Anti-bullying bill passed by state Senate

[lilpup]

The state Senate passed an anti-bullying bill yesterday after inserting some First Amendment protection language that has riled a few folks.

I don't understand why there need to be anti-bullying bills in the first place. What's covered by them that isn't already covered by harassment and hate crime laws already on the books?

[bailey]

The state Senate passed an anti-bullying bill yesterday after inserting some First Amendment protection language that has riled a few folks.

I don't understand why there need to be anti-bullying bills in the first place. What's covered by them that isn't already covered by harassment and hate crime laws already on the books?

Without debating the merits of anti-bullying bills.... this particular abortion passed by the senate is off the charts reprehensible. What emerged from that chamber is a checklist on how to bully a kid to suicide and not be punished in anyway. Brought to you by god's gentle loving people.

the majority leadership of this state and the region on just about every issue, great and small, is generally depressing and disappointing, but really, this is a new low.

[Novine]

"I don't understand why there need to be anti-bullying bills in the first place. What's covered by them that isn't already covered by harassment and hate crime laws already on the books?"

These have nothing to do with hate crime laws. What was requested was legislation directing the public school to have anti-bullying policies in place. Some bullying incidents rise to the level of requiring police involvement. But the idea is to have policies in place to stop bullying before it ever gets to that point. Unless you believe that the best policy is to let things escalate to the point that the police need to get involved and then address the problem.

[Locke09]

I just looked at the legislation and I'm having a hard time understanding the uproar.

I don't think there should be a laundry list of specific things kids can't be bullied over attached to the legislation. They shouldn't be bullied over anything: economic status, intellectual capacity, sexual orientation, having a severe overbite, hair color, the list could go on and on indefinitely.

I also have no problem with the clause that says this is not intended to prevent anyone's First Amendment rights. First Amendment rights do not give you the right to bully anyone, just the freedom to express your opinions. If calmly expressing your opinion is classified as bullying, then we are all in trouble.

I was a little confused by the clause exempting school employees. I would love to know the rationale for that, but I don't see the problem with the rest of the bill.

[bailey]

I just looked at the legislation and I'm having a hard time understanding the uproar.

I don't think there should be a laundry list of specific things kids can't be bullied over attached to the legislation. They shouldn't be bullied over anything: economic status, intellectual capacity, sexual orientation, having a severe overbite, hair color, the list could go on and on indefinitely.

I also have no problem with the clause that says this is not intended to prevent anyone's First Amendment rights. First Amendment rights do not give you the right to bully anyone, just the freedom to express your opinions. If calmly expressing your opinion is classified as bullying, then we are all in trouble.

I was a little confused by the clause exempting school employees. I would love to know the rationale for that, but I don't see the problem with the rest of the bill.

The rationale is cynical politics. Christianists are pushing this meme that they are somehow being "oppressed" if they are not allowed to tell those dirty fags exactly what they think of them and where they should go. And, just for the record, no one had a problem with the bill before the Democrats tried to put sexual orientation into the language. Yes, the bill lays out what exactly constitutes bullying, but the republican pro-bully loophole states the bill "does not prohibit a statement of a sincerely held religious belief or moral conviction of a school employee, school volunteer, pupil, or a pupil’s parent or guardian.”

So, for instance, say I were a teacher. This law would allow me to stand in front of a class of 9th graders and explain to the entire class [[every day if I so chose) why fourteen year old Billy in the first row over by the window is a fag who I think should be expelled from school because he's evil and sinful and frankly we'd all be better off as a society and as a country if all the "billys" just killed themselves.

That is my sincerely held religious belief and moral conviction.

The issue is that the exception swallows the rule. The issue is that this was done purposefully, willfully, and maliciously.

[MSUguy]

Gotta love that compassinate convervatism.

[lilpup]

Sorry, but anyone who thinks bullying is directly responsible for suicides knows nothing about suicide. And the First Amendment protection covers all, not just those who have a problem with gays. A Christian gay person could just as easily go after a person of another persuasion, or even kids of military personnel.

[XDetroitr]

Sorry, but anyone who thinks bullying is directly responsible for suicides knows nothing about suicide...

That's quite a disturbing statement. 'lilpup' is obviously not gay and was never been bullied in school. Those of us who have had the bad fortune of personally experiencing this wonderful life event, strongly disagree.

There is a stunning amount of ignorance and arrogance surrounding this topic. "What's the big deal, everyone gets bullied..." is the usually reaction to anti-bullying legislation. Until someone is affected personally, they just don't get it.

[Islandman]

Not to defend what he said, but I think what he meant that when someone goes so far as to commit suicide when bullied, there may be other factors at play.

I got plenty bullied, all the way to my mom actually watching as I finally stood up to the bastard and getting my ass handed to me. I was a small guy back then.

