Fast and Furious - who will be held accountable?

[Mikeg]

Many people have died as a result of the Obama administration's "Operation Fast and Furious" gun-walking scandal, including US Border Patrol agent Brian Terry, a former Lincoln Park, MI police officer.

The US House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform has been pushing AG Eric Holder and the Justice Department for a full accounting of the deadly program, but their investigation has been met with stonewalling and spin. However, new documents have been uncovered that show Holder received memos about it as early as July 2010 – directly contradicting Holder's May 3, 2011 sworn testimony denying knowledge of Fast and Furious until just weeks earlier.

Who [[and how many) in the DoJ will ultimately be held accountable for not only the ill-conceived "Operation Fast and Furious" but also for the many deaths that resulted from it? Did anyone in the West Wing of the White House have any prior knowledge of "Fast and Furious"? Will there be enough curiosity in the media and the public to help investigators get to the bottom of this before November 2012? So many question and so far, too few answers.

RIP, Brian Terry.

[Patrick]

So, would you still post this talking point if we were living under a Republican administration? Would you still be as furious?

[Mikeg]

So, would you still post this talking point if we were living under a Republican administration? Would you still be as furious?

Do you only excuse and trivialize deaths [["talking points") that are caused by actions under a Democrat administration?

[oladub]

This looks more like a set of criminal acts than a talking point. Take your pick: lying under oath, contempt of Congress, narcotics violations [[arming narcos), accessory to their crimes including murder, treason...

Had you asked me, yes, Bush should be in prison or on his Paraguay estate for lying about Iraq but that doesn't ok the actions of the present Criminal in Chief. Looks like this crowd tried to cover their tracks and intimidate a reporter regarding Solyndra too.

What do we expect though from an administration which has conducted acts of war without the consent of Congress, decided to assassinate Americans without involving courts, and picks and chooses which laws it wants to uphold? If Congress had any resolve and integrity of it's own, Bush and Obama would have both been impeached from office.

[coracle]

The people that will be found guilty will be everybody but Obama and Holder - maybe they'll even try pinning it on Bush. On a slightly different tack, it's notable that these two welcome Mexican illegals into other people's States [[at least some of the 57) with open arms yet when two interlopers penetrated the WH event some months ago they were ejected on their arses for being there illegally.
Must have been because the were Americans.

[Patrick]

By TIM MAK | 10/4/11 4:54 PM EDT


The Bush administration also ran an operation that allowed hundreds of guns to be transferred to suspected arms traffickers - the same tactic that congressional Republicans are criticizing the Department of Justice for using, the AP reports.

Rep. Darrell Issa [[R-Calif.), chairman of the House Committee on Oversight, and other Republicans have been slamming Attorney General Eric Holder and the Department of Justice over the Fast and Furious operation, a controversial gun-running program that went wrong.




Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/65152.html#ixzz1aEBblGzy

[Gistok]

I too am curious to see what this ends up. Holder definitely has some splainin' to do...

But to somehow be presuptuous enough to claim that these people would be alive today if it weren't for these PARTICULAR weapons... is naiive at best... [[or a Fox talking point at worst...)

[Mikeg]

Ah, the all-too-familiar "Bush did it, too" defense coming from President Obama's lickspittles.

Since the Left is so anxious to compare the Bush-era "Wide Receiver" with "Fast and Furious", let's take a closer look at the two "operations".

• "Receiver" took place in Tuscon during 2006-07, "Furious" in Phoenix during 2009-10 and there is evidence of similar gun-walking "operations" taking place in 10 other cities in five states during that same time frame.
• "Receiver" let 450 guns walk into Mexico and at least they attempted to track them once they were across the border, "Furious" let 2,000 of them "walk" and never included a tracking component.
• "Receiver was shut down after the AFT was unable to effectively track the "walked" guns, "Furious" was shut down only after 2 of its "walked" guns were found at Brian Terry's murder scene.
• "Receiver" apparently involved only members of the ATF bureau, "Furious" involved inter-agency cooperation between the AFT, FBI, DEA, DHS, IRS, State Department and even the White House Security Council.
• "Receiver" was investigated and nine people are facing charges, not so with "Furious", at least so far.

