DDOT's survival

**R8RBOB** · November-02-11, 10:01 AM

Last night, WXYZ showed a report on the issues that passengers of DDOT face each day in Detroit. If you didn't see the video, I would suggest going to http://www.wxyz.com/subindex/video to view the video.

We have to wonder, what is the future for DDOT? We know that a reduced population means less tax dollars to fund things like DDOT so how do DDOT survive with Bing and City Council cutting everything to the bone? We know that SMART will not merge with DDOT so should the city get rid of DDOT and pay SMART to run DDOT routes?

As it stands right now, DDOT is broken. The only people who ride DDOT are those who can't afford a car, can't drive because they don't have a license or it's suspended. The system will not survive as it stand so what happens next?

**stasu1213** · November-02-11, 05:50 PM

Maybe Smart should take over the main bus routes such as Michigan, Woodward, GrandRiver, Jefferson into Grosse Pointe, and Gratiot. DDOt could still operate smaller lines such as Clairemount, Joy, Russel, Hayes, Caniff, Dexter, and Hamilton. Express busses could be only to pick up those who work downtown and go nonstop until it crosses over from the city limit.

**BrushStart** · November-02-11, 05:56 PM

I have a novel idea... Why don't we merge the existing bus systems under one unified regional system to take advantage of economies of scale, save money, and improve service for everyone?

Oh... wait...

**Packards1** · November-02-11, 06:42 PM

Who in their right mind would want any part of the DDot bus system. The entire operation is broken, and burdened by people who obviously can't transport passengers like most cities in the country can. We all know that there is no leadership or there would not be 100 buses out of service.

**antongast** · November-02-11, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by Packards1

We all know that there is no money or there would not be 100 buses out of service.

Fixed that for you.

**animatedmartian** · November-02-11, 06:52 PM

Eliminate the system completely, redraw routes, redo the budget, and hire some unicorns to pull the buses. Problem solved!

**R8RBOB** · November-02-11, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by Packards1

Who in their right mind would want any part of the DDot bus system. The entire operation is broken, and burdened by people who obviously can't transport passengers like most cities in the country can. We all know that there is no leadership or there would not be 100 buses out of service.

And there it is.....

Fifty plus years of a bus-only transit system have bought DDOT to its knees. Fifty plus years of pushing sprawl in which the people who moved to the boonies are required to have a car killed any talk of a real transit network for Metro Detroit. Fifty plus years of city/suburb division and division between the races is the reason why DDOT is on life support and SMART is fighting to survive.

It will always amazes me how a region as big as Metro Detroit could go for generations without a real mass transit network.

**313WX** · November-02-11, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

And there it is.....

Fifty plus years of a bus-only transit system have bought DDOT to its knees. Fifty plus years of pushing sprawl in which the people who moved to the boonies are required to have a car killed any talk of a real transit network for Metro Detroit. Fifty plus years of city/suburb division and division between the races is the reason why DDOT is on life support and SMART is fighting to survive.

It will always amazes me how a region as big as Metro Detroit could go for generations without a real mass transit network.

Very well said.

As for Antongast's fix, no Packards1 has it right, there's no good leadership in place, city nor suburbs. The money is there, it just will never [[in our lifetime) be used to fix our mass transit problems.

And for those proposing SMART take over some routes, ummm, you do realize SMART can't even handle the routes they alerady have right, since they're close to slashing services by 25% and virtually eliminating city/suburb service, yes?

**R8RBOB** · November-02-11, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Very well said.

As for Antongast's fix, no Packards1 has it right, there's no good leadership in place, city nor suburbs. The money is there, it just will never [[in our lifetime) be used to fix our mass transit problems.

And for those proposing SMART take over some routes, ummm, you do realize SMART can't even handle the routes they alerady have right, since they're close to slashing services by 25% and virtually eliminating city/suburb service, yes?

I am aware of the problems with SMART which is also suffering with DDOT for one very important reason: no one will ride a bus if they don't have to.

Public transportation should be a choice. That is, if I don't feel like driving on a particular day I should be able to to hop on some form of public transportation and off I go. The method of transportation should be dependable and I should not have to wait hours to use. It could be light-rail or a train or shuttle or a ferry or a bus but it has to be dependable for me to park my car. Here in Metro Detroit we have no such method of transportation except buses and no one with an automobile is going to park it just to ride a bus unless the car is broke down. Too bad the local leaders never understood that

**Hypestyles** · November-02-11, 10:35 PM

mass transit is a civil right. Occupy the SMART and DDOT headquarters. Picket the county executive offices. Force them to come up with a concrete plan that merges transit service for the metro area and expands service to assorted communities.

**Dexlin** · November-03-11, 02:51 AM

There is like a half-dozen threads on this exact issue since I've been here, and I haven't even been here that long. It comes down to one simple thing: Metro Detroit spends less on mass transit than any other large metropolitan area in the country. Competence and such are issues, but first and foremost it's lack of money, and more particularly, an unwillingness by the area as a whole to adequately pay for and fund the things that it wants. You pay for a Walmart bus system, you get a Walmart bus system, and really, that's kind of unfair to Walmart because at least they recognize economies of scale.

BTW, SMART would be no more capable of runnng service in Detroit than DDOT. The only reason SMART "works" -- and I put it in quotes because it barely does -- is that they don't have to run nearly same-sized operation as Detroit. DDOT carries more than twice the daily ridership of SMART along different kind of routes. It's apples and oranges. As for merging the two, who in the right mind would want to take on either of these two's debt in a merged system, particularly DDOT's?

