Speed Trap at Detroit-Redford Border

[royce]

Today I got a speeding ticket coming down hill on the bridge at Telegraph over the Jeffries Freeway [[I-96) heading north. The cop was a Redford Township cop with a radar gun on the east side of Telegraph on a dead-end side street in Detroit. He clocked me doing 60 in a 45 mile zone. Now, I've gotten speeding tickets before, but to get a ticket coming down hill, when the laws of physics would say that a car travelling at the speed limit on a level plane would increase speed on a decline, is preposterous. They also ticket people on a decline on Telegraph just south of 96 at the train viaduct. How does Redford police get away with this crap?

This is one of those times when I not only want to fight the ticket but also fight the practice of Redford police ticketing drivers while coming down a decline. I would also question their jurisdiction to issue speeding tickets when they are positioning themselves in Detroit city limits. What course of action can I take to avoid paying this ticket [[$145) and to also get this speed-trap eliminated?

[DetroitPlanner]

You will go nowhere with this. Dearborn Heights also pulls over prople in Rouge Park. There are agreements between neighboring police agencies. Prior to the budget crisis, I would constantly see Dearbon cops in Warrendale. It actually made me feel safer.

[antongast]

Just pay the damn ticket and don't speed there next time.

[DetroitPlanner]

Don't speed anywhere, its not worth it. I got popped this summer in Oscoda. I was driving in AuSable byway in the woods at 55. the second I crossed into the twp the speed dropped to 40 and there was a cop waitint there pulling people over. I paid the ticket and they offered a class in safe driving so I would not get points. 4 hours of my life wasted as I drive like an old man.

[Gannon]

Royce,

I know you're angry...but you need to make sure it is a radar ticket. If it is laser, you have little chance of fighting it. Chances of having any form of effect on the placement of these officers is slimmer than that.

Detroit and Redford share a border, and they are well within their jurisdiction for this surveillance. They've done it since I was in HIGH SCHOOL, and I've been out for thirty years.

If it is radar, you can still use the old Zoltan Ferency defense. It is a multi-step check insuring the officer was licensed to transmit frequencies limited by the FCC, then learning if the unit was calibrated that morning before their shift started...and a few other things that I've never had to use because none of the tickets I ever got went past those first two proofs before getting thrown out of court.

It is documented here on-line, I'm sure.

It doesn't work with laser...which is a much more accurate device, and with precise range enough to have tagged you at the crest of the hill...before any momentum gained by gravity.


I thought the Detroit cops were doing such on their trap on either side of the Mack bridge north of the Chrysler plant. Westbound, they are clearly tagging the vehicles at the crest of the hill...but Eastbound they can only get them after that slight bend in the road more than halfway down the slope.


If you take it to court, do not allow any proceedings under a magistrate...they are likely to not have the power to make any deals. Request a trial under a real judge, and then have a talk with the prosecutor before the session. Don't waste money on an attorney, you are way too smart to have need of a proxy voice...and your appearance and demeanor will show well in court. If it gets that far.

With no priors, they will probably offer to shift it to a non-moving violation without points...commonly 'obstructing traffic' or some bullshit like that. It will cost you MORE than the ticket, but it is up to you whether you want to escape the attendant insurance increases if you change companies. Most renewals are not subject to license reports, unless something drastic has happened...because insurance companies don't want to go to that expense all the time.


Good luck.


Sincerely,
John

[Gannon]

Found this...hope it helps.


http://tipmra.com/kgb/WEB/case/michigan/FERENCY_p.htm


Cheers!

[Gannon]

Couple more good ones...

http://tipmra.com/new_tipmra/updates...et_defense.htm


http://www.svrider.com/tips/speeding.html

[Lowell]

You could show up and try to get it reduced to impeding traffic; no points but same $. Your savings are with the insurance companies - the silent partners in this game. Talk to a local lawyer to see what the opportunities are.

Redford is infamous for ticketing. Some years back there was a thread on them based around a newspaper report that showed they issued more tickets than the entire City of Detroit did. I believe their ticket total was more than any community in the metro.

Sorry about it, just tough luck. These cops are seeing their fellow cops and city workers getting axed all over the place, so they have to make it up somehow.

[Gistok]

Sorry about that Royce!