In fact, the "Receiver" investigation and charges were initiated by the very same Holder Justice Dept. that apparently didn't think to also investigate whether the ATF was still continuing its "gun-walking" tactics - or lying when asked about it. Perhaps Holder's minions were too wrapped up in the "Bush's fault" mentality to question - or care - whether it could happen again on their watch. Surely, given the high level of inter-agency cooperation with "Furious", there had to be a number of folks at DoJ who "turned a blind eye" towards what was happening.

I say, name a Special Prosecutor to investigate both "Furious" and "Receiver" and get the facts out NOW! If someone has blood on their hand as a result of any of the "gun-walking" operations conducted from 2006 through 2009, they need to be brought to justice - and it's clear that Holder's Justice Dept. is not capable of doing the job.

[Patrick]

Perhaps Holder's minions were too wrapped up in the "Bush's fault" mentality
to question - or care

I didn't know Issa was one of Holder's minions until just now. So they must golf together at Bethesda CC eh?

[Mikeg]

In addition to the accountability issue, it's likely that there are also some legal issues involved, including this one [[my red highlighting added):

US CODE TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 51 > § 1112

§ 1112. Manslaughter


[[a) Manslaughter is the unlawful killing of a human being without malice. It is of two kinds: Voluntary—Upon a sudden quarrel or heat of passion.
Involuntary—In the commission of an unlawful act not amounting to a felony, or in the commission in an unlawful manner, or without due caution and circumspection, of a lawful act which might produce death.

[[b) Within the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States, Whoever is guilty of voluntary manslaughter, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 15 years, or both;
Whoever is guilty of involuntary manslaughter, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 8 years, or both.

[lit joe]

They put guns in Mexico so when a border guard gets shot, obama can say look we got to pass gun laws now. another crisis gone wrong. Sorry obama

[maxx]

By TIM MAK | 10/4/11 4:54 PM EDT


The Bush administration also ran an operation that allowed hundreds of guns to be transferred to suspected arms traffickers - the same tactic that congressional Republicans are criticizing the Department of Justice for using, the AP reports.

Rep. Darrell Issa [[R-Calif.), chairman of the House Committee on Oversight, and other Republicans have been slamming Attorney General Eric Holder and the Department of Justice over the Fast and Furious operation, a controversial gun-running program that went wrong.




Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories...#ixzz1aEBblGzy

Obama should do what the Reps. do and not continue any programs like this from the previous admin.

[Mikeg]

.....The Bush administration also ran an operation that allowed hundreds of guns to be transferred to suspected arms traffickers - the same tactic that congressional Republicans are criticizing the Department of Justice for using, the AP reports......

Even Eric Holder knows better than to try and equate the Bush administration's "Wide Receiver" operation with the Obama administration's " Fast and Furious" operation:

Attorney General Eric Holder admits under oath that the "Bush did it too" excuse is bogus.

From the video of Holder's sworn testimony to the Senate Judiciary Committee on Nov. 8, 2011: "Senator, I have not tried to equate the two–I have not tried to equate Wide Receiver with Fast and Furious. . . . Again, I’m not trying to equate the two."

[rb336]

operation fast and furious was part of operation gunrunner, started under whom? oh yeah, Bush [[in Laredo, Tx, 2005), and it merely continued with the same program.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=141364631

to see the Office of the Inspector General report, see

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/se...OIG_report.pdf

[old guy]

Maybe they should hold them to these strict standards.

Attachment 11170
"North was tried in 1988 in relation to his activities while at the National Security Council. He was indicted on sixteen felony counts, and, on May 4, 1989, he was initially convicted of three: accepting an illegal gratuity; aiding and abetting in the obstruction of a congressional inquiry; and ordering the destruction of documents via his secretary, Fawn Hall. He was sentenced, by U.S. District Judge Gerhard A. Gesell on July 5, 1989, to a three-year suspended prison term, two years' probation, $150,000 in fines, and 1,200 hours community service.
However, on July 20, 1990, with the help of the American Civil Liberties Union [[ACLU), North's convictions were vacated, after the appeals court found that witnesses in his trial might have been impermissibly affected by his immunized congressional testimony."

He now has his own radio show, TV show and has made millions from writing several books.

[rb336]

However, on July 20, 1990, with the help of the American Civil Liberties Union [[ACLU), North's convictions were vacated, after the appeals court found that witnesses in his trial might have been impermissibly affected by his immunized congressional testimony."

Those dammmm liburuls in the ACLU always backing their liburuls in court. oh. wait