Desire: To acquire a commercial building in downtown

**Artistic** · October-13-11, 07:40 AM

Does anyone know a commercial real estate agent to discuss whats available in downtown? I've been in contact with residential agents but it is not their primary background in dealing with commercial buildings.

**Supersport** · October-13-11, 07:53 AM

You sound like a speculator to me. Had you ventured downtown, you would have realized practically every available commercial building has a for sale sign, with contact info. That would be the most obvious place to start.

**Artistic** · October-13-11, 09:12 AM

Simply looking for a one on one contact. As far as having ever ventured downtown, I'm from Detroit, as far as seeing the signs and making calls to the numbers that are shown - no one and I mean no one has ever called back. Residential realtors also show no interest in offering information, that may be due to the fact that you need to have a commercial license to sell commercial real estate. One last question, why the assumption that I'm a speculator for just asking one question.

**Islandman** · October-13-11, 10:36 AM

I have also found that a lot of realtors will simply not call you back re: commercial spaces. Even emails fall into black holes. I have contacted some regarding a few buildings only to find out they are under contract. I then ask if they any other buildings that are similar; crickets.

And let's not get started on the inflated amounts some people want for their buildings.

Perfect example: http://oconnordetroit.com/properties...238_mich/1.htm
The CPA Building - 1.4 million

**old guy** · October-13-11, 10:48 AM

Why is that? I'd think realtors would be coming out of the woodwork in a market with so much vacant commercial space like Detroit.

**Islandman** · October-13-11, 10:51 AM

I keep asking myself that question. It's more than a pattern at this point, it's pervasive. Granted, I'm not saying they are all like that; maybe I'm just lucky.

**corktownyuppie** · October-13-11, 11:01 AM

It may make sense to contact a commercial agency like CB Richard Ellis and consider signing an exclusive buyer's agent agreement. Commercial agents generally work better with other agents, rather than people calling/e-mailing out of the blue. Most of the calls they get from an unrepresented buyer are huge wastes of time from buyers who are unqualified to purchase or unqualified to do the due diligence necessary.

Not saying that you are one of them...but commercial development and commercial financing are a lengthy, complex process, usually requiring multiple factions to come to an accord. And that's before you add in the labyrinth of dealing with historical properties which may require thousands/millions of engineering costs to make them sound. Then add zoning and permitting issues, holy jeez.

You'll get a whole lot more love working with a nationally recognized commercial broker, and usually you won't have to pay any costs to do it.

**kraig** · October-13-11, 11:04 AM

I second what Artistic and Islandman are saying. Trying to get info on Commercial Real Estate in the D can be a son of a bitch. A lot of times, the property's status is in limbo, tax trouble and not listed. What I've done in the past is pull the name of the last known listed taxpayer from the Wayne County Treasurer's site and tracked them down. This also helps with finding out what the taxes owed are. But always get a physical copy of the deed from the register of deeds so that you'll know that you're dealing with either the owner or an authorized representative before you start investing more time and money into the endeavor.

**Islandman** · October-13-11, 11:05 AM

Definitely agree with you there [[both Corktown and Kraig).

I am mostly looking at a 2-3 story storefront/loft space, nothing crazy. One realtor showed me one on West Baltimore that looked great from the outsite, price was right, but the building was literally a frame, and apprently had its own built-in pool in the basement. Apparently the roof was not repaired for a few years. What looked like a great buy was defintely not the case.

**1953** · October-13-11, 11:08 AM

There is a great 3 story brick building available on Brush between Gratiot and Madison. I want it myself, but I am not in a position to buy another structure.

**Islandman** · October-13-11, 11:16 AM

That is a great building. Out of my range though. 900K. I can't afford to be right downtown, but this is definitely the type of building that catches my fancy.

**davewindsor** · October-13-11, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by Artistic

Simply looking for a one on one contact. As far as having ever ventured downtown, I'm from Detroit, as far as seeing the signs and making calls to the numbers that are shown - no one and I mean no one has ever called back. Residential realtors also show no interest in offering information, that may be due to the fact that you need to have a commercial license to sell commercial real estate. One last question, why the assumption that I'm a speculator for just asking one question.

I don't buy it. Are you wasting their time by telling them you're looking for fire sale prices with huge returns on your investment? Everyone knows the Farbman Group is the big commercial brokerage for downtown because they're almost always in the news when an office building is bought or sold. Are you telling me that they aren't returning calls? Here's their website from google--it took me one minute to find and says it's a full service brokerage http://www.farbman.com/

Here's some of what they have available and there's a whole slew of different listing agents you can call from the different listings if they know anything else that meets your parameters if one doesn't call you back [[though I doubt that's happening in this market).. http://www.farbman.com/Properties/2007/OFFICE.pdf

**Islandman** · October-13-11, 11:47 AM

Signature Associates is also very big in Detroit. Also one of the places that after initial contact asking a very specific question did not return emails.

