Belanger Park River Rouge
ON THIS DATE IN DETROIT HISTORY - BELANGER PARK »



Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 69
  1. #1

    Default Federal Judge to Order a New Management System for the Detroit Water & Sewerage Dept.

    Federal Judge Sean Cox who has the federal oversight of the Detroit Water & Sewerage Department, will soon order a new management system for the Water Dept.

    He has already asked the City and others to work together to make a new management system. They failed to do act. So, now he will.

    Finally, a Regional Water Authority.

    Name:  water.jpg
Views: 1629
Size:  26.5 KB

    http://www.freep.com/article/2011110...text|FRONTPAGE

  2. #2

    Default

    I'm all for regionalism, but so long as the city is independent, why should it have to regionalize what is essentially one of its public service departments?

  3. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1953 View Post
    I'm all for regionalism, but so long as the city is independent, why should it have to regionalize what is essentially one of its public service departments?
    See, it's not regionalism unless the counties get to take something from the city -- a la Cobo. If the city were to take anything from the counties, however, L. Brooks Patterson's head would explode.

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Detroitnerd View Post
    See, it's not regionalism unless the counties get to take something from the city -- a la Cobo. If the city were to take anything from the counties, however, L. Brooks Patterson's head would explode.
    Don't forget regionalism is a good thing if what is being supported is outside the city as well.

    The zoo [[in OC) was approved by voters for a regional tax
    The DIA and other cultural institutions in the city have very little support for a regional tax

    Of course, given the backwoods mentality of this region people may just appreciate looking at animals taking a dump more than an art collection at the DIA.

  5. #5

    Default

    Republicans hate environmental regulations and activist judges. But if Cox gives the suburbs control over DWSD, they'll be cheering this ruling.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    149

    Default

    http://www.freep.com/article/2011110...text|FRONTPAGE

    Well, the ax has fallen. Of the more controversial elements of the order, it will: "Allow the department to sell off assets without a vote of Detroiters, as the current City Charter requires."

    While I have not read the order, I think this certainly is an example of judicial activism unless it can be demonstrated that the ownership of the assets is a burden to CWA compliance. The suburbs have finally achieve via judicial fiat what they couldn't via the political process for decades. And at the hands of the former GOP AG's brother.

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jt1 View Post
    Don't forget regionalism is a good thing if what is being supported is outside the city as well.

    The zoo [[in OC) was approved by voters for a regional tax
    The DIA and other cultural institutions in the city have very little support for a regional tax

    Of course, given the backwoods mentality of this region people may just appreciate looking at animals taking a dump more than an art collection at the DIA.
    Extremely well said. I feel like the Prince at the end of Romeo and Juliet -- "All are punished!"

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by English View Post
    Extremely well said. I feel like the Prince at the end of Romeo and Juliet -- "All are punished!"
    According to the Free Press, the new ruling would " Free the department from city purchasing, hiring and salary requirements".

    This is huge.

    This will eliminate bottleneck in payments.

  9. #9

    Default

    So the judge just sais so and it will be done?

    Does anyone have a clue as to how Detroiters could possibly fight this ruling, hypothetically?

  10. #10

    Default

    And yet nothing in judge Cox's order actually deals with the pollution issue. Which is the supposedly the reason for the order in the first place. It's all about controlling the contracts. Damn shame.

  11. #11

    Default

    Detroitnerd and jt1 pretty much summed it all up.

    So basically Detroit can own the system, but it can't do anything with it [[in which case it might as well NOT own it). How nice, so we, the citizens of Detroit, have to pay for something with our tax dollars that we can't even control.

    Yet, I bet the suburbs would get their panties in a bunch if Detroit wanted to control Red Oaks, which I bet these days a lot more Detroiters use than people from Oakland County.

  12. #12

    Default

    Everyone knows the water department is one of the few remaining aces in the City of Detroit's hand. What's it worth if it went to auction? Ten billion? Twenty?

    Why is there so much interest in regionalizing the water and sewage department but so little interest in regionalizing the City of Detroit's social services departments, impoverished and schools?

