in the long run. Bing could get the unions to agree on reductions and the City Council can get its job cuts but next year, Bing will be doing the same thing, crying broke because the tax base will still be shrinking and the money well will be dry. He will be going to the citizens asking them to pay the city 10 dollars or there will be no police or fire. What next?

Michigan will not allow Detroit to file bankruptcy.

**professorscott** · November-15-11, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Michigan will not allow Detroit to file bankruptcy.

What Michigan will or will not allow is rapidly fading into irrelevance. When you have insufficient money to pay what you owe, you are insolvent. If a court agrees that you are insolvent, then you are bankrupt.

The state would greatly prefer that Detroit not file for bankruptcy, but so what? The City can't pay its bills and has no hope of paying its bills. The most drastic measures conceivable will only affect money owed going forward, which is not sufficient to fix the problem. For instance, even if you cut DDOT service 100% tomorrow, you still owe the drivers for the work they did so far this week.

Detroit is, let us say, de facto bankrupt, and the City and State can fiddle all they want while deciding whether to convert the status to de jure bankruptcy. It is what it is.

**iheartthed** · November-15-11, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by professorscott

What Michigan will or will not allow is rapidly fading into irrelevance. When you have insufficient money to pay what you owe, you are insolvent. If a court agrees that you are insolvent, then you are bankrupt.

The state would greatly prefer that Detroit not file for bankruptcy, but so what? The City can't pay its bills and has no hope of paying its bills. The most drastic measures conceivable will only affect money owed going forward, which is not sufficient to fix the problem. For instance, even if you cut DDOT service 100% tomorrow, you still owe the drivers for the work they did so far this week.

Detroit is, let us say, de facto bankrupt, and the City and State can fiddle all they want while deciding whether to convert the status to de jure bankruptcy. It is what it is.

Well, it's against the law for a municipality in Michigan to file bankruptcy without the state's consent. If you thought the state was broke now then wait until they have to start servicing their debt and borrowing at much higher rates after Michigan's by far largest city files bankruptcy. They'll most likely opt to funnel state money into shoring up Detroit's books, as well as using EFM powers to renegotiate union contracts.

**townonenorth** · November-15-11, 01:48 PM

With any luck, the City of Detroit will manage to enter into an settlement agreement before a financial manager is appointed. Lacking that political will is what got them in this predicament in the first place, so I'm not holding my breath for that to happen, even though it would be the easiest and the least disruptive to city government.

What will probably end up happening would be an EFM appointment. If Detroit is REAL lucky, Bing won't be the manager. Nor anyone currently in city government for that matter.

**313hero** · November-15-11, 01:55 PM

Didnt they just pass the budget? so why is it expected to be 150+m in the hole by April. Didnt the city council want to cut more but Bing backed out??? I think Bing is trying to give the city away just like the whistleblower lawsuit CURRENTLY against him is saying. B4 a EFM comes to Detroit the State BETTER pay us what they owe. the State Owes Detroit $200m+ and yall worried about KK's 1m. SMH

**corktownyuppie** · November-15-11, 02:18 PM

Let's throw all the terms out the window, whether it's "bankruptcy" or "EFM" or whatever. The bottom line, as Professorscott put it, is that Detroit is on the verge of being unable to pay its bills.

Regardless of who's given the political authority to make the decisions, people are going to be unhappy with the decisions. Perhaps politics might dictate who will take the blame for these decisions, but it won't matter. Detroit will not be able to pay everyone it owes money. Many that get paid will receive less than they were expecting. This will happen whether or not there is an EFM. This will happen no matter who is in charge.

Also note, that whether we like it or not, the State of Michigan will have influence [[whether or not it actually holds the political office) to dictate our affairs. Either the state is going to step in and actually make the decisions. Or it will threaten a takeover in order to convince local leaders to make the decisions.

Since the State won't allow for a traditional bankruptcy, where the debts are just totally eliminated, it will likely give the city cash in order to prevent total insolvency. But this cash will come with strings attached, and it will push local politicians to do things which will make people unhappy.

Bottom line? It's not going to be pretty. I'm hopeful that whatever financial reckoning is coming toward us will be dealt with once and for all so that the city can focus on building in a sustainable way. If that happens, I truly don't care who is in the chair making the calls.

When you owe money to someone and you don't have it...guess what. No one is going to be happy. Let's just do it and get it over with.

