Godbee Wants Gunshot Locators to End "GunPLAY"

[Gannon]

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Right.

Because, as we've always known...technology forces change in cultures...and these shooters are only PLAYING. Un-huh.


Of course...it is only logical. We can see how our culture has been altered by technology...cell phones, computers, compact flourescent bulbs...

But the City Council wonders if there will be any police available to respond to them. Some say the money would be better spent elsewhere.

I say a compromise is in order. Buy a much smaller number of the PORTABLE units, which can triangulate targeted areas with a dedicated team that WILL respond. Start outside the troublesome clubs downtown...

Maybe take 75% of those damn cops sitting around watching the peaceful protestors in the park, put those folks to actual work chasing actual criminals. It is sick, a friend who works on Washington Boulevard has told me she watches at least four cop cars parked in a line outside her office every day since the peaceful protest began. Did I mention it is peaceful?!

But back to the task at hand, because the City Council has to vote on this tomorrow, according to the Freep story. What say y'all...do we need more technology watching over this town, policed by too few...stretched too thin...using equipment that is substandard due to neglect?!

I've heard direct reporting of the shitty condition of the cars some of my cop friends and associates have to patrol in...one had their electrical system fail while on duty, they had to drive back to the station without any parking or headlights!


I say no...but if a compromise has to happen, buy the portable system instead of wiring up the whole damn town.


Sincerely,
John

[brizee]

Buy them. Immediately.

Not every gunshot is going to be heard and reported.

If it gets even one habitual murderer or attempted-murderer off the street it's worth it.

[Scottathew]

Buy them. Immediately.

Not every gunshot is going to be heard and reported.

If it gets even one habitual murderer or attempted-murderer off the street it's worth it.

Yes, but what if we spent that same amount of money on more cops. Would it be more effective in getting murderers off the street?

I'm not saying that I'm right, but I do see a strong argument that knowing where a gunshot happened doesn't help us do anything if no cops respond.

[Autoracks]

yea every time some broke detroiters jalopy backfires the police show up? Doubt it.
Haven't they recently decided to not show up for home invasions or home alarms or something?

[Scottathew]

Haven't they recently decided to not show up for home invasions or home alarms or something?

Unverified alarms, because something like 98% or 99% were false alarms.

[jolla]

I'm not saying that I'm right, but I do see a strong argument that knowing where a gunshot happened doesn't help us do anything if no cops respond.

From the article [[bolding mine):

Brown also questioned whether the department has enough staffing to respond to the runs resulting from the sensors, which officials have said would be reported both to dispatch and directly to officers in patrol cars.
That would cut response times, said Godbee, noting there would be dedicated resources in areas where the sensors are deployed.

It looks as though DPD is planning to respond.

[Gannon]

yea every time some broke detroiters jalopy backfires the police show up? Doubt it.
Haven't they recently decided to not show up for home invasions or home alarms or something?

No, the sonic signatures are distinctly different. Same with fireworks.

After you've been around weapons, you can almost positively identify the caliber by the sound made even at a distance...and programming a computer to recognize each is not a problem. The speed and resolution of these devices allows very precise localization from triangulation...but I disagree that they can prove the direction the perp left the scene beyond the points where they pulled the trigger. A trend would indicate direction, but nobody would know if they turned a corner and actually went in the OPPOSITE direction afterwards.

That sort of promise is a stretch.


They say it'd be six square miles on the east and west sides, and two in the center of town. That would make the rest of the city open game, and as they've PROVEN with video surveillance...the perps merely go where the technology isn't...THAT'S why I say it has to be portable. Then it can be setup anywhere...and the perps wouldn't know in advance where it might be safe to shoot.


Cheers...

[internet_pseudopod]

I have wondered why they hadn't implemented this technology years ago. I am sure that there are plenty of neighborhoods where gunshots go unreported[[ or under reported) because they are just moire of everyday life.