[bailey]

Sorry, but anyone who thinks bullying is directly responsible for suicides knows nothing about suicide. And the First Amendment protection covers all, not just those who have a problem with gays. A Christian gay person could just as easily go after a person of another persuasion, or even kids of military personnel.

Are you fucking kidding me? Yeah, lots of "gay christians" are running around beating down army brats to the point they feel that suicide, skipping school, or self medicating is the only answer to their daily torment. Are you for real?

What do YOU think happens in your average middle and high school? Think there are roving bands of gay bullies making life hell for the good christian teens out there?

Look, bullying--and the most picked on kids are the ones who are, or are perceived to be, gay---may not be the only reason kids kill themselves, but its a hellofa big contributing factor to the yearly total.

Suicide is the third leading cause of death among young people, resulting in about 4,400 deaths per year, according to the CDC. For every suicide among young people, there are at least 100 suicide attempts. Over 14 percent of high school students have considered suicide, and almost 7 percent have attempted it.

The suicide risk is five times greater for LGBT teens than for their heterosexual peers pursuant to a study this year in Pediatrics. Why? according to the study, those who contemplated suicide cited abuse by their peers..

Bully victims are between 2 to 9 times more likely to consider suicide than non-victims, according to studies by Yale University

A recent study in Britain found that at least half of suicides among young people are related to bullying

According to statistics reported by ABC News, 160,000 kids stay home from school every day because of fear of bullying

Can we legislate bullying out of existance? probably not. But this law as written, lays out a road map on how to bully and get away with it. It will be worse for bullied kids in Michigan than if the legislature had done nothing.

[maxx]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...sEnabled=false

Michigan anti-bullying law allows bullying of gay students, activists say

Keith Olberman's show featured Gretchen Whitmer expressing her disgust before the lege.

[lilpup]

Gays are as capable of bullying as anyone else. Too be perfectly honest a LOT of gays aren't overly tolerant.

But to the point - suicide has biological and genetic basis. It is NOT caused by bullying.

[1953]

I'm with lilpup on this...bullying laws are nonsense.

[lilpup]

I really don't have a problem with bullying laws, but the reaction this bill has sparked in certain quarters is absolute nonsense.

[bailey]

I really don't have a problem with bullying laws, but the reaction this bill has sparked in certain quarters is absolute nonsense.

your posts are absolute nonsense. just stop.

[CassTechGrad]

Teacher suspended over alleged teacher to student bullying incident

Jay McDowell, a high school teacher in Howell, Michigan, was suspended for two days by school district officials, says the Detroit News, after he disciplined two students who said they could not accept homosexuals because of their religious beliefs. McDowell, who is also president of the Howell Education Association, the local teachers’ union, has filed a grievance saying the officials have overacted.
The incident began after a student asked McDowell, who was wearing a purple T-shirt to raise awareness of anti-gay harassment for national Anti-Bullying Day, why he had asked a student to remove her Confederate flag belt buckle. A discussion followed, ending with McDowell suspending two students from his class for the rest of the period.
McDowell received a letter of reprimand from the school district, which stated that he was suspended because the district deemed that he had deviated from the approved curriculum, made a snap suspension judgment and violated one student’s First Amendment rights. “You went on to discipline two students who told you they do not accept gays due to their religion,” the letter stated. “After a failure of getting one student to recant, you engaged in an unsupported snap suspension, rather than allow the student his beliefs. … This could be construed as teacher-to-student bullying, ironic of the Anti-Bullying Day intent

[Locke09]

I was bullied plenty in school: for being too skinny, for being too poor, for being "too smart", for being a nerd. It was mostly verbal - unrelenting verbal harassment and intimidation. But, there was always an underlying threat of physical harm. The idea of committing suicide never crossed my mind. I knew school was only temporary. I also had plenty of family support to reinforce that I was destined for great things.

I repeat that kids are bullied for all sorts of reasons, and being gay is just one of them. And yes, Christian kids can be bullied for their fatih, especially as society becomes more secular [[which it is). A person of any religion now can make the claim that they are made to appear to be idiots if they believe that there is a God.

Your First Amendment rights do not allow you to attempt to prohibit a child from getting an education or make them extremely uncomfortable while they are getting one. I know many Christians and I don't know one who would do what bailey described. If they did, no First Amendment right should or would protect them, because even that right has its limitations.

But I do not want to see any legislation prevent anyone from expressing their beliefs, even when their beliefs differ from mine.

[Don K]

Gays are as capable of bullying as anyone else. Too be perfectly honest a LOT of gays aren't overly tolerant.

But to the point - suicide has biological and genetic basis. It is NOT caused by bullying.

Well, I'll admit I'm not too tolerant of people who want to toss me into prison, get me fired, beat the crap out of me, or kill me... Let me know when you hear of bands of gay kids berating straight kids, telling them they're worthless pieces of crap who should just kill themselves, or beating them up.

