First SS raise in three years

**Ray1936** · October-18-11, 08:30 PM

After two years of having no cost-of-living increases to Social Security beneficiaries, January will bring a 3.8% raise to recepients. I don't think there are too many DetroitYessers receiving SS, but for the few like me who are, Hoo-Rah!

**oladub** · October-19-11, 12:05 AM

"The Producer Price Index, which measures price changes before they reach the consumer, rose 0.8 percent in September." That works out to an annual inflation rate of 9.6%. If inflation was measured as it was until 1990, inflation would be several percent higher but the shadowstats graph measures the consumer price index instead of the producer price index.

**coracle** · October-19-11, 06:09 AM

I'm not sure what the real inflation rate is because the the administration don't want us to know - which means it's BAD. Gas was $1.83 two and a half years ago and now it's more or less established at $3.40 +; and food has rocketed. Our dollars feel worth a lot less today than when Obama was elected. Health costs have exploded - thank you to the impending Obamacare which is to help the few [[ineffectively) at the expense of punishing everybody with yet higher health costs, "managed" services and more job losses. When socialists take over everybody look out even those they "help" with other people's money. Greece, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Italy et al here we come.

**Meddle** · October-19-11, 06:59 AM

^^^ Blah, blah, right-wing, all hail Bush, Cheney, Romney, Palin, blah, blah, blah......

Without the useless politicizing, it's corporate greed and mega-salary packages that makes prices go up. Reign that in and we'll all be better off.

The SS raise is actually bad news since it means that everybody is paying more for everything. COLA was going up nearly every year for decades until just recently. I'm not sure if prices actually leveled out for a while or if it was just a matter of massaging and hiding the real numbers.

**Whitehouse** · October-19-11, 08:38 AM

[[At the risk of this thead ending up in a flame war..... here we go.)

Originally Posted by coracle

I'm not sure what the real inflation rate is because the the administration don't want us to know - which means it's BAD. Gas was $1.83 two and a half years ago and now it's more or less established at $3.40 +; and food has rocketed. Our dollars feel worth a lot less today than when Obama was elected. Health costs have exploded - thank you to the impending Obamacare which is to help the few [[ineffectively) at the expense of punishing everybody with yet higher health costs, "managed" services and more job losses. When socialists take over everybody look out even those they "help" with other people's money. Greece, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Italy et al here we come.

A confused Dutchman says "What??!"

- Gasprices skyrocketed.
You blame that on Obama?? That's world politics, mister. Outsourcing jobs to the BRIC countries during the past 10 years does that to you. Development in the 3rd world boomed and so did the oil demand.
- Healthcare costs exploded.
That's a result of commercial healthcare. If you didn't walk to the tune of the pied pipers of the GOP, you could have had universal and affordable heathcare. Keep obstructing any initiative and nothing gets done. And you can keep complaining that Obamacare is funded with other people's money, but wait until you end up on the recieving stick with a heavy cancer treatment. Got a good job? Get fired? Ending up bankrupt? Your fault. You should have embraced universal healthcare.

I bet you don't have any problems with police, the fire brigade and a massive black hole that is the defence industry funded with "other people's money".

**Big Dog** · October-19-11, 09:27 AM

That sums it up, pretty well. IMO

**Lowell** · October-19-11, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by Whitehouse

A confused Dutchman says "What??!"

- Gasprices skyrocketed.
You blame that on Obama?? That's world politics, mister. Outsourcing jobs to the BRIC countries during the past 10 years does that to you. Development in the 3rd world boomed and so did the oil demand.
- Healthcare costs exploded.
That's a result of commercial healthcare. If you didn't walk to the tune of the pied pipers of the GOP, you could have had universal and affordable heathcare. Keep obstructing any initiative and nothing gets done. And you can keep complaining that Obamacare is funded with other people's money, but wait until you end up on the receiving stick with a heavy cancer treatment. Got a good job? Get fired? Ending up bankrupt? Your fault. You should have embraced universal healthcare.

I bet you don't have any problems with police, the fire brigade and a massive black hole that is the defence industry funded with "other people's money".

I think you are one very clear-headed Dutchman.

**oladub** · October-19-11, 11:23 AM

Whitehouse, Gasoline has gone down in price. From memory, gasoline cost about three dimes per gallon in the late 60s. Since 1964 and earlier coins contained a measure of silver as required by the Constitution, three of those pre-65 dimes are now worth about $6.80 as scrap metal; enough to buy about 2.85 gallons in today's dollars. Federal Reserve debt notes with nothing tangible behind them to replace silver certificates have made it possible for our government to pay for it's spend, spend, spend policies with a hidden inflation tax.