**iheartthed** · November-15-11, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

Let's throw all the terms out the window, whether it's "bankruptcy" or "EFM" or whatever. The bottom line, as Professorscott put it, is that Detroit is on the verge of being unable to pay its bills.

Regardless of who's given the political authority to make the decisions, people are going to be unhappy with the decisions. Perhaps politics might dictate who will take the blame for these decisions, but it won't matter. Detroit will not be able to pay everyone it owes money. Many that get paid will receive less than they were expecting. This will happen whether or not there is an EFM. This will happen no matter who is in charge.

Also note, that whether we like it or not, the State of Michigan will have influence [[whether or not it actually holds the political office) to dictate our affairs. Either the state is going to step in and actually make the decisions. Or it will threaten a takeover in order to convince local leaders to make the decisions.

Since the State won't allow for a traditional bankruptcy, where the debts are just totally eliminated, it will likely give the city cash in order to prevent total insolvency. But this cash will come with strings attached, and it will push local politicians to do things which will make people unhappy.

Bottom line? It's not going to be pretty. I'm hopeful that whatever financial reckoning is coming toward us will be dealt with once and for all so that the city can focus on building in a sustainable way. If that happens, I truly don't care who is in the chair making the calls.

When you owe money to someone and you don't have it...guess what. No one is going to be happy. Let's just do it and get it over with.

It's really not pretty now. I honestly don't know that an EFM could really do anything to make services in Detroit worse [[just today the TRU released a study saying that the average wait for a Detroit bus is 30 minutes... AVERAGE!). The most pain will be felt by municipal employees. Quality of life issues probably won't be affected that much.

**Locke09** · November-15-11, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by 313hero

Didnt they just pass the budget? so why is it expected to be 150+m in the hole by April. Didnt the city council want to cut more but Bing backed out???

Bing-O

Council said his budget was too optimistic and he said Council was wrong. He said a 10% salary cut was needed from the unions two years ago. He got that and it is still in place. He came back for benefits concessions, including increases in healthcare co-payments, healthcare premiums and healthcare deductibles. Still it's not enough.

In the meantime, the City gives tax breaks that it cannot afford and spends money on contractors without insisting on a return on investment.

Close down all the neighborhood city halls or whatever they are being called now. We cannot afford them for the type of service they provide. Rescind some of those tax breaks we cannot afford. Get Compuware out of Buildings and Safety and Income Tax where they have cost millions of dollars over the last year without anything tangible [[and profitable) to show for it.

**R8RBOB** · November-15-11, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by professorscott

What Michigan will or will not allow is rapidly fading into irrelevance. When you have insufficient money to pay what you owe, you are insolvent. If a court agrees that you are insolvent, then you are bankrupt.

The state would greatly prefer that Detroit not file for bankruptcy, but so what? The City can't pay its bills and has no hope of paying its bills. The most drastic measures conceivable will only affect money owed going forward, which is not sufficient to fix the problem. For instance, even if you cut DDOT service 100% tomorrow, you still owe the drivers for the work they did so far this week.

Detroit is, let us say, de facto bankrupt, and the City and State can fiddle all they want while deciding whether to convert the status to de jure bankruptcy. It is what it is.

Very well said. Detroit could look through every couch and they still won't find enough change to get Detroit over the hump. To be fair to Bing, this problem didn't start when Bing got the job, it has been decades in the making.

**R8RBOB** · November-15-11, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by Locke09

In the meantime, the City gives tax breaks that it cannot afford and spends money on contractors without insisting on a return on investment.

The city was so afraid of GM moving out of the Ren Cen that Bing proposed 0% taxes to stay in the city. Dan Gilbert moved his HQ from Livonia and he is gobbling up every piece of property that he can lay his hands on. Blue Cross moved their Southfield employees to the Ren Cen. Betcha they got something from the city to make that happen. These fabulous tax breaks may have the corporations willing to move to Detroit but what good is having the corporations in town when the people have to starve?

**brizee** · November-15-11, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by 313hero

Didnt they just pass the budget? so why is it expected to be 150+m in the hole by April. Didnt the city council want to cut more but Bing backed out??? I think Bing is trying to give the city away just like the whistleblower lawsuit CURRENTLY against him is saying.

This.
THIS.
A thousand times this.

He just got done preaching all summer about how irresponsible the cuts would be.