**R8RBOB** · November-03-11, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Dexlin

There is like a half-dozen threads on this exact issue since I've been here, and I haven't even been here that long. It comes down to one simple thing: Metro Detroit spends less on mass transit than any other large metropolitan area in the country. Competence and such are issues, but first and foremost it's lack of money, and more particularly, an unwillingness by the area as a whole to adequately pay for and fund the things that it wants. You pay for a Walmart bus system, you get a Walmart bus system, and really, that's kind of unfair to Walmart because at least they recognize economies of scale.

BTW, SMART would be no more capable of runnng service in Detroit than DDOT. The only reason SMART "works" -- and I put it in quotes because it barely does -- is that they don't have to run nearly same-sized operation as Detroit. DDOT carries more than twice the daily ridership of SMART along different kind of routes. It's apples and oranges. As for merging the two, who in the right mind would want to take on either of these two's debt in a merged system, particularly DDOT's?

Your words says it all. For decades, the leaders of Metro Detroit talked about public transportation but they would let the talk just die out.

In regards to DDOT and SMART, we have to understand that one service is teetering on death while the other one is barely holding on. We know that these are two failing systems but if both die the region has nothing so I wonder if one should die to give the other a fighting chance?

**BW7085** · November-03-11, 12:53 PM

I beleive that mass transit was never the plan for Detroit because if it was the powers to be back in the 1920,30,40 would have made it happen like other cities did. But being that we were the [[Motor City) maker of cars the big three was making way to much profit to push for or back a politician who was for mass transit. They were to busy promoting discounts for there employees to buy cars and discounts for family members of employees. We just promoted having cars for transportation.

**mrpatlast** · November-03-11, 01:13 PM

DDOT doesn't deserve to exist, SMART can't afford to exist and the LRT can't exist without an Regional Transit Authority. I think Snyder's BRT will put both of them [[DDOT SMART) out of business thus skirting the cost of merging two systems with unsustainable legacy and operational costs. The LRT's challenge is getting regional consensus on a system that will start out initially only operating in the city.

I'm all for an RTA using BRT. Same service, half the infrastructure and operations cost. It only makes sense that the motor city move on wheels and this is from someone who can't stand the auto-industries crippling influence on the way Detroit has developed.

**Dexlin** · November-04-11, 12:35 AM

No. BRT and LRT can serve particular routes [[namely longer, commuter routes), but you still need regular old buses for regular, old every-day routes. BRT and LRT aren't the base of any transit system. Even New York City has buses. Buses still have to be the base of any system.

**redvetred** · November-04-11, 05:53 AM

This morning's walkout sure helps their cause:

DETROIT [[WXYZ) - Hundreds of DDOT bus drivers are refusing to run their routes this morning.
We're getting reports that up to 100 drivers won't be hitting the roads.
Sources tell 7 Action News drivers want some sort of protection or safety plan implemented after a bus driver was assaulted Thursday.
A recorded message by DDOT is alerting riders that buses will be running late today. However, the message did not say how long of wait riders will be seeing.

Read more: http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region/...#ixzz1cjUdSGRn

**animatedmartian** · November-04-11, 06:00 AM

I thought buses had plain clothed cops on them? I'm really about to go on a rant but how does 100 people walk off a job if 1 person gets assaulted? That's statistically stupid.

**SWMAP** · November-04-11, 06:25 AM

That's "statistically" powerful. That's, for better or worse, standing with your brother who has been hurt.

**R8RBOB** · November-04-11, 06:42 AM

Originally Posted by redvetred

This morning's walkout sure helps their cause:

DETROIT [[WXYZ) - Hundreds of DDOT bus drivers are refusing to run their routes this morning.
We're getting reports that up to 100 drivers won't be hitting the roads.
Sources tell 7 Action News drivers want some sort of protection or safety plan implemented after a bus driver was assaulted Thursday.
A recorded message by DDOT is alerting riders that buses will be running late today. However, the message did not say how long of wait riders will be seeing.

Read more: http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region/...#ixzz1cjUdSGRn

Watching that video was like reading a transit thread on DYes. The bus driver nailing down the truth about transportation woes in Metro Detroit.

**animatedmartian** · November-04-11, 07:17 AM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

That's "statistically" powerful. That's, for better or worse, standing with your brother who has been hurt.

They updated the story with a video, and I understand that if it's a rising trend then it needs to be addressed. But I guess I just feel for those who depend on the bus and the ripple effect this causes.

**R8RBOB** · November-04-11, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

They updated the story with a video, and I understand that if it's a rising trend then it needs to be addressed. But I guess I just feel for those who depend on the bus and the ripple effect this causes.

The thing is everyone loses. As the bus driver said in the video, passengers take out their frustrations on the drivers. Shitty service will raise anyone blood pressure and add on desperadoes who prey on passengers at bus stops and it makes driving and riding a bus a challenge.

There should be an officer on every bus but that cost money and we are in the cutting mode.

**cramerro** · November-04-11, 07:36 AM

... send some picketers to Bing's house, blockade city hall, pack the city council chambers, I can think of 1,000 things to do that could get across a message that wouldn't royally screw 10,000's of people who can't choose to not show up for work.

**SWMAP** · November-04-11, 08:42 AM

I just feel for those who depend on the bus and the ripple effect this causes

None of the people who depend on the buses - no one - helped the bus driver. But congratulations to the person who made the video.

**EastsideAl** · November-04-11, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

That's "statistically" powerful. That's, for better or worse, standing with your brother who has been hurt.

It's also stranding thousands of people out in the cold who count on you doing the damn job you're paid to do. And who also, not coincidentally, would be the biggest natural supporters of efficient and safe transit. How the hell does it "support your brothers" to screw and alienate innocent passengers who are just trying to get to work while you stay home watching Jerry Springer? A dumb ass move that's sure to cost them any public support they may still have had.