Tuesday - Nov.1st Protest DTE Energy Shutoffs

[ridgeabilly]

• Events on November 1, 2011
  
  
  • March on DTE: Stop the Shutoffs!
    Starts: 1:00 pm
    Ends: 3:00 pm, November 1, 2011
    Location: Grand Circus Park to DTE Energy Plaze, 2000 Second Ave.
    Description: Our Neighborhoods need: Clean, Affordable Energy now! Make Energy Shutoffs Illegal! Stop Dirty Coal Pollution with Clean Energy Solutions! Promote Green Energy Jobs!
    

[Scottathew]

Pay your bills and you won't get shutoff.

Otherwise, if we make shutoff illegals paying customers subsidize non-paying customers. There would be greater incentive to not pay your bill if the utility has no recourse to non-payment.

If you want to help people who can't afford to pay their heating bills donate to a charity; but don't force everyone to donate to your cause.

[Bigb23]

Pay your bills and you won't get shutoff.

Otherwise, if we make shutoff illegals paying customers subsidize non-paying customers. There would be greater incentive to not pay your bill if the utility has no recourse to non-payment.

If you want to help people who can't afford to pay their heating bills donate to a charity; but don't force everyone to donate to your cause.

My power goes off several days a year when my bills are all payed upped. When I came into a little bit of money, the first things I bought were a generator, kerosene lamp, propane cylinders, candles, and a space heater. And they all were used two weeks ago, when the power went out, again.

DTE is a monopoly that answers to no one except investors. They are self enforced when it comes to regulations. Why can't they answer to citizens ?

[Trumpeteer]

My power goes off several days a year when my bills are all payed upped. When I came into a little bit of money, the first things I bought were a generator, kerosene lamp, propane cylinders, candles, and a space heater. And they all were used two weeks ago, when the power went out, again.

DTE is a monopoly that answers to no one except investors. They are self enforced when it comes to regulations. Why can't they answer to citizens ?

Oh how wrong you are. DTE is REGULATED by the MI Public Service Comission. They are not "self enforced". Once you understand that you might want to go to their site and find that residential/commercial consumers could be eligible for credits, i.e. money, for either extended or repeated service outages.

With regards to "Green Energy", MI like most electric utilities is taking steps to meet a mandate of having 10% of their generation capacity be "Green" by 2015. The quotes below are from the PSC site. Of the four "Green" generating sources mentioned only hydro and biomass are anything close to reliable enough to be included into ANY electric utility's firm generation capacity planning. Wind/solar are great IF you have wind or sunshine but when you don't a utility must have backup firm generation available to meet that demand.

"Detroit Edison has contracted for 252 MW of renewable energy: 44 MW already in commercial operation and 208 MW more in commercial operation by the end of 2011 .

Detroit Edison and Consumers Energy have contracted for a combined total of 648 MW of renewable energy: 598 MW of wind energy, 45 MW of biomass energy, 4 MW of solar PV energy, and 1 MW of hydroelectric energy."

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Make Energy Shutoffs Illegal! Stop Dirty Coal Pollution with Clean Energy Solutions! Promote Green Energy Jobs!

If you make shut offs illegal, there is very little incentive to ever pay your bill. Electricity isn't free. Also, "green energy" has no history of being less expensive to produce than traditionally produced electricity. If it did the electricity producers would already be producing it and making more money. Imposing "green energy" requirements on utilities is the fastest way to higher rates.

I would like to ask a question of Ridgeabilly and others of the same worldview: is there ANYTHING people shouldn't have if they can't/won't pay for it? I have seen people on this board protest people having to pay for their own housing, food, health care, transportation, and now utilities. What should people have to do for themselves, if anything?