So Goddamn sorry I fell for this clown's act. In the two and a half years he's been here he's shown himself to be dishonest, incompetent and contemptuous of the residents of this city.

**Novine** · November-15-11, 05:54 PM

Here's what we can expect to see:

1. A state appointed EFM or a negotiated agreement between the city and state that will give the city powers similar to what an EFM would wield.

2. Massive layoffs in city employees. Most will come from non-public safety departments and administrative levels in public safety. Expect to see big cuts in areas like parks and recreation.

3. Big cuts in health care benefits tied to big increases in employee contributions. Same with pensions. Those city employees who are left are going to feel it in the pocketbook.

4. Sell off of "assets" like CAY/City Airport, Department of Public Lighting, city's share of tunnel revenue, etc.

5. Short-term financing from the State to allow the city to continue to pay its bills while these cuts go into effect. Even with immediate cuts, it will take up to a year for the financial impact of these cuts to reach the bottom line. This will be tied to steps 1 - 4 being implemented. If that can't be negotiated with the city, it will be done by a EFM.

The bottom line will be big reductions in city services beyond what citizens are experiencing today, lots of city employees going on unemployment, those who are left losing pay and benefits and a radically downsized city government. Unfortunately, this likely will only work in the short-term and absent a significant upturn in the national economy, expect to see this process repeated in a few years as Detroit's revenue stream continues to dry up.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · November-15-11, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Michigan will not allow Detroit to file bankruptcy.

Why wouldn't they? Pontiac is in receivership right now if I'm correct. I know Pontiac's importance to the state isn't the same, but still.

lilpup · November-15-11, 06:25 PM

With all this noise of late why hasn't Snyder already taken the early steps toward appointing an EFM? Did the city try to hide the Ernst report because it might trigger the EFM process?

http://www.michigan.gov/treasury/0,1...8770--,00.html

**R8RBOB** · November-15-11, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by lilpup

With all this noise of late why hasn't Snyder already taken the early steps toward appointing an EFM? Did the city try to hide the Ernst report because it might trigger the EFM process?

http://www.michigan.gov/treasury/0,1...8770--,00.html

Detroit didn't have to hide anything. The state don't want to put an EM in Detroit. Dave Bing was practically begging Snyder to appoint him as EM when reports came out that the city was running out of money. I have been in Detroit for a long time and I know that Engler and Granholm did not want to discuss receivership because they did not want to manage the headache that is Detroit. I would expect Snyder to be of the same mind as his predecessors.

lilpup · November-15-11, 06:53 PM

I wouldn't. Snyder isn't the same mindset at all as Granholm or Engler. I think the big business community would welcome and support Snyder in a way they wouldn't the other two [[Granholm = wrong party, Engler = idiot). If anything I think it might be that the state's powers-that-be need more time to get their hands around it and scope out possible solutions. I fully expect Snyder to drop the hammer at some point if city leaders can't come up with something soon.

**corktownyuppie** · November-15-11, 07:00 PM

Snyder will drop the hammer.

Bankruptcy, whether it's a managed, gradual re-structuring...or an all-at-once kick to the nuts...will be painful.

In the end, though, Detroit -- the city -- will emerge with far less financial constraints and a blank slate on which to build. In other words, this process will be rough for Detroiters [[the people) but good for Detroit [[the city).

Hold tight.

**skyl4rk** · November-15-11, 08:14 PM

Snyder will appoint an EFM.

The big question is will the EFM contract with another jurisdiction for police services. If another police agency starts enforcing the law in the way it is done outside of Detroit, there will be some radical changes in the City.

lilpup · November-15-11, 09:00 PM

Detroit is large enough to support its own police department. There's no reason to suspect it would be contracted out. There might be the introduction of the combo police/fire responders that some other jurisdictions have. There might be more management team outsourcing, like is being done with DDOT. Getting competent department management in place can make a world of difference in employee morale and productivity.

**R8RBOB** · November-15-11, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by skyl4rk

Snyder will appoint an EFM.

The big question is will the EFM contract with another jurisdiction for police services. If another police agency starts enforcing the law in the way it is done outside of Detroit, there will be some radical changes in the City.

Not to be snarky, well I apologize for being snarky in my upcoming comment but could you provide an example of a police agency outside of Detroit that enforces the law differently? I believe your entire statement is full of hyperbole and bullshit but I invite you to prove me wrong.