You might have added that President Obama will soon be signing free trade treaties with three more countries to facilitate the flow of more jobs out of the US. Also, US troops should be pulled out of Europe so Americans could better afford health care. If you want to defend yourselves in Europe, that is your choice. It will cost you a lot of money but it's your ass and culture if you think it's worth saving. You can bomb Libya or Serbians or defend oil supplies on your own dime. It will get expensive paying for all the social amenities you mention while paying for your own defense. Good luck. It does irk me though to hear Europeans claiming the moral high ground while hiding under the defense skirt of the US at the expense of our young people's lives and our tax dollars.

You don't make the distinction between the competition found in capitalism and the cronyism found in corporatism. Our US heath care system, including Obamacare, is an example of corporatism with government agencies running errands for the profitability of insurance companies, large pharmaceuticals, and law firms.

"Police and fire brigades" are examples of state spending allowed under the Tenth Amendment unlike Obamacare. States could also have universal and affordable health care under the Constitution as do Canadian provinces, as Vermont is trying to do, except that the Obama administration makes that impossible.

lit joe · October-19-11, 06:31 PM

Under Bush you got raises every year. Under Obama G.M Wall Street Banks got your money. Not to say anything about GREEN B>S.

**coracle** · October-20-11, 07:16 AM

SS recipients did get a raise in the first year of Obama's regime but that was Bush's fault. Since then for two years, they've had no increases, which in Democrat accounting terms means two reductions. This time he had to do it if he wants any hope of retaining even the diehard Seniors and he'll have to announce another increase just before next year's election . But these are not bribes because Bush did it when he wasn't up for re-election.There is a plus side however; he can push his way onto TV about 50 times and shout while finger pointing to get the message over, and also tell us who's fault it was why it didn't happen two years ago. They were probably too busy at the time spending the Stimulus money to provide all the jobs.

**Mikeg** · October-20-11, 08:19 AM

Ray, don't let your "better half" spend that monthly increase just yet - Medicare premiums are going to rise and eat up about 25% of your increase!

lit joe · October-20-11, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by Mikeg

Ray, don't let your "better half" spend that monthly increase just yet - Medicare premiums are going to rise and eat up about 25% of your increase!

Not only that 2013 its go's to 247.00 per month. You know obamacareless.

**Mikeg** · October-20-11, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by lit joe

Not only that 2013 its go's to 247.00 per month. You know obamacareless.

Here is President Obama on July 22, 2009 discussing the need to "bend the curve" of increasing health care costs via proposed health care reform legislation:

"So what I've said is I will not sign a bill that is not deficit-neutral...... If we don’t do anything on health care inflation, then we might as well close up shop when it comes to dealing with our long-term debt and deficit problems, because that’s the driver of it — Medicare and Medicaid....... Health care reform is fiscal reform....."

Since then, he got his "health care reform" [[aka "ObamaCare") passed into law, yet just this week, his administration abandoned CLASS, which was the key deficit-reduction component of that legislation.

So where is all that promised fiscal reform and bending of the health care cost curve going to come from?

**Ray1936** · October-20-11, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by Mikeg

Ray, don't let your "better half" spend that monthly increase just yet - Medicare premiums are going to rise and eat up about 25% of your increase!

Yeah, I know, but allow me a moment of euphoria before reality sets in.

**jiminnm** · October-20-11, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by Ray1936

Yeah, I know, but allow me a moment of euphoria before reality sets in.

Well Ray, I'll enjoy my first COLA for 6 months before the Medicare deductions kick in.

**firstandten** · October-20-11, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Mikeg

Since then, he got his "health care reform" [[aka "ObamaCare") passed into law, yet just this week, his administration abandoned CLASS, which was the key deficit-reduction component of that legislation.

So where is all that promised fiscal reform and bending of the health care cost curve going to come from?

Some context is needed here.
Community Living Assistance Services and Supports or Class Act
is a voluntary insurance program that would cover home health care options for adults who become disable. This act was one that Sen. Kennedy fought for.

the white house wasn't in love with this part of the health care package but went along mostly because of Sen Kennedy.

Problem is the savings were front loaded while the costs were back loaded. When the Repubs insisted on a actuarially sound premium in the bill , which got in , that gave the WH the opening to drop that part of the bill.

That was only one part of the health care bill that Repubs want to take apart piece by piece it just so happens they found some low lying fruit they could go after.

Whether that part of the bill was a key part of the cost savings I think not. The bill still scores out positive by the CBO.

**Mikeg** · October-20-11, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by firstandten

Some context is needed here......Whether that part of the bill was a key part of the cost savings I think not. The bill still scores out positive by the CBO.