For those eastsiders there are a few ticket traps as well.... all near I-94

1) EB I-94 the Harper Woods police will sit on the EB Moross entrance ramp waiting until someone goes way over the speed limit [[above 70MPH, even though the limit there is 55MPH).
2) again in Harper Woods, police will often sit under the I-94 Lochmoor bridge waiting for EB travelers.
3) again EB I-94 coming around the bend into SCS, sometimes the SCS police will sit on the shoulder... othertimes they will sit on the 9 Mile EB entrance ramp.
4) for WB traffic SCS sometimes sits in the medion coming around the 8 Mile bend... other times Harper Woods will be sitting on the shoulder just after the WB exit to 8 Mile/Vernier.
5) probably the worst I've seen is the Roseville police sitting along 11 Mile Rd., at the last exit before I-696 ends at I-94. When people get off the exit and continue EB on 11 Mile Rd., there's often a Roseville cop car waiting under the freeway interchange bridge [[in the median)... there the speed limit is 35, but people going over 40 often get pulled over just as they exit Roseville [[over I-94) and I'm always seeing Roseville police with their flashers on in the first 3 side streets of SCS.

[animatedmartian]

Today I got a speeding ticket coming down hill on the bridge at Telegraph over the Jeffries Freeway [[I-96) heading north.

Police sometimes do this at the 8 Mile and 75 bridge too. I don't think I've seen traps at the 16 Mile bridge over the railroads, but the speed limit is 55 [[or 50?) and you can easily hit 70 if you don't put in effort to slow down.

Personally, I just slow down at both spots because there's lights on both sides of the bridge and I'm never really in a rush anyway.

[softailrider]

If you have a clean driving record go to court and they'll reduce it to a non-moving violation. Probably cost about 150.00 or so. They're going to get in your wallet, I don't think there's much you can do about it, pay them and forget about it. Consider it a tax for living in this area.

[Meddle]

but to get a ticket coming down hill, when the laws of physics would say that a car travelling at the speed limit on a level plane would increase speed on a decline, is preposterous.

Ummmm, your car DOES have brakes, right? And a transmission? Both are included in most cars for this specific reason, to control speed over varying terrain.

[Gannon]

I'd argue that, Meddle.

Modern automatic transmissions with overdrive 'freewheel' on downhills, unless you've some sport mode to switch into...like my girlfriend's Saab.

But even on the Mack bridge, which may be a bit steeper than the Telegraph one, if you are driving the speed limit at the crest, you're only doing 45 on the down due to gravity. So, there is some increase in velocity due to gravity...but you'd have to be speeding to begin with in order to achieve a full 15 mph over the limit.

As for the brakes, too many people brake late. They SHOULD be braking before building the momentum...but too many people skipped physics in high school.


But the overall trend of traffic is speeding, continually. I've seen it get so much worse in the last ten years, as vehicle horsepower has peaked in every classification. We have more power available at every price point than ever before.


I'm all for slowing down traffic, but I'd rather they do it California CHiPs style...simply drive in traffic and create the safe slow flow. But the cops I see driving around town are some of the worst speed offenders...surely they are not all on calls. From what I can tell, the Detroit police don't actually answer calls...but you see them speeding and running lights all over town.


Cheers!

[cramerro]

If you go to court, you're likely to have them reduce the ticket to impeding traffic [[0 points) as mentioned above. I'd start there.

In Livonia, they do the same thing with the viaduct on Middlebelt. They sit in the first driveway to the Ford Parts depot and watch for how fast you're going in the 40 mph zone when you get to the bottom... it's a 7-lane road there, feels like 696. I set the crusie control since I go that way all the time.

Speed traps suck, but it's also your responsibility as a driver to watch you speed. If they're supposed to know that a downhill makes your car go faster, you should too, so use your brakes. There's no rule that says you shouldn't have to brake or downshift on a decline... states with much more variable terrain you can go 65 at the top of the hill and be going 90+ at the bottom without so much as touching the gas.

If the hill makes you go 60 in a 45 zone, you're still going 60 mph. And going south down the overpass, there is a traffic light at Glendale that would come up pretty quick if you were going that fast... making it difficult to stop and avoid the heavy truck and auto traffic that pulls out there all the way across to the crossover to turn around.

Do they have better things to do than sit and write tickets there? Yes. Unfortunately, people speed there all the time. Maybe a call to the State Police for a speed study could get it bumped up to 50MPH... that's closer to what the traffic travels there anyway.

[Downriviera]

Not just speed traps in this area. Try getting onto Hines Drive at Telegraph and Ann Arbor Trail. You get off Telegraph and head east on Ann Arbor Trail where the entrance to Hines is about a block or so away. You turn left onto the road that takes you down to Hines and bam, theres a cop there ticketing you for no left turn. They have a very small sign on the corner, nothing on the street or above, warning you of no left turn. If a truck or van is there it will block your view of the sign. The only other way to get down to Hines here is to continue east on Ann Arbor Trail into what is a residential neighborhood and turn around and head back. No easy way to turn around though. Why would they want traffic going into the neighborhood then turning around. And if they don't want people entering Hines here then why not close the access road. Big money maker here.