I know in my heart that lefty policies keep people poor by making it just comfortable enough to eliminate incentives to move up economically. It's just so wrong. Immigrants from all over the world come here poor and barely knowing English, and ten years later they are small business owners [[a Haitian bartender I worked with owns 2 profitable small businesses in New York, and was able to donate a substantial amount of money to earthquake releif in Haiti). He did it because it was never in his mind that anyone but himself had to earn money. He started cleaning restaurants when he was 25, became a barback, and then bartender, where he made a lot of money, and he invested that in his own businesses. Where I worked in New York we had housing projects nearby [[only in NY are there projects next to luxury condos), and these housing projects had satellite dishes, a/c units, and the tenants had pets, and were in a fashionable neighborhood, no less. Wherein lies the incentive to make your own way in the world? I am less opposed to socialistic policies for their burden on the taxpayer [[although making someone pay someone else's way is wrong, too), than I am for what it does to the people that receive the life-motivation-destroying "benefits."

[Ray1936]

If 'green energy' was economically practical, private industry would be all over it. Doesn't that tell you something?

[Packards1]

I work real hard to pay my DTE and other bills. What is the purpose of going downtown to protest DTE shutting off deadbeats for non payment. If you don't pay your bill you don't get "free" power. Are people that stupid to protest what is correct and fair. There is no entitlement for free power for anyone.

[1953]

I like DTE very much and would like to plan a protest to protest the protestors. Who is with me?

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I like DTE very much and would like to plan a protest to protest the protestors. Who is with me?

Anyone showing up to protest the protestors would be counted by the media as DTE protestors, helping the ridiculous cause. Living your daily life as normal is the best counterprotest. Maybe turn on some unnecessary lights.

[antongast]

Maybe turn on some unnecessary lights.

Just to further emphasize the point that you can afford electricity and a lot of other people can't? Classy.

[Meddle]

If 'green energy' was economically practical, private industry would be all over it. Doesn't that tell you something?

Well, that's kinda like cars. There would be a lot more clean energy, cars included, if dirty energy hadn't been so aggressive in thwarting development.

Why isn't Edison using hydro off the river instead of coal?

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Just to further emphasize the point that you can afford electricity and a lot of other people can't? Classy.

Nope. To give support to DTE Under Assault. Just kidding. More to bother silly hyper-sensitive types. I would say you could see one in the mirror, but that might require turning on a light.

[antongast]

Nope. To give support to DTE Under Assault. Just kidding. More to bother silly hyper-sensitive types. I would say you could see one in the mirror, but that might require turning on a light.

I wouldn't say I'm bothered, exactly, it's just interesting how hubristic people get over something like electric bills.

[Scottathew]

If you make shut offs illegal, there is very little incentive to ever pay your bill. Electricity isn't free. Also, "green energy" has no history of being less expensive to produce than traditionally produced electricity. If it did the electricity producers would already be producing it and making more money. Imposing "green energy" requirements on utilities is the fastest way to higher rates.

And it's funny that the people organizing this protest want both free energy, and also want more expensive green energy. So the want higher expenses for DTE, but less revenue coming because we want paying to be optional.

Now where Mikey and I probably disagree is that I would like to see mandatory "green" regulations. However, I also recognize that someone has to pay for those higher costs; and it should be EVERYONE that consumes energy, not just those that feel like paying.

[SWMAP]

I have a little house on Lake Erie in Canada. Ontario moving to eliminate coal in two years. Only clean energy like wind power. I can tell you that electricity very, very expensive there already. Wind power is way more expensive to produce than anything. They also bill more forpeak time usage and put in new meters to be able to record time of usage. You are encouraged [[ by pricing) to use appliances like washing machines and dishwashers after 11 pm. I have neither, but just running a refrigerator produces bills that are twice my bill in Detroit.
I do think the juxtaposition of demand - no shutoffs AND expensive energy are odd. Like the protesters don't know what they want.

[Mark Smiles]

Well, that's kinda like cars. There would be a lot more clean energy, cars included, if dirty energy hadn't been so aggressive in thwarting development.

Why isn't Edison using hydro off the river instead of coal?

