Buying in Lafayette Park

**pseudo** · October-06-11, 08:56 AM

My wife and I are lifelong suburbanites that moved to the Lofts of Merchants Row in May. Our move was supposed to be temporary so that we could enjoy walking to work and enjoying the nightlife, but then eventually move to Birmingham for the schools.

But we love it down here, and we’d like to stay. Thinking long term, what’s the very best place to raise a family within 1 mile of downtown? It looks like the answer is Lafayette Park since Chrysler Elementary appears to be a great school, but I have a lot of questions about LP living. For instance:
1. Do the Mies van der Rohe units have [[private or shared) outdoor space like a patio or a yard? I really miss grilling.
2. Do the co-op corporations enforce a minimum price on the sale of units?
3. Is it possible to sublease? [[To get a feel for the neighborhood before we buy.)
4. How good is plowing in the winter? Does the co-op cover that?
5. How active are the parks, both during the day [[good) and at night [[bad)?
6. How’s Lafayette Foods? We currently go to Honeybee, but it’s a bit of a hike.
7. Do you feel safe walking at night? I have no problem with the downtown Woodward corridor at night, but it’s pretty well lit and populated.
8. How's the walk to the Ren Cen?

**Bagley** · October-06-11, 09:19 AM

1. Do the Mies van der Rohe units have [[private or shared) outdoor space like a patio or a yard? I really miss grilling.

Some units have patios but they [[in my co-op) are mandated not to make repairs to them so that they will eventually have to be taken out. Most grills are stored on the three foot deep planting area behind a unit but some units had bricks or planks added which seem to create a more patio-like feel. I just bought a range with a grill as I don't like the appearance of the grills outside. Some buildings have a concrete patio at one end where people park their grills.

2. Do the co-op corporations enforce a minimum price on the sale of units?

I don't think so but it could vary from co-op to co-op. I'm pretty sure that they could if they wanted to but who wants to chase away a buyer and have an unhappy seller as a neighbor?

3. Is it possible to sublease? [[To get a feel for the neighborhood before we buy.)

Rarely, In my co-op, we are technically only allowed to lease the unit once during our ownership.
4. How good is plowing in the winter? Does the co-op cover that?

Yes, pretty good but then I've always been disappointed at the delay in plowing city streets downtown. So our streets are done with relative expediency but good luck outside of our area.

5. How active are the parks, both during the day [[good) and at night [[bad)?

Not very active. There are a few transients who walk to the park but they don't usually cut through the private walkways. I know that I generally ask anyone I don't recognize if they need help once they set foot on a private walkway.

6. How’s Lafayette Foods? We currently go to Honeybee, but it’s a bit of a hike.

Lafayette Foods is great, very eager to carry things that we a re looking for. Honyebee still has an edge on produce and guacamole/salsa. Not really much of a hike to Honeybee on 375

7. Do you feel safe walking at night? I have no problem with the downtown Woodward corridor at night, but it’s pretty well lit and populated.

The advantage of LP is that almost no one knows we are there. I go for smoking walks very late and many neighbors jog up until 2AM. I'm not the one you want to come across if you are up to no good so I've had a couple of opportunities to escort wanderers of the property.

8. How's the walk to the Ren Cen?

Leisurely along the RiverWalk. I walked to a work meeting there one morning and it was much faster than driving and parking.

**Bagley** · October-06-11, 09:43 AM

RE #7 I feel much safer in our neighborhood than Downtown proper because there are fewer corners to turn and the people you would want to keep an eye on really stand out.

**DetroitPlanner** · October-06-11, 11:14 AM

When are your kids going to be of school age? It costs a lot to keep moving from one part of town to the other if you are going to be buying. If you move to LP there are private schools in the area, though they are fairly expensive.

Co-ops are not set-up for sub-leasing. There is little money to be made by the owner off of that type of arrangement as the montly assessments are high. Many Co-ops have subleasing barred in thier charters.

**Neilr** · October-06-11, 11:43 AM

Bagley pretty much covered your questions. I can just add a bit.
Question #1: The 1 story units [[courthouses) each have a large enclosed courtyard in the rear of the home which is planted and maintained by the individual owner. The 2 story townhouses share common areas.
Question #2: The sale price of an individual unit is pretty much determined by the market at the time. Two big factors are the location within the neighborhood and the condition of the individual unit. One of the coops, the Lafayette Coop, installed a geothermal heating/cooling system several years ago and to some prospective residents, that is a determining factor. Each of the 4 Mies van der Rohe coops sets a minimum down payment for the sale of a unit [[perhaps 10-15% down). Prospective owners' finances are also vetted by the coop boards before a sale is approved. This has greatly worked to our advantage during this period of real estate crisis.