[mkhopper]

Yea, I'm going to have to argue this one too. I go over that hill on Telegraph and 96 every day. S in the morning, N at night.

If you're doing the correct limit of 45, but let's say 50, which is pretty much what everyone does, you would have to shift to neutral and then only maybe would you get up to 60 by the bottom of the hill.

With either a manual or automatic trans, just lifting is enough to keep your speed in check while going down the hill. If you got tagged going 60, it's because you had your foot down.

[Danny]

There speed traps all over the suburban borders including Lincoln Park. Livonia is a potential hot spot for speed traps. One move the corps will get you in a flash.

[One Shot]

This just reminded me. I thought this was amusing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOJvP...eature=related

[Scottathew]

I see your argument, it is a little annoying. Ferndale and Hazel Park cops do the same thing on 8-Mile when you come down off the bridges over I-75, a railroad track, and Woodward.

However, speeding is speeding. You'll need to slow down or break there!

[noggin]

I got nailed on the 9 mile exit of Eastbound I-94 on a Sunday morning with no traffic. The exit was under construction and there was a no right turn on red sign camouflaged in nearly 12 construction signs. Not only that, when a car would stop at the white line it was not visible. It is clearly stated in the state statutes it must be visible at the stop mark. It did not matter. St. Clair Shore cop would sit at that corner and write tickets for all victims. It was clear to me this was just a way to generate revenue.

[royce]

Thanks to those who have offered suggestions. I guess what really gets me is that the police are deliberately positioning themselves in a position to ticket people. Why are they at the bottom of a hill? Why not on a flat piece of road? As I approached Glendale I made sure I reduced my speed because I know they're there. Not I'm going to have to make sure I reduce my speed on the big hill. It sucks because I was being careful on one end and then get trip up oh the other. This is for sure. I won't be donating any voluntary money to the Redford Township Police Department any time soon.

[gazhekwe]

I got a speeding ticket just north of Ford Road on Evergreen, from Dearborn Heights. The speed drops just there and I was ticketed for 7 over. Tsk! It would cost me $120 + points to just pay it. I opted for a hearing, and was one of a long line of people who were getting a hearing 'before a magistrate.' The person who handled the matters in the courtroom was an officer, in a police uniform. Everyone was given an opportunity to reduce the charge to impeding for no points, and pay $140. So for an extra $20, no points. It was obviously pretty well institutionalized. Only one of the 20 or so people in the courtroom opted to take it further, everybody else just said thank you and got in line to pay. So, a good and reliable income stream for Dearborn Heights for people who are not paying attention to the letter of the law as they navigate through the jurisdictions.

[Gannon]

Yeah, I need to amend my comments in that first post...magistrates cannot do any significant reduction deals...other than these obviously pre-approved cash grabs. You cannot 'beat' a ticket in front of a magistrate, I don't even think they allow evidence. All I know is what that Rochester Hills magistrate said, and the extraordinary bristling I caused by requesting something useful...like a real hearing, LOL!


Cheers


RIP, Zoltan Ferency...there have only been a few legislators and attorneys like you...

[Wesley Mouch]

Caught at 60 in a 45 is not a speed trap. Just called speeding.

To be a trap, it should be a setup. Either an unreasonable drop in speed limit for the purpose of catching people, or a 'trap' w/ several motor cars waiting for people doing even 1mph over the limit, or perhaps just unreasonable enforcement.

Otherwise, its just called speeding.

[Gannon]

If they wanted us to drive safe speeds, they'd do as the CHiPs do...drive the speed limit themselves. Be seen driving safely. I've never seen speed control work like it does on California highways.

I believe Royce has it right...on a downhill with acceleration due to gravity it is as likely for the normal driver to miss being above the limit, just like those instances you mention, Wesley. You don't need several cars waiting...but that makes it more obvious. This is unreasonable enforcement, Redford has made a TON of money off of those driving on Telegraph for many years. Dearborn Heights, too.

Generations have had a ton of fun drag racing up and down that strip, then getting away from the boys in blue...so perhaps this unusual enforcement is merely a reaction to that...they don't call it Blood & Guts Highway for no reason, either. Some terrible accidents happen because of the poor planning and execution of that 8-lane boulevard with heavy retail on both sides.


Yuck...