    How about selling the DSWD and using the proceeds to fund the CofD schools?

    The CoD could then buy water from whoever buys it, raise still more revenue by tacking fees onto the rates like all other communities do and then join the choir bitching about how high the rates are.

  13. #13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kraig View Post
    And yet nothing in judge Cox's order actually deals with the pollution issue. Which is the supposedly the reason for the order in the first place. It's all about controlling the contracts. Damn shame.
    Pollution crossing state and international boundaries is a federal matter. However, this judge seems to have legislated from the bench and overstepped by ruling on matters having nothing to do with pollution or federal jurisdiction.

  14. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 313WX View Post
    Detroitnerd and jt1 pretty much summed it all up.

    So basically Detroit can own the system, but it can't do anything with it [[in which case it might as well NOT own it). How nice, so we, the citizens of Detroit, have to pay for something with our tax dollars that we can't even control.

    Yet, I bet the suburbs would get their panties in a bunch if Detroit wanted to control Red Oaks, which I bet these days a lot more Detroiters use than people from Oakland County.
    Owning a system [[being entitled to its profits) and Controlling a system [[being entitled to determine how it spends and receives money) are two very different things. Detroiters should be entitled to every penny of profits generated by the system into which it invested its capital.

    But a system that works to the greater public good, and frankly, has a virtual monopoly, should have joint and cooperative control over how its resources are used. The devils in the details of course, and as a Detroiter, I want to make sure my voice carries power.

    If Red Oaks served 4.2 million people per year and $100 million dollars to construct without any realistically feasible source of competition, then yes, I'd agree with you.
    Last edited by corktownyuppie; November-05-11 at 06:53 AM.

  15. #15

    Default

    Assets of DWS have already been ceded to suburban control. A few years ago the interceptor that runs along the Edison corridor between Hoover and Shoenerr was ordered to be handed over to a regional authority, after an inspection revealed it was falling apart and DWS had no plans on repairing it. There was a huge sinkhole at fifteen mile a few years ago that formed from the interceptor leaking.

    This is where the environmental aspect comes in. DWS is barely maintaining the sewer lines in the CoD proper, and pretty much ignoring what it owns outside the CoD proper.

    I have no firsthand knowledge of the inner workings of DWS, but I knew someone who installed water monitoring systems for the EPA. He was not impressed with DWS management. He said they weren't the worst department he's worked with, but they were pretty bad.

  16. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kraig View Post
    And yet nothing in judge Cox's order actually deals with the pollution issue. Which is the supposedly the reason for the order in the first place. It's all about controlling the contracts. Damn shame.
    Really? Have you read the consent order?

    ...the City had not established that the DWSD has achieved even short-term compliance with the ACO and the Clean Water Act. In addition, this Court concluded that the extensive record in this case establishes that, unless more fundamental corrective measures are taken to address the institutional and bureaucratic barriers to compliance, sustained compliance with the Clean Water Act and the ACO will simply not occur. This Court further explained:

    Although the City has had ample opportunity to propose solutions to the root causes of noncompliance that were identified early on in this case, to date, it has not proposed or implemented a plan that has sufficiently addressed those root causes.

    To be fair, the City has been constrained in the measures it has proposed or implemented to date because the City is bound by various provisions of the City’s Charter and ordinances, and by existing contracts, that prevent the City from making fundamental changes in the identified problem areas. This Court, however, has broad equitable power to order any relief necessary to achievecompliance with the Clean Water Act and this Court
    [I]is not constrained by the provisions of the City’s Charter or ordinances. Nevertheless, this Court is mindful that remedies that override state or local law should be narrowly tailored and that, to the extent possible, local officials should at least have the opportunity to devise their own solutions to remedy a violation of federal law.

    Accordingly, this Court ordered the Mayor of the City of Detroit [[and/or his designee), the City Council President and President Pro Tem, and a current member of the Board of Water Commissioners [[“BOWC”) [[to be chosen by the BOWC) to meet and confer and, within 60 days of the date of this order, propose a plan that addresses the root causes of non-compliance that are discussed in this Opinion & Order.