Last I heard there was a problem with the fish producing too much methane for a stable reaction.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Two of the most popular "green" energy methods of production are wind and solar. The single greatest drawback to them is that they have substantial [[and in the case of wind) unpredictable downtime. You need to have full on 24/7 energy plants, using either fossil fuel or nuclear in order to back them up. I am not in any sense opposed to supplementing our energy grid with alternative sources, but only where someone is voluntarily willing to sink their own money into it. You think putting solar panels on your house will pay for itself in savings, be my guest. Geothermal can help to heat and cool in some parts of the country.

A couple of notes of optimism rarely mentioned among the alarmist crowd: the US is now much more energy efficient than we used to be. A relatively stagnant amount of energy now powers a country with 75 million more people than 30 years ago. And we use many more electric appliances and devices than we did 30 years ago. As technology improves- driven by customer demand- the market has devised more efficient things, from better home insulation to energy efficient appliances. The second major bright spot on the energy front is that coal and gas powered plants produce- due in part to "scrubber" technology- much less toxic emissions than they used to. Hurray!

I have such hubris to mention positive things in energy! Maybe my drag name should be Hugh Briss.

[Meddle]

Wind power is way more expensive to produce than anything.

? ? ? ?

Wind is free.

Yeah, there's some capital expense in building the farms, but that's true for any new construction.

[SWMAP]

And creating the transmission. And it seems that wind isn't always blowing, so it's an expensive commodity to rely on. Anyway, the hydro ratepayers are paying to create the industry. Once upon a time the people who had electricity run to their neighborhoods & homes made similar investments, I imagine. But, all in all, the Ontario ratepayers don't expect to ever see lower electric rates.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

? ? ? ?

Wind is free.

Yeah, there's some capital expense in building the farms, but that's true for any new construction.

While the wind itself does not charge to blow, as I noted above wind power requires a large and continuously operating redundant power system, which is quite expensive. If you didn't have that, you'd only have power when the wind was blowing substantially.

[Bigb23]

Oh how wrong you are. DTE is REGULATED by the MI Public Service Comission. They are not "self enforced". Once you understand that you might want to go to their site and find that residential/commercial consumers could be eligible for credits, i.e. money, for either extended or repeated service outages.

With regards to "Green Energy", MI like most electric utilities is taking steps to meet a mandate of having 10% of their generation capacity be "Green" by 2015. The quotes below are from the PSC site. Of the four "Green" generating sources mentioned only hydro and biomass are anything close to reliable enough to be included into ANY electric utility's firm generation capacity planning. Wind/solar are great IF you have wind or sunshine but when you don't a utility must have backup firm generation available to meet that demand.

"Detroit Edison has contracted for 252 MW of renewable energy: 44 MW already in commercial operation and 208 MW more in commercial operation by the end of 2011 .

Detroit Edison and Consumers Energy have contracted for a combined total of 648 MW of renewable energy: 598 MW of wind energy, 45 MW of biomass energy, 4 MW of solar PV energy, and 1 MW of hydroelectric energy."

How right you are, excuse me for questioning the purpose of the local monopoly. They can do no wrong. I'm sorry for questioning that. I'll never do that again, while I use my kerosene lamp.

[Meddle]

as I noted above wind power requires a large and continuously operating redundant power system, which is quite expensive.

Which already exists and has for many decades. Other than the capital costs of the turbines and installation, wind power is free and 100% renewable and non-polluting.

Wind power is not more expensive than other conventional sources.

[mikefmich]

Protest shutoffs. Gimme a break. Pay the fooken bill. Problem solved.

[mikefmich]

Only other than the capital costs? Do you know how much those systems cost? Hope you plan on staying put for a few decades.....and the wind keeps blowin' for ya.

[Trumpeteer]

How right you are, excuse me for questioning the purpose of the local monopoly. They can do no wrong. I'm sorry for questioning that. I'll never do that again, while I use my kerosene lamp.

You missed the point AGAIN the point was that DTE is regulated and YOU have some recourse for unecessary outages.