Obviously, some more context is needed here....
According to the article I linked, CLASS alone provided 40% of ObamaCare's original total estimated deficit reduction. I think any reasonable person would agree that if a single section of the health care reform law provides 40% of its total deficit reduction, it can legitimately be called the "key" deficit-reduction component of that legislation.

**Whitehouse** · October-20-11, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by oladub

Whitehouse, Gasoline has gone down in price. From memory, gasoline cost about three dimes per gallon in the late 60s. Since 1964 and earlier coins contained a measure of silver as required by the Constitution, three of those pre-65 dimes are now worth about $6.80 as scrap metal; enough to buy about 2.85 gallons in today's dollars. Federal Reserve debt notes with nothing tangible behind them to replace silver certificates have made it possible for our government to pay for it's spend, spend, spend policies with a hidden inflation tax.

You still pay much more for your gasoline now than ten years ago. Plus, you should have kept holding on to your dimes. If you had the benefit of seeing into the future you could have figured that one out....

You might have added that President Obama will soon be signing free trade treaties with three more countries to facilitate the flow of more jobs out of the US. Also, US troops should be pulled out of Europe so Americans could better afford health care. If you want to defend yourselves in Europe, that is your choice. It will cost you a lot of money but it's your ass and culture if you think it's worth saving. You can bomb Libya or Serbians or defend oil supplies on your own dime. It will get expensive paying for all the social amenities you mention while paying for your own defense. Good luck. It does irk me though to hear Europeans claiming the moral high ground while hiding under the defense skirt of the US at the expense of our young people's lives and our tax dollars.

Seems to be the doctrine. Liberating countries and then establishing bases overseas. Don't get me wrong, you guys were very welcome back in WWII. But now the US government still wants to apply this policy and don't kid me, there will always be American soldiers in Iraq. In truth, US soldiers could leave Europe. There's no threat from the east anymore, and large quantities of American GIs have already left this part of the world. [[In the Netherlands the American 32nd Tactical Fighter Squadron was based at Soesterberg Airbase between 1954 and 1994).

"Police and fire brigades" are examples of state spending allowed under the Tenth Amendment unlike Obamacare. States could also have universal and affordable health care under the Constitution as do Canadian provinces, as Vermont is trying to do, except that the Obama administration makes that impossible.

And who funds those branches? Indeed, taxpayers, so: "other people's money."

[[With my Dutch view) I cannot figure out why it would be wrong to have a mandatory health insurance. I see no difference from insuring you car. Driving an uninsured car is a crime. Life would be so much better not having to worry about recieving healthcare when you need it the most. It always comes unexpected. An accident can happen, a disease can rear it's ugly head. Having insurance is a relief of a burden of having to worry about the bill.

In the Netherlands it's illegal for insurance companies to cancel an insurance policy, unless fraud is discovered or default of payment. A medical condition, no matter how severe, is not a reason to cancel a policy.

More information.

Explanation of Social security in The Netherlands.

**oladub** · October-20-11, 01:27 PM

Whitehouse; You still pay much more for your gasoline now than ten years ago. Plus, you should have kept holding on to your dimes. If you had the benefit of seeing into the future you could have figured that one out....

Whitehouse, You may be missing my point. To the extent that this thread is about inflation as reflected in SS payments, the value of US currency used to be based on gold and silver as required by the Constitution. Had we continued that currency system, gas would be cheaper relative to the value of commodity based money. Instead, money based on silver was replaced with fiat currency subject to the whims of bankers and politicians to get us to where we are today. At the other end, the federal government changed it's system of measuring inflation in such a way as to claim there has been no inflation for two years.

[[With my Dutch view) I cannot figure out why it would be wrong to have a mandatory health insurance. I see no difference from insuring you car. Driving an uninsured car is a crime. Life would be so much better not having to worry about recieving healthcare when you need it the most. It always comes unexpected. An accident can happen, a disease can rear it's ugly head. Having insurance is a relief of a burden of having to worry about the bill.

I wasn't claiming it was wrong but rather it is the function of states rather than the federal government. Also, I was trying to make the point that any health care system must try to eliminate parasites, unnecessary paperwork, and costs. Those are problems with our present health care system which have not been remedied by Obamacare.

**Mikeg** · October-20-11, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by Whitehouse

US soldiers could leave Europe. There's no threat from the east anymore,

Forbes, 19 Oct 2011: "Kinder, Gentler 'Cold War' As Russia & US Lock Horns Over Missile Defense"

It’s not a return to the Cold War, but its psychologically remnants remain as Moscow tries forcing Washington to a binding legal agreement that its NATO missile shield will never ever be aimed across the Ural Mountains which separates Russia from Western Europe.