As adults, most of us develop thick skins about life's little [[or sometimes not so little) slights [[although in general I find certain Christians to be more thin-skinned than most). This shell takes time to develop, and middle and high school students may take the language to heart, especially if they think they're the only gay kids in school and they're all alone in facing it.

Policies are necessary because many school administrators have a fine ability to ignore bullying, not wanting to make waves, especially if the perps are popular kids, or jocks, or cheerleaders.

Interestingly, the Christians who control the legislature were fine with a list of characteristics that included religion, race, weight, etc., as long as the words "sexual orientation" weren't included, but inclusion of the magic words suddenly made it "special rights" legislation.

The legislation as written is worse than nothing, because it gives the bullies instructions on how to bully with impunity. Instead of saying, "You're a worthless piece of pond scum who shouldn't be allowed to live," they just have to say, "Jesus tells me you're a worthless piee of pond scum who shouldn't be allowed to live, amen."

The Republican Party of Michigan, dragging us down to the level of Mississippi and Alabama, one step at a time...

[lilpup]

Well, I'll admit I'm not too tolerant of people who want to toss me into prison, get me fired, beat the crap out of me, or kill me... Let me know when you hear of bands of gay kids berating straight kids, telling them they're worthless pieces of crap who should just kill themselves, or beating them up.

The knee-jerk, uninformed gay activists' reaction to this bill is bullying in itself. They'd never recognize it as such, though.

[MSUguy]

I really don't have a problem with bullying laws, but the reaction this bill has sparked in certain quarters is absolute nonsense.

What is nonsense is your defense of their bigotry. The "moral conviction" exemption is not protecting free speech it big ass loophole that permits bullying of gay students.

[lilpup]

What is nonsense is your defense of their bigotry. The "moral conviction" exemption is not protecting free speech it big ass loophole that permits bullying of gay students.

Good thing you aren't a lawyer because you'd lose. AND you're intolerant. AND all this fuss is over a bill that has only passed the legislative chamber that wrote.

[Goose]

its amazing that people think by passing some dumb legislation that any personal beliefs or feeling will instantly be supressed.... this law is more show than substance.... its a distraction from real issues in our state and a waste of time.....

[oladub]

I looked up the definition of "bully".

"Use superior strength or influence to intimidate [[someone), typically to force him or her to do what one wants."

Then I went to Wikipedia for an expanded definition of "bullying".

"Bullying is a form of aggressivebehavior, which may manifest as abusive treatment, the use of force or coercion to affect others, particularly when habitual and involving an imbalance of power. It may involve verbal harassment, physical assault orcoercion and may be directed persistently towards particular victims, perhaps on grounds of race, religion, gender, sexuality, or ability. The "imbalance of power" may be social power and/or physical power. The victim of bullying is sometimes referred to as a "target."Bullying consists of three basic types of abuse – emotional, verbal, and physical. It typically involves subtle methods of coercion such as intimidation. Bullying can be defined in many different ways.
Bullying ranges from simple one-on-one bullying to more complex bullying in which the bully may have one or more 'lieutenants' who may seem to be willing to assist the primary bully in his bullying activities. Bullying in school and the workplace is also referred to as peer abuse.Robert W. Fuller has analyzed bullying in the context of rankism.
Bullying can occur in any context in which human beings interact with each other. This includes school, church, family, theworkplace, home, and neighborhoods. It is even a common push factor in migration. Bullying can exist between social groups,social classes, and even between countries [[see jingoism). In fact, on an international scale, perceived or real imbalances of power between nations, in both economic systems and in treaty systems, are often cited as some of the primary causes of both World War I and World War II."

[Ravine]

Gays are as capable of bullying as anyone else. Too be perfectly honest a LOT of gays aren't overly tolerant.

But to the point - suicide has biological and genetic basis. It is NOT caused by bullying.

Yeah, of course that is true, just as it is true that "there is crime in the suburbs, too."
Following my comparison, just as we don't see folks moving out of Birmingham because of crime-- because, in comparison to Detroit, there isn't much of a crime problem-- the percentage of bullying that is committed by gays is so small, in comparison to the bullying committed against gays [[or those perceived to be gay,) that your "true" statement is, in its essence, an irrelevant, lame mis-direction of this discussion.

[gazhekwe]

The trouble with defining "bullying" is, it can be utterly subjective what is and is not bullying. There was a director at my office who was dead set against bullying. She would stand up at every meeting and decry the bullying and say it has to stop. Yet she never ever seemed to directly address it with anyone, at least, I never heard of it if she did. None of us were ever sure what or who she meant. To this day, I don't know if I was one of the "bullies" she was indirectly addressing. Were efforts by managers to increase compliance and productivity [[at her direction) good, or were they "bullying?"

The key to addressing bullying, in my humble opinion, has to start with directly addressing the parties and defining what has happened and how it is not acceptable.