With that being said, this plan should only be considered if there is an accompanying plan to increase deployment of these devices over the rest of the city in the next few years.

[One Shot]

I think its a complete waste of time. Seen this technology on tv for use in the military to track a sniper which seems better suited given the environment. A lone gunman in a city doesn't stick around after he fires a shot.
A change in culture would be a better first step and thats never gonna happen.

[Scottathew]

A change in culture would be a better first step and thats never gonna happen.

I agree. But the people of Detroit have had to adapt to a lack of police response. That's why I think gunshot sensors are a total waste until we can get better responses to human beings calling for help.

[FlyByDon]

What about the drive-by's and the gone in sixty seconds perpetrators? Sorry, this city needs more personal on the streets not behind computer screens and desks. Spend those government dollars on more beat officers and street lights. My 2¢ worth.

[brizee]

These devices have been profiled on documentary television before. As soon as a gunshot is heard a camera is pointed in it's direction and starts.

911 after hearing a shot isn't a replacement for that.

It's been transformative in other crime ridden areas of the country. Why does Detroit have to be special? Again?

[Gannon]

This is the first I've heard of directional cameras.

That is a game-changer, for sure.

They really have to be distributed throughout the town then, or there will be hotspots where idiots will feel more free to waste a little lead.

Or is this the daring first move towards Mayor Bong's DetroitWorks concept?! I can hear the Public Service Announcement now, "If you don't move, you could get shot." Six months later, "Move, you're gonna get shot."


What are they going to do for New Year's Eve?!


If we throw in glass-break sensors, and create a zero-breakage policy...with specific task forces for quick response...then I'm in.



How soon until they make smell detectors? Fashion faux pax analyzers? When does it end...because they always sell you on the most offensive problem's inarguable solution first...kinda like the pushers, the first one is a gimme.


And that pushy Big Brother IS our friend.


As I said, I'm all for portable targeted sets...but don't want them permanent. You say they've been proven effective, I say at MOVING the crime...not changing a thing. Measure that one block that is covered...favorable statistics. Average it over the whole town...it may not really change anything except move a few gunplayas away from 14 total square miles out of what...143?


Yep. Proven effective, they'll be. For the chosen 10% of town.


Cheers!
John

[Gannon]

Detroit Police Chief Ralph Godbee Jr. said the technology would be paid for with federal forfeiture dollars and grant money.

What are federal forfeiture dollars...and where does this grant money come from?! Do they get to 'direct' where their money is spent...where these bullet-tracking cameras are placed? Are there already cameras at intersections which can be adapted to this technology...perhaps to reduce or share the costs a bit?

<sigh>


So many questions...

[Gannon]

In a careful re-read, there is NO mention of cameras at all...only sensors.

Godbee doesn't know if it'll take 200 or 300 sensors to cover that meager 14 square miles...but the price is oddly the same no matter what...2.7 million bucks that he says will come from somewhere else. If that is the case, why the vote and appropriations from Council?! Why the sales pitch?

Oh, and EVERY alert will be handled by the selling company's monitors IN CALIFORNIA. That means it relies upon a fully-functioning high-speed internet connection...and continual payments for this additional service. I know for SURE there exists a portable system that the military has been using for YEARS that triangulates snipers nearly instantaneously, and requires no such outside non-police supervision.

Do we REALLY want to invest in a system that is dependent upon some remote humans with unknown reliability...and obviously no ties to the city?!

This is beginning to smell...

[Jimaz]

What are federal forfeiture dollars....

Asset forfeiture is controversial because it allows property to be seized even if the owner had nothing to do with the crime [[among other reasons).

[Gannon]

OH, fucking Godbee is planning on using drug monies not yet grabbed...of course.


Because he KNOWS it is a sure thing...he's got a list of people who grow their own medicine now.


Thanks, Jimaz.

[SWMAP]

I think there are about 30 cities that employ this technology. Think Flint may be one.