You also have to consider that some of these realtors know that these prices are inflated and just don't want to be bothered just to find out that the bank are probably not going to give the investor a loan.

One realtor in particular came right out and said it; the owner is asking to much. I'm not saying it's a conspiracy, just the S/N ratio is high when it comes to propery without baggage [[unpaid taxes, upkeep, internal infrastructure intact, inflated price, etc.).

**Artistic** · October-13-11, 12:13 PM

I've dealt with a couple of the brokerage houses named above, and short of being tossed aside I've been given next to no information - hence the original question. Thanks to those for offering good quality information.

**corktownyuppie** · October-13-11, 01:08 PM

Artistic, are you asking the brokerage houses for information on properties they are listing? Or are you asing them to represent you as a buyer? The 2nd one will get you lots of attention. If it's not, PM me and I'll refer you to a few of their reps. But you need to convey to them that you are a legit buyer with plenty of access to capital.

**rsa.313** · October-13-11, 01:14 PM

i would second what corktownyuppie said; get a commercial real estate agent to work for you. they will be able to vet what properties are realistic and make contact with seller's agents. it's my impression that a lot of commercial sellers agent's don't respond to cold calls.

another thing to consider is that a lot of sellers don't intend to actually sell their buildings. one of the ways to avoid blight tickets is to have your property listed for sale.

**EastsideAl** · October-13-11, 02:37 PM

rsa.313 finally hits the nail on the head. Many of the buildings that are "for sale" in Detroit are not really for sale at all. They are only listed because under the law the city can't cite an owner for blight, initiate a taking to abate a nuisance, or even in many cases seize it for back property taxes if the building is for sale.

This is the main reason for the ludicrous prices and the lack of responsiveness. The agents know that the owner has no real intention to sell, and that there can be no realistic buyers at the price the owner is asking. Many of these buildings are being what I call "Higginsized" [[although he is far from the only, or even the worst, culprit). That is, held onto and left in a vacant, dilapidated, and unmaintained [[but officially "for sale") condition by an owner in the hopes that the land will at some point be in the way of development and will thus be worth a sizable amount of money to somebody that will have to pay big to buy him off [[most often some governmental body). As Higgins found out with the criminally left-to-rot Farwell Bldg., that strategy can really pay off.

**rjlj** · October-13-11, 02:52 PM

Listing a property for sale does not make it immune to blight laws or immune from being turned over for unpaid property taxes. There is no such law and these statements are completely false.

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

rsa.313 finally hits the nail on the head. Many of the buildings that are "for sale" in Detroit are not really for sale at all. They are only listed because under the law the city can't cite an owner for blight, initiate a taking to abate a nuisance, or even in many cases seize it for back property taxes if the building is for sale.

This is the main reason for the ludicrous prices and the lack of responsiveness. The agents know that the owner has no real intention to sell, and that there can be no realistic buyers at the price the owner is asking. Many of these buildings are being what I call "Higginsized" [[although he is far from the only, or even the worst, culprit). That is, held onto and left in a vacant, dilapidated, and unmaintained [[but officially "for sale") condition by an owner in the hopes that the land will at some point be in the way of development and will thus be worth a sizable amount of money to somebody that will have to pay big to buy him off [[most often some governmental body). As Higgins found out with the criminally left-to-rot Farwell Bldg., that strategy can really pay off.

**goblue** · October-13-11, 03:01 PM

pierre leblanc - 313 319 0113

**Artistic** · October-13-11, 03:20 PM

To - goblue

I've dealt with Pierre, once with a signed purchase agreement at the now dead - 1001 Woodward project. That was nightmare from the go. Secondly on a listing he currently has on Griswold - no call back or response from emails....typical Pierre. As I can say this from actual dealings with him. Thanks for offering a suggestion.

**Islandman** · October-13-11, 06:12 PM

He's the one that showed me that brick frame on West Baltimore.

**EastsideAl** · October-14-11, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by rjlj

Listing a property for sale does not make it immune to blight laws or immune from being turned over for unpaid property taxes. There is no such law and these statements are completely false.

Perhaps I should have been clearer. Although you certainly can be cited for blight while your property is up for sale, you can use it to evade paying the fines for a very long time, which is one of the main reasons why there are millions of dollars in unpaid and apparently uncollectible blight fines on buildings in Detroit. One can also often successfully hold off seizure of a building for unpaid property taxes around here for a very long time by "selling" a building amongst several related parties or companies, as well as strategic use of bankruptcies, which is one reason why there's such a backlog there too.