    The Court directed that, in making such recommendations to the Court, these individuals shall not be constrained by any local Charter or ordinance provisions or by the provisions of any existing contracts. Finally, the Court cautioned that “f the local officials fail to devise and propose a workable solution to remedy the underlying causes of the recurrent violations of the Clean Water Act in this case, this Court will order a more intrusive remedy on its own.”



    Following this Court’s September 9, 2010 Opinion & Order, the above individuals have been meeting and conferring in order to devise and propose a workable solution to remedy the underlying root causes of noncompliance [[“the Root Cause Committee”). On November 2, 2011, the Root Cause Committee submitted a written proposed “Plan of Action” to the Special Master in this action, which the Special Master then submitted to the Court on that same date.




    The Court Adopts The Plan Proposed By The Root Cause Committee.



  17. #17

    Default

    I'm all for regional control of certain DWS assets. Many parts are serve the entire region and not just Detroit.

    However, as others have said, if a regional authority is going to run it, then a regional authority needs to purchase it. Buy the regional assets, but leave the local-serving assets in Detroit's control [[just as most cities maintain their own local water infrastructure).

  18. #18

  19. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by corktownyuppie View Post
    Owning a system [[being entitled to its profits) and Controlling a system [[being entitled to determine how it spends and receives money) are two very different things. Detroiters should be entitled to every penny of profits generated by the system into which it invested its capital.

    But a system that works to the greater public good, and frankly, has a virtual monopoly, should have joint and cooperative control over how its resources are used. The devils in the details of course, and as a Detroiter, I want to make sure my voice carries power.

    If Red Oaks served 4.2 million people per year and $100 million dollars to construct without any realistically feasible source of competition, then yes, I'd agree with you.
    Great post!

    I look at it like this...

    What's the sensible thing here?

    This is a regional system. It needs to be well-run for the region's health -- literally. I agree with him on the 'profit' returning to the 'owners', but since cities are only collections of residents that changes from time-to-time, it could easily be argued that the money came from people who now live in the suburbs. Why are they being disenfranchised? Just because they no longer live in the City? It was in great part their money.

  20. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 48091 View Post
    I'm all for regional control of certain DWS assets. Many parts are serve the entire region and not just Detroit.

    However, as others have said, if a regional authority is going to run it, then a regional authority needs to purchase it. Buy the regional assets, but leave the local-serving assets in Detroit's control [[just as most cities maintain their own local water infrastructure).
    Exactly.

    Why should I or other Detroit citizens be forced to pay for something that we can't even control, especially when we're the ones that paid to build the infrastructure in the first place? The suburbs BEGGED US for the water service so they could move to 47 mile and oakleyorchardmiddlebelt rd, not the other way around. If they wanted fresh water and a sewage system at 47 mile and oaklkeyorchardgarfieldmiddlebelt red. and to control to control it then they should have built their own.

    And what profits does this system bring in exactly? Whatever money it does bring in more likely than not goes straight back into the operating costs.

  21. #21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jt1 View Post
    Don't forget regionalism is a good thing if what is being supported is outside the city as well.

    The zoo [[in OC) was approved by voters for a regional tax
    The DIA and other cultural institutions in the city have very little support for a regional tax

    Of course, given the backwoods mentality of this region people may just appreciate looking at animals taking a dump more than an art collection at the DIA.
    Yes, Metro Detroiters are a funny sort... even the heavily city supported Charles Wright Museum in Detroit finds itself in the awkward position where visitation statistics show that city residents are more interested in zoo animals than they are in their own oppressed and struggling history....

  22. #22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    Really? Have you read the consent order?


    Sure did, and I stand by my assessment. The result of the Committee and the judge's order is that DWSD will now operate independently of other city agencies. It will have its own Human Resources, Legal, and Purchasing agencies and contracts and water rates for suburban wholesale customers, as well as contracts, will not have to go City Council for approval. Now, let's take a look at what the real changes are. DWSD already has its own Purchasing, Legal and Human Resources Personnell. No changes there.

