Snyder to propose high-speed bus network to knit Detroit, suburban systems

[begingri]

BY MATT HELMS

DETROIT FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER


Gov. Rick Snyder will propose building a network of high-speed buses along major roads between Detroit and its suburbs to pave the way for a regional transit system, officials in his administration said this afternoon.

Snyder, in a speech that will lay out his transportation agenda Wednesday afternoon at Lawrence Technological University in Southfield, will propose creating rapid-transit bus lines along Woodward and Gratiot avenues from downtown to suburbs, between downtown and Ann Arbor with a stop at Detroit Metro Airport, as well as along M-59 in Macomb and Oakland counties.

The high-speed bus lines would be operated by a new governing board made up of representatives of Wayne, Oakland, Macomb and Washtenaw counties independently of existing transit providers, the Detroit Department of Transportation and SMART, the suburban bus system.

Snyder administration officials said the governor views the plan as way to jump-start a regional transit system in metro Detroit, a long-sought goal that has defied dozens of similar attempts since the 1960s. The rapid-transit system would be operated and funded independently – through a fee on vehicle registrations or similar method voters would be asked to approve – and would provide a road map for the city and suburban bus systems to ultimately work better together if not merge outright.

Continued at: http://www.freep.com/article/20111025/NEWS05/111025053/Snyder-propose-high-speed-bus-network-knit-Detroit-suburban-systems?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

[DetroitPlanner]

I wonder how we're going to afford this, DDOT, SMART, the People Mover, AATA, and the Woodward/Detroit Ann Arbor trains without a tax increase?

[Magnatomicflux]

Who the hell wants to be on a speeding bus?!?!?!

[Richard]

Who the hell wants to be on a speeding bus?!?!?!

Sandra Bullock?

[Jimaz]

Sandra Bullock?

LOL! Speed

[canuck]

I wonder how we're going to afford this, DDOT, SMART, the People Mover, AATA, and the Woodward/Detroit Ann Arbor trains without a tax increase?

Quoted from the last line of the article mentioned;

Metro Detroit is the only big-city region in the United States without a regional tax for transit operations. Other areas fund buses and rail through options such as regional taxes on sales and property.

[animatedmartian]

Is this the type of plan he's proposing? This is from a PDF file from SEMCOG that was made in 2004.

Attachment 10990
[[PDF file)

I don't see how Synder's plan is new...

I found some other "regional plans" with an already dedicated Regional Council.

http://www.semcog.org/RTCC.aspx

Same maps and information, just updated.

I found that information after going through some Detroit Works pages.

http://detroitworksproject.com/polic...ustainability/

So I'm confused. What is the purpose of SEMCOG if it's not a regional authority? What is all this information for? Are these plans actually being implemented or are these dead plans? Would Snyder's proposal replace all of this? If these are recommendations, what would make Snyder's proposal any different? What the hell, man?

[Gistok]

Unless something is implemented... a plan is just a plan...

Anyone can come with a plan... it requires some level of skill to implement it!

[corktownyuppie]

Unless something is implemented... a plan is just a plan...

Anyone can come with a plan... it requires some level of skill to implement it!

Yeah, the political skill you need to create change right now is at a pretty high bar in this climate. It's like you're on the tv show Survivor and you're asking everyone to go against their individual interests in exchange for a greater good they may never see.

Good times.

[DetroitPlanner]

[QUOTE=canuck;280223]Quoted from the last line of the article mentioned;

Metro Detroit is the only big-city region in the United States without a regional tax for transit operations. Other areas fund buses and rail through options such as regional taxes on sales and property.[/QUOTE

He will need to get the region to vote themselves a tax increase to pay for this. Here is the Obama Plan for High Speed Buses. http://www.theonion.com/video/obama-...ith-hig,18473/.... I got it off the internet so it must be true!

[Novine]

I expect this to suffer the same fate as DRIC. There's going to be little support among Republicans to create another layer of government funded by a new tax.

[canuck]

[QUOTE=DetroitPlanner;280245]

Quoted from the last line of the article mentioned;

Metro Detroit is the only big-city region in the United States without a regional tax for transit operations. Other areas fund buses and rail through options such as regional taxes on sales and property.[/QUOTE

He will need to get the region to vote themselves a tax increase to pay for this. Here is the Obama Plan for High Speed Buses. http://www.theonion.com/video/obama-...ith-hig,18473/.... I got it off the internet so it must be true!