This article from a few years ago is interesting:

January 20, 2009 By Elaine Rundle
Johns Hopkins University, located in Baltimore, now has the capability to track gunshots at its Homewood campus and the off-site Charles Village neighborhood where many of the school's students and employees reside. The Homewood campus -- which according to the university's Web site, is its main academic and administrative center -- doesn't include the health system, which is located in east Baltimore.
Launched in November 2008, the gunshot detection system is composed of 93 sensors that are installed on city-owned streetlights and off-campus university buildings. The sensors detect the acoustic signature from a gunshot and wirelessly transmit the information to a receiving station. According to the press release, the information is then forwarded over a secure network to the communication center, and this process takes three to five seconds. Located at the campus communication center is a 40-inch LCD screen that displays the gunshot's location and the nearest address and building for dispatch.
"They have these little boxes on the streetlights on the perimeter of the campus, and those boxes detect any gunshots and relay it back to another building where our security is located," said Tracey Reeves, a spokeswoman for the university. "And they have the TV screens there, and if a red flash comes up, then the call goes to the Baltimore City Police."
Campus security officers -- who are unarmed and therefore unable to respond to possible shootings -- report the information to the Baltimore Police Department.
"Working together with the Baltimore Police Department, I believe that this new addition to our security measures will benefit our campus population as well as our neighbors in the surrounding area," said Edmund Skrodzki, executive director of campus safety and security at the Homewood campus, in the press release. "By allowing us to identify gunshot occurrences accurately, we can give the Baltimore Police Department the ability to respond quickly, to give aid to victims as well as to apprehend the criminals. Being proactive and using the best technology tools available often deters crime, enhancing the safety and security of our students and our community."

[Danny]

That is sharp ideal. Built a gun shooting detection device and lower violent crime in the ghettoes and catch the perp who did the shooting. This might workin Detroit. However can these devices be hidden from perps who spot these anti shooting devices? Would the poping like noices firecrackers and other devices detect the anti shooting device? I hope someone had the knowhow to create an electronic fail safe device for that machine.

[lilpup]

Yes, there are people who go out just to play with their guns. Even in Ann Arbor I've heard automatic weapons fire in the wee hours from some yahoo who just had to go to a city park or the Arb to peel off a few rounds. Of course the cops can never get there fast enough to find the reckless jerks.

There's a neighborhood over by Willow Run that has installed camera technology at the entrances and added sheriff bike patrols in the summer, especially good for meet and greet purposes. They still have incidents but nothing like they used to.

There's no valid argument against technology being used in public spaces. No one has a right to privacy in a public space.

[detroitsgwenivere]

I just love how so many on this board have so much faith in Detroit's law enforcement. "If it takes just one mass-murderer off the streets..."

The problem is, this technology isn't meant to do that. It's meant to help police go after "gunplay." Which is the bigger problem, 350 people being murdered this year or people shooting their pistol into the air on New Years?

Get them f*ckin donut munchin desk jockeys off their asses and send them out onto the streets and stop wasting my tax dollars going after stupid sh*t. And furthermore, if you're scared of the sound of a few gunshots you live in the wrong city. Hell, the wrong country.

[lilpup]

Oh, yes, let's ignore all the illegal gun discharges in the city - it's not as if any of them are related to murders, now, is it?

[DetroitPlanner]

Godbee is planning on using drug monies not yet grabbed...of course.

What?? and not spend it on hookers, lap-dances, cocaine, and tanning salons?

[Gannon]

This is back on the council's schedule, even though the Freep reports it was already voted down once.

I cannot believe it...this is a complete waste of money, which the city WILL be on the hook for when thoes drug forfeitures never happen and that mysterious grant money vaporizes.


What a scam.


No cheers on this one...

[lilpup]

It would be worth it just to avoid having cops respond to false reports, mistaken firecrackers, etc. as well as to accurately pinpoint real shots so the cops don't have to run around over such wide areas looking for suspicious activity.