Talks between Russia and the U.S. on the matter have become completely deadlocked, Ria Novosti reported on Wednesday.....

MSNBC, 10 June 2011: "'Dim, if not dismal future': Gates blasts NATO"

Secretary Robert Gates warned Friday that the future of the NATO military alliance is at risk because of European penny-pinching and distaste for front-line combat. The United States won't carry the alliance as a charity case, the outgoing Pentagon chief said......

Over the past two years, military spending by NATO's European members has shrunk by about $45 billion — the equivalent of the entire annual defense budget of Germany, one of the alliance's top-spending members.

As a result, the U.S. defense budget of nearly $700 billion accounts for nearly 75 percent of the total defense spending by NATO members. The combined military spending of all 26 European members is just above $220 billion.

Originally Posted by Whitehouse

and large quantities of American GIs have already left this part of the world.

Except for the 8,300 US servicemen permanently stationed near Margraten, NL.

Originally Posted by Whitehouse

In the Netherlands....

Your budget is a mess and the Netherlands is currently borrowing 4 of every 10 euros they spend, just like the USA. How long is that sustainable and how many new social programs is your government starting up in the meantime? The Netherlands cut their defense budget by 10% last year and you expect the USA to borrow even more money to protect your ass from Putin and keep the Russian heating gas flowing to Western Europe [[not to mention the petroleum flowing to Europe from Libya under the new regime)?

**old guy** · October-20-11, 02:53 PM

People are actually upset about the elderly receiving a 3.8% cost of living increase in Social Security after three years? WTF? We might want to refrain from using the word society when describing what we are in this country. This is getting embarrassing.
People taking to the streets? What a shocker.

**Mikeg** · October-20-11, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by old guy

People are actually upset about the elderly receiving a 3.8% cost of living increase in Social Security after three years? WTF? We might want to refrain from using the word society when describing what we are in this country. This is getting embarrassing.
People taking to the streets? What a shocker.

Who's upset? Where are they "taking to the streets"? I've seen nothing along those lines on the Internet today.

**Mikeg** · October-20-11, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by Whitehouse

Seems to be the doctrine. Liberating countries and then establishing bases overseas. Don't get me wrong, you guys were very welcome back in WWII........

The British and US Armies liberated the Netherlands in 1945 so that you could regain your sovereignty and what have you done with it? You've let yourselves become serfs to an unelected set of elites in Brussels who, along with a complicit Dutch parliament, abolished your guilder and replaced it with a euro that is predicated on a European monetary union that cannot be sustained over the turbulent long-term without the political union that needs to accompany it.

So, instead of lecturing us in the USA about how we need to fashion our policies to be more like the Netherlands, tell me - how's that common European currency thing working out for you? Are you willing to see your country go deeper in debt in order to bail out those spendthrifts in Greece and Portugal? Do you believe that the Netherlands can do that without lowering their own citizen's standard of living? In the end, will you and your fellow citizens even have a say in the matter of bailing them out?

Listening to you, I have to conclude that the Dutch don't care or worry about things like that just as long as their social security checks keep coming and their health care costs get paid.

**coracle** · October-20-11, 04:56 PM

438

Originally Posted by old guy

People are actually upset about the elderly receiving a 3.8% cost of living increase in Social Security after three years? WTF? We might want to refrain from using the word society when describing what we are in this country. This is getting embarrassing.
People taking to the streets? What a shocker.

Maybe they should reflect on the fact that eventually they will all become old and need SS and if there are very few or no yearly increases until their time to claim it it really will be a mere pittance. For a majority of people it's a life saving necessity. If the average SS payment is $1000 per month [[I don't know what the figure is) then an increase of $38 less about $10 for Medicare won't buy a whole lot of groceries.

**firstandten** · October-20-11, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by Mikeg

Obviously, some more context is needed here....
According to the article I linked, CLASS alone provided 40% of ObamaCare's original total estimated deficit reduction. I think any reasonable person would agree that if a single section of the health care reform law provides 40% of its total deficit reduction, it can legitimately be called the "key" deficit-reduction component of that legislation.

From the article you reference
"By scrapping the CLASS Act, HHS is losing about 40 percent of the savings healthcare reform was supposed to generate. The Congressional Budget Office’s most recent estimates projected $210 billion in total deficit reduction from the healthcare law, $86 billion of which would have come from CLASS.
HHS officials emphasized Friday that the healthcare reform law is still projected to cut the deficit, since about $125 billion of the most recent savings estimates are still intact."

Repubs sure aren't bringing any cost savings on this issue.