**Jason** · October-06-11, 01:16 PM

DetroitPlanner, Chrysler Elementary is genuinely a good school, and Cass Tech is also good. idk what people there do for middle school but at the very least there are some charter schools around.

A kid growing up in Lafayette Park going to DPS would have a better education than most people in the region, which is especially impressive if you compare how affordable Lafayette Park is compared to places in the region with similar quality schools.

I think between the quality of the neighborhood, the architecture and the location, Lafayette Park is going to appeal to a lot of the affluent young people who are living in midtown or downtown now, or have yet to move to Detroit, so if the greater downtown area continues improving, I'm guessing Lafayette Park is going to get a lot more expensive, and would be a good investment.

**English** · October-06-11, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Jason

DetroitPlanner, Chrysler Elementary is genuinely a good school, and Cass Tech is also good. idk what people there do for middle school but at the very least there are some charter schools around.

A kid growing up in Lafayette Park going to DPS would have a better education than most people in the region, which is especially impressive if you compare how affordable Lafayette Park is compared to places in the region with similar quality schools.

I think between the quality of the neighborhood, the architecture and the location, Lafayette Park is going to appeal to a lot of the affluent young people who are living in midtown or downtown now, or have yet to move to Detroit, so if the greater downtown area continues improving, I'm guessing Lafayette Park is going to get a lot more expensive, and would be a good investment.

Jason, I agree. Also check out my area -- the East Riverfront and the Villages. There is a lot of building going on, including two new high schools [[DPS King High School, and a new charter science & tech academy).

**Bagley** · October-06-11, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by Jason

DetroitPlanner, Chrysler Elementary is genuinely a good school, and Cass Tech is also good. idk what people there do for middle school but at the very least there are some charter schools around.

A kid growing up in Lafayette Park going to DPS would have a better education than most people in the region, which is especially impressive if you compare how affordable Lafayette Park is compared to places in the region with similar quality schools.

I think between the quality of the neighborhood, the architecture and the location, Lafayette Park is going to appeal to a lot of the affluent young people who are living in midtown or downtown now, or have yet to move to Detroit, so if the greater downtown area continues improving, I'm guessing Lafayette Park is going to get a lot more expensive, and would be a good investment.

I would hope that some of the younger folks start moving to LP. We are not going to have children for another few years and I'd hope to have some other young couples in the neighborhood because the current wave of babies--all great, polite kids with doting parents--are probably going to be old enough to babysit ours.

It really is very idyllic and I'm hoping to look back in forty years and tell stories like these: http://vimeo.com/29583790

**Bagley** · October-06-11, 02:00 PM

Also, In our co-op, dues include basic cable [[doesn't cost much money to upgrade), taxes, water, repairs to many fixtures inside our units, H VAC filters each month, refuse removal from our back door to the curb, landscaping, tree service, window cleanings, exterior painting, security patrol, etc.

**Chinman** · October-06-11, 02:03 PM

i have a co-op in Town Square. got it cheap because of housing market. $49,000 got me a one car garage, basement, 3 beedrooms and a 12' x 20' back yard that i can do anything in.
very safe. never had any problems and i do walk almost everywhere. the dequindre cut is out my back door so i can get to the riverfront in 10min or less.
we have retired teachers, lawyers, doctors and middle class family's and it is very quiet. You can not lease but price is dictated by what the seller can get, just like a homeowner.
you should check out ones that are listed.

**Gianni** · October-06-11, 02:21 PM

Lots of toddlers in LP right now. Chrysler School is good; Detroit Waldorf in Indian Village is excellent, really one of a kind. Like Lafayette Park, Detroit Waldorf School may be Detroit's best kept secret.

**pseudo** · October-06-11, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

When are your kids going to be of school age? It costs a lot to keep moving from one part of town to the other if you are going to be buying. If you move to LP there are private schools in the area, though they are fairly expensive.
.

We actually don't have kids yet, so we're planning pretty far ahead. LP seems to be ideal in that it has the great school and TREES, but still has walk/bike-ability to our jobs and downtown entertainment. I haven't explored LP yet, but it looks like the units on Navarre have private patios. That's awesome.

**pseudo** · October-06-11, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by English

Jason, I agree. Also check out my area -- the East Riverfront and the Villages. There is a lot of building going on, including two new high schools [[DPS King High School, and a new charter science & tech academy).

We really like Indian Village, but it's not quite walkable to downtown. Same with the East Riverfront. If have to get into my car to get to work, we might as well live in Grosse Pointe.