That's the way to go DetroitPlanner, Detroit High Speed Bussed or bust.

[Richard]

I expect this to suffer the same fate as DRIC. There's going to be little support among Republicans to create another layer of government funded by a new tax.

So first he kills Brownfield and all incentives for Detroit then tries playing nice guy by throwing the city a bus paid for by a tax on top of out of reach already taxes to provide for services that are not delivered ,I am just kinda weird but I would think by cleaning up city Gov ,passing a new charter and concentrate on cleaning up the neighborhoods maybe even create an efficient existing bus system for starters.

So many studies spending millions to study the impact of placing a heater supply store in the middle of the desert. Looks good on paper.

[Dag]

To me, this looks like a situation where he knows that enough barriers exist in the current climate that none of the players are remotely capable of developing, managing, and creating the necessary connections for a project like this being successful. It almost feels like like he would like this new authority to usurp existing authority from the current systems.

Granted, I don't think there is a remote chance of this being successful, but it is interesting to see what will come of this. Likely nothing.

[Dexlin]

I wonder how we're going to afford this, DDOT, SMART, the People Mover, AATA, and the Woodward/Detroit Ann Arbor trains without a tax increase?

Did you even try to read the article, the part of which that answers your question is actually posted in the excerpt, here?

The rapid-transit system would be operated and funded independently – through a fee on vehicle registrations or similar method voters would be asked to approve

That said, I also have questions about how this relates to the RTCC plan? Does it do away with it, or is it part of it?

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

What is the purpose of SEMCOG if it's not a regional authority?

As for purpose, you'd have to ask them. But SEMCOG is a just a private advisory group that SE Michigan localities send representatives to. It is not a government and has no authority to create any public policy or program. It is designed, I think, to study and propose things, which it hopes the local governments will enact. It is nothing like a Port Authority in New York or any number of regional transit agencies. I don't even know how many local governments have representation at SEMCOG.

[urbanhat]

I'm kind of confused about whether Snyder believes this would actually be successful. Of course the idea of higher-speed bus is real [[not just an onion piece)--and often successful: there's great bus rapid transit [[BRT) all over Latin America and the rest of the world, and not-bad systems in LA and NJ. Is this the kind of system Snyder is proposing?

Regardless, the proposal for a regional authority is a very important piece. Simply put, we will never get decent regional transit unless we have an authority with the power to collect revenue. So is the governor serious in the proposal, or is it purposefully badly designed? I can't tell from the freep article. Does anyone know?

[R8RBOB]

[QUOTE=DetroitPlanner;280245]

Quoted from the last line of the article mentioned;

Metro Detroit is the only big-city region in the United States without a regional tax for transit operations. Other areas fund buses and rail through options such as regional taxes on sales and property.[/QUOTE

He will need to get the region to vote themselves a tax increase to pay for this. Here is the Obama Plan for High Speed Buses. http://www.theonion.com/video/obama-...ith-hig,18473/.... I got it off the internet so it must be true!

I remember the Onion's story on Obama's high-speed bus plan. Who would have thought a satirical story would become real? Look like Rick Snyder is a fan.

[Dexlin]

Regardless, the proposal for a regional authority is a very important piece. Simply put, we will never get decent regional transit unless we have an authority with the power to collect revenue. So is the governor serious in the proposal, or is it purposefully badly designed? I can't tell from the freep article. Does anyone know?

Well, we'll have to see in a few hours when he makes his speech. Remember, this is the media just getting and outline of what he's going to talk about. BTW, whether you like Snyder or not [[and I didn't vote for him), he was the only gubernatorial candidate during the campaign, Republican or Democrat, that specifically talked about improved mass and rapid transit, particularly in Detroit, and how it relates to economicanlly healthier urban areas.

So, whatever he ends up saying, I don't think he's setting up his own proposal to fail. I think he's reading the news like the rest of and seeing near daily headlines about the downward spirals of DDOT and SMART, and as someone who wants to see better transit, has come up with an idea. I think he notices that there has to be some kind of honest broker from outside the region to facilitate regional talks because the metropolitan communities still don't trust each other.