    City Council not having the ability to approve the rates for the suburbs won't change the fact that there will be increases to the rates since the Board of Water Commissioners and the Department have been the party recommending the increases. So the complaints from the suburbs over the increases are not going to stop.

    The most significant change is that City Council approval will no longer be required and DWSD no longer has to comply with the laws that call for a fair bidding process. Which had been done before by Judge Fiekens granting the Mayor Special Administrator authority [[ see, Kwame, Bernard, Mercado, FBI to see how well that works).

    So, is the pollution a result of the City having a fair bid process?
    Is Council having the authority to vote on the water rates or contracts causing the pollution?

    While you pointed out the reason why the judge issued the consent decree, it still doesn't change the fact that the decree [[plan) does nothing to actually address the pollution issue.

    What is causing the pollution?
    What is or will be done to eliminate the pollution?
    What steps are being taken to prevent pollution in the future?

    Those are the questions that need to be adequately addressed. This is nothing but a way of allowing Bing to name his own EMF for DWSD.

  23. #23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 313WX View Post
    Exactly.

    Why should I or other Detroit citizens be forced to pay for something that we can't even control, especially when we're the ones that paid to build the infrastructure in the first place? The suburbs BEGGED US for the water service so they could move to 47 mile and oakleyorchardmiddlebelt rd, not the other way around. If they wanted fresh water and a sewage system at 47 mile and oaklkeyorchardgarfieldmiddlebelt red. and to control to control it then they should have built their own.

    And what profits does this system bring in exactly? Whatever money it does bring in more likely than not goes straight back into the operating costs.
    Umm, the suburbs never "begged" to be part of the system; Detroit regularly solicited suburbs to join the system. Some of the system was built by county road commissions and much local infrastructure was paid for and built by local communities. My community's water main was replaced several years ago, built by a contractor they hired, and paid for by a special millage on its citizens.

  24. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kraig View Post
    While you pointed out the reason why the judge issued the consent decree, it still doesn't change the fact that the decree [[plan) does nothing to actually address the pollution issue.

    What is causing the pollution?
    What is or will be done to eliminate the pollution?
    What steps are being taken to prevent pollution in the future?
    The root cause committee's report explained the difficulties in maintaining compliance with the CWA and suggested remedies which the court adopted.

  25. #25

    Default

    I can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading, here, particularly the very elementary line of "why should I pay for something I can't control?" People get pissed when they here people say this about a possible regional transit system, so what's the difference, here? To be quite frank, the water system has long since physically become a regional system, literally. I see absolutely nothing wrong with municipal ownership and regional management given its mission and physical breadth. Something as physically extensive as a regional water system shouldn't be a city department.

    I'm a strong proponent of city ownership and management...where it makes sense. Things like water systems and transit system should be regional authorities as far as I'm concerned. This is not to mention that other services have been effectively regionalized with retention of city ownership. Cobo and the zoo are better off managed by parties other than the city. I see absolutely nothing wrong with DWSD Board of Commissioners with a more equitable distribution of its seats representing a more regional approach to decision making.

    As to the actual court order, what I'm reading is that the biggest change will give the director more administrative powers. I don't have a problem with that, either. It takes some of the politics out of the operating of the system. The only thing I have qualms about is the added powers that allow the director to outsource operations without board consent and overhauling work rules.
    Last edited by Dexlin; November-05-11 at 06:28 PM.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Instagram
BEST ONLINE FORUM FOR
DETROIT-BASED DISCUSSION
DetroitYES Awarded BEST OF DETROIT 2015 - Detroit MetroTimes - Best Online Forum for Detroit-based Discussion 2015

ENJOY DETROITYES?


AND HAVE ADS REMOVED DETAILS »





Welcome to DetroitYES! Kindly Consider Turning Off Your Ad BlockingX
DetroitYES! is a free service that relies on revenue from ad display [regrettably] and donations. We notice that you are using an ad-blocking program that prevents us from earning revenue during your visit.
Ads are REMOVED for Members who donate to DetroitYES! [You must be logged in for ads to disappear]
DONATE HERE »
And have Ads removed.