**Neilr** · October-06-11, 04:54 PM

One of the facets of the walkability of the Mies van der Rohe coops [[and several other coops in the neighborhood) is that it was designed so that children do not have to cross any streets in order to get to the Chrysler School –.it's just a short walk down the street or through the park.

**English** · October-06-11, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by pseudo

We really like Indian Village, but it's not quite walkable to downtown. Same with the East Riverfront. If have to get into my car to get to work, we might as well live in Grosse Pointe.

Gotcha. We're at least bikeable, though, while GP isn't really...

**Neilr** · October-07-11, 07:09 AM

Originally Posted by pseudo

We actually don't have kids yet, so we're planning pretty far ahead. LP seems to be ideal in that it has the great school and TREES, but still has walk/bike-ability to our jobs and downtown entertainment. I haven't explored LP yet, but it looks like the units on Navarre have private patios. That's awesome.

The 21 townhouses on Navarre Place are unique in Lafayette Park. First off, they're condos – most of the neighborhood is coop. There are clear differences between each type and there are advantages and disadvantages to both condo and coop terms of ownership.

Secondly, they have a strong fortress appearance and [[as opposed to the Mies coops) look inward onto themselves rather than outward through glass curtain walls.

Also, they are very big! Each home has 4 bedrooms, 3 full and 2 half baths, and an attached 2-car garage. They also each have a fireplace in the living room and another in the basement rec room.

**pseudo** · October-07-11, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by Neilr

The 21 townhouses on Navarre Place are unique in Lafayette Park. First off, they're condos – most of the neighborhood is coop. There are clear differences between each type and there are advantages and disadvantages to both condo and coop terms of ownership.

Secondly, they have a strong fortress appearance and [[as opposed to the Mies coops) look inward onto themselves rather than outward through glass curtain walls.

Also, they are very big! Each home has 4 bedrooms, 3 full and 2 half baths, and an attached 2-car garage. They also each have a fireplace in the living room and another in the basement rec room.

I didn't realize the Navarre units weren't co-op. That's good to know. The patio + garage is a great draw, but then so are the glass curtain walls. I think the wife and I are going to check out an open house at a MvdR unit this weekend. We'll definitely take a stroll down Navarre as well.

Neilr, care to share your opinon on the pros/cons of co-op vs. condo?

**Gianni** · October-07-11, 01:21 PM

Many of the residents of the Mies units in LP will tell you that they are living in a work of art. This piece, from the Detroit-Berlin connection series recently on WDET, gives a hint at what it's like to live a Mies courthouse, There are only 20 of them here, and nowhere else in the world.

http://wdet.org/shows/detroit-berlin...-van-der-rohe/

P.S: biggest difference between a co-op and a condo: if you want to move into a coop, the board, made up of your hopefully future neighbors, votes on whether you can be a resident.

**Bagley** · October-07-11, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by Gianni

Many of the residents of the Mies units in LP will tell you that they are living in a work of art. This piece, from the Detroit-Berlin connection series recently on WDET, gives a hint at what it's like to live a Mies courthouse, There are only 20 of them here, and nowhere else in the world.

http://wdet.org/shows/detroit-berlin...-van-der-rohe/

P.S: biggest difference between a co-op and a condo: if you want to move into a coop, the board, made up of your hopefully future neighbors, votes on whether you can be a resident.

You would find a way to inflame my courthouse dreams. I guess the only thing I want is the sound isolation. I would miss the tree house vibe of the second floor. Wouldn't know what to do with a courtyard--though I have some ideas...

**stasu1213** · October-07-11, 06:48 PM

The chauteufort condos are worth looking into

**cycledetroit** · October-09-11, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

The chauteufort condos are worth looking into

Does anyone know the fees of chateaufort condos?

Thanks

**DetBill** · October-10-11, 11:10 AM

I had owned a Mies courthouse on Nicolet with the walled in couryard for 10 years, It was wonderful, there was tons of room as I had finished the basement and the courtyard itself was wonderful for relaxing, entertaining and gardens. I know there is a two bedroom on Nicolet that is up for sale , I know the owner and she has moved to 1300. I moved to the burbs for three years then returned to Lafayette Park in 2005 and bought a two bedroom corner unit in 1300, which I really like also, the views and safety as well as the building itself are great, There is so much to do downtown now, acecesibility to greektown, the stadiums/theaters and the riverfront cant be beat and the park is very handy . Food needs are very good between lafayette foods and eastern market, The people are very nice, Its just a great city downtown neighborhood.