[R8RBOB]

Well, we'll have to see in a few hours when he makes his speech. Remember, this is the media just getting and outline of what he's going to talk about. BTW, whether you like Snyder or not [[and I didn't vote for him), he was the only gubernatorial candidate during the campaign, Republican or Democrat, that specifically talked about improved mass and rapid transit, particularly in Detroit, and how it relates to economicanlly healthier urban areas.

So, whatever he ends up saying, I don't think he's setting up his own proposal to fail. I think he's reading the news like the rest of and seeing near daily headlines about the downward spirals of DDOT and SMART, and as someone who wants to see better transit, has come up with an idea. I think he notices that there has to be some kind of honest broker from outside the region to facilitate regional talks because the metropolitan communities still don't trust each other.

I have no problem with Snyder going bold with transit but the idea of high-speed buses is a joke which is why it joked about by the Onion. What Metro Detroit needs is a light-rail system with a newly created regional bus system from the ruins of DDOT/SMART to supplement the rail.

[Dexlin]

I mostly agree, though, Regional Transit Coordinating Councils [[RTCC)'s own study intially only calls for Woodward to have LRT, so it's not like he's proposing something so much less than currently exist in the official regional transit plans for the region. All other major spoke routes in the plan are already planned only to have BRT, and the east-to-west routes are only planned to be improved for existing regular bus service.

But, yeah, I agree. For a metropolitan this large and spread out, once you get past a certain distance, bus routes don't make sense, whether it be regular, old bus or BRT. Realistically, you probably need to have LRT down at least the major spokes within the city. And, in all honesty, when you start getting out past the airport [[i.e into Ann Arbor's area) or up to Pontiac/Auburn Hills, you really actually need commuter rail.

[DetroitPlanner]

Did you even try to read the article, the part of which that answers your question is actually posted in the excerpt, here?

That said, I also have questions about how this relates to the RTCC plan? Does it do away with it, or is it part of it?

Its going to take a lot more than a up to $40 per vehicle tax to pay for all of this. Light rail on Woodward is going to cost Billions to build and tens of millions a year in taxes to operate. In today's climate where DDOT can;t even get its busses fixes, SMART is cutting service by almost 25%, and the People Mover is closing down, anything that will compete for those scarce dollars needs to be carefully examined.

[Scottathew]

But, yeah, I agree. For a metropolitan this large and spread out, once you get past a certain distance, bus routes don't make sense, whether it be regular, old bus or BRT. Realistically, you probably need to have LRT down at least the major spokes within the city.

Yeah, but we need LRT that doesn't share the road.

[One Shot]

Don't we already have them?

[cramerro]

As for purpose, you'd have to ask them. But SEMCOG is a just a private advisory group that SE Michigan localities send representatives to. It is not a government and has no authority to create any public policy or program. It is designed, I think, to study and propose things, which it hopes the local governments will enact. It is nothing like a Port Authority in New York or any number of regional transit agencies. I don't even know how many local governments have representation at SEMCOG.

This is flatly incorrect. SEMCOG is not a private entity, nor is it an advisory "group." It is true that SEMCOG isn't a transit agency, but they do have authority to create policies and programs. They are also the official Metropolitan Planning Organization for the 7-county region, regardless of whether local communities within those counties elect to be official paying members of the council.

As the MPO, SEMCOG ultimately is the decision maker on how millions in highway funds get spent each year across the region, through the Transportation Improvement Plan [[TIP) and Long Range Plan [[LRP) process. With few exceptions, nobody can spend a dollar of Federal transportation funds [[including MDOT) on a project unless it is included in the financially-constrained TIP. This includes the transit agencies and thier funding.

They are responsible for maintaining accurate travel demand modeling, socio-econiomic statistics [[not just for officials of local communities to use in tv interviews), and managing the area's status as a attainment/non-attainment area for the EPA emissions and air quality standards. They also control the distribution of Federal Congestion Management Air Quality [[CMAQ) funding for the region, more millions to road, transit, and other transportation agencies. They are also the lead agency on the [[slowly) progressing Ann Arbor-Detroit commuter rail project [[latest updates).

No, I don't work at SEMCOG, but I have frequent interaction with them and know all of the things that they are in charge of. They are not the transit agency that many other regions have in thier council of governments, but then again we don't have a regional transit agency at all. The serve the needs of the communities in the region, which have historically been very focused on suburban growth and road projects.

Room for improvement, yes. Some 'good old boys' club sitting in a smoky room shooting the breeze and 'advising' communities to do stuff, no.